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New 2.0 Tdi S-Line ECU Remap

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by Daave, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Have any of you out there remapped your new 2.0 Tdi? Having come from a string of remapped diesels I'm keen this one has its potential released so any of you that have gone down that route I'm interested to hear how you've got on!
    Im not talking a flash map or plug in box box but a professional rolling road tuner so you know exactly how your engine is reacting.

    Thanks folks!
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  3. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Not sure if your aware, but I was told by Perforance Torque who did my previous A3 2.0 TDI the only way to do a remap with the latest type of ECU is for it to be removed from the car, remapped and then re-fitted. Remapping through the diagnostic port no longer works. This could well create problems should you need anything done under warranty. I had my previous 2.0 TDI-140 remapped to around 170, but I decided with my current car to order a factory 170 for this very reason.
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  4. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Thanks h5djr!

    Will at P-torque has remapped my cars in the past and is excellent, will ring him tomorrow.
    Why would removing the ECU then replacing it afterward affect the warranty though, how would Audi know? See your reasoning but surely it could be removed and replaced without anyone knowing?

    Appreciate your help!
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  5. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    I think Audi secure the cover over the ECU with special bolts than need special tools to remove and the replacements are only available to Audi dealers and again need special tools to refit them so it would be obvious to a dealer if they had been tampered with. But if anyone can do it, I sure Will can. Id be interested to hear what he has to say as it was about 12 months ago when I spoke to him about my car.
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  6. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    The ECU can be removed from the car but the plugs are held in by a 2 piece cradle that actually prevents you from disconnecting them. This cradle is bolted together by shear bolts which can be removed by using a small pair of good mole grips on the 2-3 threads showing on the underside of the anchor nut. Just unwind the shank of the bolt and voila. Very fiddly but take your time and it can be done. The other way is to hacksaw the cradle off and throw away the cradle. Afew of my customers have requested this as didnt want the hassle.
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  7. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Will ring him in the morning and find out, have spoken to a few other tuners (I wouldn't actually go to) to get an idea if it was possible and how easy it was, but unsurprisingly most hadn't done one and a couple said it was an ECU removal job but possible. Upshot is I don't want to wait forever for a 170/180 version to come out as needed a new vehicle so it's getting remapped sooner rather than later and I'll have to take the chance no ECU linked warranty work will be voided! I'm not waiting 3 years to get the remap gains as every car I've had done in the past (Bora 150gt tdi, Alfa 147 jtd m-jet, Leon 150tdi FR) have benefitted massively from the increased power and mpg gains.
    Will keep you posted.
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  8. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Ah! Thanks Brodster that's excellent. Do you think it possible for someone competent (so not me) to conduct the remap and replace said bolts and ECU to a state Audi wouldn't notice it's been touched??
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  9. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Interestingly I have just looked at the Elsawin workshop manual and put in the data for my current 2012 2.0 TDI Sportback. It lets me look at almost everything with no problem. But when I clicked on the section for the ECU it just froze my computer. I tried it several times and each time it would not let me access that section. Perhaps it has some way of checking using the internet to see I am a dealer before it will let me continue. Personally, reading Brodster's post about what needs to be done, I think the chance of getting it all back together without a dealer being able to tell it's been opened is remote but that may be a chance you are willing to take. I must admit I've never had any engine problems with any of my eight A3s over the past 16 years.
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  10. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2013]
    The only reason I'm hesitant Dave, is because I bought a 2007 A3 2.0 Tdi just before my Leon (had it 3 days before it went back to the dealer for a full refund) as it suffered from a hot idle problem, as soon as it got warm and was the idling in traffic/at tickover it would suddenly shudder slightly and the revs would slightly blip slightly but then return to normal this would happen every 5-7 seconds and it was very noticeable in the cabin and very irritating. I scoured the t'internet and there was quite a few cars with the 2.0 tdi lump that suffered from it across the Audi range and some were very expensive fixes. Thing was it happened from new on a few so I'm guessing its just a glitch your car either suffers from or doesn't but I'll quickly know if that's the case with the new one. A friend also had problems with his 2008 2.0 tdi 170 s line that needed a new engine putting it and from speaking to a few mechanics it seems the 2.0 tdi lump isn't as robust or reliable as the old 1.9 was. Again I'm hoping they've sorted any problems now and if she behaves for the first thousand or so miles I'll get her done.
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  11. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Hi Dave,

    we have done cars such as the RS3 where we have removed the ECU and refitted with new security bolts and you would never tell. I haven't inspected the 8V chassis yet to see exactly how it's mounted. If you're not far from Manchester area you could drop in and we could have a look and advise how realistic it is to remove and replace without it being obvious. My partner is simply the best at this sort of work so if he can't do it, no one can!

    Rick
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  12. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    I suppose if there was an engine problem and it was going to be an expensive claim under warranty if Audi had any suspicions about the mapping they could always put the car on a rolling road to check if the output was more than normal. Speaking to an Audi Master Tech some month's ago he did say he had only ever been asked to do this once in his career.
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  13. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]

    Just got off the phone to Will @ P-Torque. He's done a few now and apparently the new Golf is the same -they keep the sheer bolts in stock now and it's simple enough to do without it being noticeable.
    Power up to around 195bhp and torque to 315lb/ft and the usual couple of mpg gain. All booked in! :)

    thanks for the help folks!
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  14. gemmo30
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    gemmo30 New Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Hi

    I had my old 2008 Audi A3 sline 2litre TDI re-mapped as the DPF was driving me up the wall! I moved closer to my place of work so i wasnt getting the car hot enough to burn all the rubbish off, so the light kept coming up cue a 30minute round trip onto the M6 until it cleared!
    Had the re-map, it cost about £250 and it put the BHP up to about 205 and slightly improved economy, but better still that bloody light didnt pop up every week!! I only had it a few months with the re-map before i brought the RS3 and sold the A3 privately, but yes from what i got from it it was well worth doing!!
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  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Good I'm glad Will can help. The A3, Golf, Octavia and the Leon all have exactly the same engines. It's only some of other bits that are different. Who makes which engine is determined by the type of engine rather than the car it is going to be fitted. All of one type are made by Audi and all of another type are made by Skoda and so on and supplied to the others to fit in their relevant cars.
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  16. hittchy
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    hittchy Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    That's quite a significant hike in power. I was expecting in the region of 35bhp.

    Any idea on price?
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  17. squiretolley
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    squiretolley Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Would you mind divulging how much it's going to cost?

    I really wanted to hold out for the 181bhp diesel, but couldn't wait any longer. I reckon 195bhp will easily give you sub 7 secs 0-60...not too shabby at all!!
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  18. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    We would charge £400 on this car to give you an idea. I "personally" think that 195 is optimistic with the DPF still on.

    Rick
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  19. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    I have done a lot of research into this subject with quite a few well known tuners. I would like to add one has told me they can map it through the obd port to approx 180 bhp. Another tuner In the midlands has told me they can give me a handheld module to return the car back to standard when I want to which again would be tuning through the obd port, revo have told me they can remap it and it would be totally invisible unless logged or driven / dyno'd .

    Now all I want is a power figure of around 170-180 bhp, I'm not after maxing the cars turbo or hardware capabilities I just want a little but more.......

    I have always wanted to ask a main dealer to prove though if a fault was to occur that it is the remap at fault !

    Sean
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  20. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    Are you sure they are talking about the very lastest type of ECU used by Audi/VW and others. Remapping using the OBD port was always the standard way of doing it and you could be provided with a unit to set it back to standard. But the lastest ECU's have built-in encryption which stops it's code being accessed through the ODB port, hence the need to remove the ECU from the car.

    As far as a dealer needing to prove that a fault was the result of any remap, they wouldn't need to. Playing with any of the engine mapping would automatically void any warranty and they would just say no to doing any work under warranty if they suspected a remap. They would always have the upper hand because you would be the one trying to get them to do the work under warranty for no cost to you and if a remap was suspected and tested, Audi would fully back the dealer.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  21. hittchy
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    hittchy Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    Maybe this is the case with your dealer, but I'm afraid this isn't always the case. Some dealers are 'remap friendly'. When I mapped my TT years ago, the dealer knew all about it and we're fine about all warranty work. In fact, they offered to map some of my later cars for me resulting in an Audi Dealer invoice for it.

    Granted it creates a 'grey area', but they'd be on really thin ice to try and reject a totally unrelated claim. For example, if your alloy wheels 'flake' that can't be anything to do with a remap. That'd be an interesting test case.

    It's a little like having your car serviced by an independent..... does that void your warranty? Dealers used to try it on all the time prior to the European Block Exemption in 2003.
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  22. hittchy
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    hittchy Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    It's pretty unlikely to occur. Main engine components like pistons, rings or turbo and gearbox, clutch or DMF failures are the only ones likely to attract their attention. If your climate control packs up or your windscreen leaks they won't even bother arguing unless you've got a petty dealer.

    I think the onus of responsibility would be on the claimant though - e.g. if your DSG box failed and you had a remap, you'd have to prove it wasn't related with independent engineer reports.
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  23. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    Yes I agree. My dealer is 'remap' friendly as well, offering to get my previous A3 done for me, but I was just stating the worst case scenario. It can depend on how well you know the dealer and they you. I think a non-remap friendly dealer could argue if the problem was almost anything to do with the engine, but not a problem with the wheels as your example. Not really something I personally would want to risk unless I already knew my dealer's attitude.

    Apart from the problem of remapping the latest ECU, especially 12 months ago, when a lot less was known about them, I decided to go for a factory 170 rather than my previous remapped 140 as much as anything because of insurance. My present insurance company recently quoted online for a renewal on my existing car but quoted for a 140. When I checked with them on the phone they only wanted another £10 because it was a 170. When I asked, out of interest, about a remapped car, they said they would not insure one at all.
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  24. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    H5 djr, yes iam sure! I wouldn't have posted otherwise! I am simply passing on what others have told me and I forgot to add for a laugh check out how dtuk propose to do it. DTUK tuning

    Also Audi do offer an ABT remap on all new audis new 8v priced at £1348, (ABT website) so they are aware of remaps and warranty is offered at that but there figure was only plus 20bhp on our car iirc.

    The 2.0 tdi can be mapped, and mine will be regardless of warranty or anything else as it's my car , and I will do what I want with it not what the shop that sold it me want me to do with it ( efffing dictatorship world) lol

    Sean
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  25. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    It's your car and you can do want ever you want with it. All I am saying is that, if you were to get a problem with the engine during the warranty period, the dealer MAY not be prepared to do anything about it if the car has been remapped. If you are happy with that then there is no problem at all. But just be aware it could happen.
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  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    I have just had a look at the DTUK website and it appears that they sell plug-in boxes rather than actually remapping the existing ECU so they do not have to do any recoding.

    The original poster said he did not want a "plug-in box but a professional rolling road tuner" and that is what he has booked his car in for at Performance Torque in Wolverhampton, which is the same place I had my previous A3-140 car remapped.

    Personally I have no experince one way or the other with these plug-in boxes. Has anyone else?

    ABT are an Audi approved tuning house that work in conjunction with Audi and have access to most of their data.
    #25
  27. squiretolley
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    squiretolley Active Member

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    [Mar 6, 2013]
    I'm considering a remap when I get my Sportback, but would be good to have the option to restore it to factory settings when required, so the handheld module would be a good option for me.

    What's the general consensus on them? I know most will say go for a rolling road remap, but surely the like's of Superchips Bluefin device is good quality?

    However, even with a handheld module I would have thought it'll leave an imprint and Audi would be able to spot it when running a diagnostic check?
    #26
  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 6, 2013]
    Yes it would be if it comes from Superchips, but looking at the Superchips site for an A3 2011 onwards the car has to be taken to a dealer to be 'bluefin enabled' which almost certainly means the removal of the ECU, the code encryption removed so that the bluefin system can then change the settings. Once the encryption has been removed it would be obvious to any dealer than the ECU had been tampered with as soon as they connected it to their diagnostic equipment. The same would then apply and the dealer could if they chose to, refuse to do any work under warranty that involved the engine and possibly the clutch and gearbox. They may be happy to ignore the remap but you do run that risk.
    #27
  29. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 6, 2013]
    Removing the ECU and unlocking it isn't detectable as such because this part of the ECU isn't accessible over OBD as such.

    Regarding remapping the ECU without first removing it, there is one way it can be done but the actual maps that go on cannot be changed in any way as they are "signed" by the factory. It's something I've looked into providing, but I am a little reluctant as I cannot control the content in the same way I can when I write a map.

    Rick
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  30. squiretolley
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    squiretolley Active Member

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    [Mar 6, 2013]
    What's everyone's thoughts on the DTUK box?
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  31. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 6, 2013]
    I wouldn't touch a dtuk type box, but that's just me.

    I would let rick @ unicorn , or a couple of others I've spoken to have a play with my cars ecu. It's an Audi after all and I'm not expecting anything to go wrong with it remap or not. If it does then tuff titty I'll have to pay for it not the warranty.

    Sean
    #30
  32. frenchy2475
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    frenchy2475 Tetbury Audi Parts Man

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    [Mar 9, 2013]
    Audi dealers can tell when cars have been mapped,trust me.
    :sly:
    Its also worth noting that if you ever have to have a software update it will overwrite the map.

    If you dont want the software update then the customer has to sign a waiver form which goes on record.

    The main dealers which are so called 'mapping friendly' will warranty in house as it were. They wont put claims through Audi UK (well not that they will admit they do.wink wink). Audi UK state that if a part has failed that can be contributed to map then it wont be covered, which has been stated many times before.
    #31
  33. Glynny92
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    Glynny92 New Member

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    [Mar 10, 2013]
    I also want to get mine remapped when it arrives, i've ordered a 2.0 TDI Sportback, does anyone know anywhere within Yorkshire that can be trusted to do a good job? pretty new to remapping
    #32
  34. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]

    Im still on standard power and really gutted as after 7 1/2 months of standard power I'm really climbing the walls but STILL no one is able to read the new style ECU's! DTUK box I REALLY wanted to avoid, I want a full DPF removal and remap but looks like I'll be waiting a while until someone from Bosch leak the workarounds!

    Starting to wish I'd gone for a nearly new 2.0 Tdi S-line 170 on a 12 plate as could have had that done straight away! :-(
    #33
  35. outlaw7
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    outlaw7 Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]
    Daave is it really that bad without a map?
    #34
  36. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]
    When you've driven a remapped diesel running 200bhp and 300lb/ft that pulls like a train from 1300 revs, this feels flat as frig and really slow! It's ok when over 3500rpm but even then its feels really restricted and sluggish in the power department. Everything else about the car is awesome its just needs releasing from the factory settings!
    #35
  37. outlaw7
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    outlaw7 Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]
    I'm hoping mine feels like a rocket ship coming from a 115 bhp ford focus hire car!
    #36
  38. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]
    It will coming from that and don't get me wrong its a beautifully built car that does everything I want it to. Doesn't help I drive a variety of higher powered Audi's on occasions and against a new A4 3.0tdi it feels like a snail so a hike to 215bhp / 315lb/ft that this lump could produce with a DPF removal and remap would put the smile back properly on my face!


    You'll love the car and don't let unsatisfied types like me put you off as its great!
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  39. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    Whatever speed you have you get used to it in 2 weeks and always want more. The 2.0TDI is fine for me - overtakes effortlessly, plenty of grunt there. Trouble with some higher powered cars is you barely ever get to use them if you drive on busy roads, in the city, and even on an empty dual carriageway you get up to speed and then the sitting there is exactly the same! I can understand it if you regularly take your car on track days, or regularly drive down twisty roads faster than you probably should... but for me, as long as it has enough power to safely overtake and perform normal driving without putting loads of effort in, it's fine! I think you'll love it :) I came from a 117bhp petrol and the difference is hugely noticeable.
    #38
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  40. Daveotto
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    Daveotto Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    Daave- if you hate it that much sell/trade it for a 12plate 170bhp
    #39
  41. Daave
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    Daave New Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    I considered that but the running costs of the new one are far lower and it would feel like I'm going backwards - think I'll wait another few weeks then buy the plug in box and settle for 180bhp.
    #40

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