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Neuspeed Porsche Brake Kit

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by JamS3, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. monty77
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    monty77 Member

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    [Jan 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Why is that only on 1 EURO?
    Would this fit?
    What else would you need? IS it the full kit?

    Anyone SPeak German!?!?!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You need caliper spacers and hose mounting clips too, can't see them in the pic.

    A
    #41
  2. robthehungrymonkey
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    robthehungrymonkey Member

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    [Jan 26, 2005]
    Does anyone know what callipers the ECS/neuspeed kit uses? Is it Boxster S ones?
    Would it be possible to buy these callipers seperately (cheaper than GT3 ones - obviously) and use them?
    #42
  3. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 26, 2005]
    They look like standard boxster ones!
    #43
  4. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jan 26, 2005]
    @rob, Rich is right, I bought the 996 calipers and am now having to find suitable discs. ECS won't sell them seperately and I need to see 996 discs to see if they can be modified to accept bells. Then do the development work to mount the disc, then mount the caliper to suit the disc. With ECSs kit it's all done for you, no hassle (and no major f**k ups). Pound-dollar thing is quite good again or just try and barter Rich a bit. Kinda wish I'd gone that route now. This way though I haven't spent a big lump out in one go. Just haven't got my brakes yet.

    Chris.
    #44
  5. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 27, 2005]
    I think the Movit discs are machined etc before the disks are hardened which makes them less likely to fracture. I think you will find it difficult to machine Porsche ready for use discs retrospectively.
    #45
  6. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jan 27, 2005]
    I'd say that hardening them after machining could potentially cause distortion due to the high temperatures involved. These discs are ground to hundreths of millimetes, you definitely do not want to be hardening them after grinding. The only way they could be very hard was if the cast material was of a hard construction as it was cast. It is possible to machine the hardest of tool steels. Hard cast should not be a problem ( ceramic tips, carbide drills, etc.). I have machined discs in the past that have a hard surface due to use on the car, hard on the surface but back to soft cast below.

    Chris.
    #46
  7. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 27, 2005]
    cryotreating is effective, but after reading up on it, they do say that any finishing work MUST be done AFTER the treatment.

    Rich
    #47
  8. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jan 27, 2005]
    Deep Cryogenics get a small percentage increase in hardness too (about 3%). On a cast product this wouldn't be sufficient to make it unmachinable. Could probably cut it with carbide tips. Nervus, I think you may be right about the Movit discs. I have heard about discs being cryogenically treated. Some say no dimensional change, some as Rich says, say machine after the process. Going quite deep here aren't we.

    Chris.
    #48
  9. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 27, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    @ EssThree, I know they are one piece discs but from looking at pictures of the 330mm GT3 discs it looks as though there is a flat portion about 5-6mm thick which would be sufficient for me to machine off the integral bell and drill bell mounting holes on a PCD.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I see what you are getting at...
    But there is absolutely no way I'd be even considering machining a disk to accept a mounting bell, when the disk was not designed for that sort of loading...I just wouldn't expect the disk to be strong enough to accept all the mounting holes and the re-distribution of braking forces onto the machined section - not to mention all the holes you'd have just drilled!

    Surely a better solution is to go to Alcon, AP or similar and just buy a rotor to suit, and have a bell made...the bell needs no real strength - as proved by the fact that they are aluminium...the rotor however, does need strength.

    You should be able to get a proprietary rotor off the shelf from one of the brake majors.

    I'd also avoid unknown or 'cheap' disks...stick with the quality stuff where you can be assured of a quality metal for the rotor casting.
    #49
  10. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Jan 28, 2005]
    @ EssThree, know what you mean about just buying good quality discs. Have a look at the discs on Movits site. They take what looks like a Porsche disc( same vane and hole design) and machine the integral bell off, drill 8 or 10 holes on a PCD. The forces acting on this portion of the disc do not change whether there is an integral bell or an aluminium seperate one. Godspeed brakes have been doing this for twenty or so years. No failures or complaints. If its good enough for Movit, Godspeed and Hi-spec then its ok by me. With regards to the forces on that part of the disc, hypothetically, if the disc was running fractionally (0.5mm) off centre in relation to the caliper,you would have cross forces pushing in the direction of pad movement. This would occur with one or two piece discs. I understand your reservations about the strength of the disc post machining, but the strength is the same. The purpose of the integral bell is to mount and locate the rotor. Have a look at the movit discs. See what you think.

    Chris.
    #50
  11. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 28, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    @ EssThree, know what you mean about just buying good quality discs. Have a look at the discs on Movits site. They take what looks like a Porsche disc( same vane and hole design) and machine the integral bell off, drill 8 or 10 holes on a PCD


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought these used genuine Porsche discs...from a 993 Turbo, which are 2 pc rotor and bell type discs anyway.
    That would explain the similarity in looks.
    Rich's ECS stuff uses Porsche rotors in thier kits...


    [ QUOTE ]

    The forces acting on this portion of the disc do not change whether there is an integral bell or an aluminium seperate one.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You simply cannot go drilling multiple holes in a peice of metal that has been designed as a single piece disc, and expect it to be as strong.
    I'm just not having it...

    Over many years I've broken (cracked) many discs on the track, and there is NO WAY I would ever consider running a hacked about disc as a rotor.
    I am personally very hard on brakes...and I wouldn't risk my life on a modified piece of braking equipment like that...but, each to their own.

    I just don't see the need, when you can buy a safe, properly designed off the shelf product from Porsche, Brembo, AP, Alcon etc...

    As for the forces...they are still there.
    As you hit the brakes the rotational force is transferred into the hub via the strength of the disc.
    If you drill 8 or 10 extra holes in the section of disc just inside the friction surface, and mount a bell on here...you have just added 8 - 10 weak spots...hit the brakes hard with sticky tyres and aggressive brake pads...and where do the forces go?
    Through the disc and towards the hub...add high temperatures and bumps / vibration...and I wouldn't put my life on the strength of the set-up.
    I would only trust a properly designed rotor for this type of application.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Godspeed brakes have been doing this for twenty or so years. No failures or complaints.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    They have?
    I'm amazed...

    Their website suggests they have suitable rotors made for them...correctly disigned rotors, not machined 1pc discs.


    [ QUOTE ]

    If its good enough for Movit, Godspeed and Hi-spec then its ok by me.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    As I said, I thought Movit used Porsche rotors designed for 2 pc applications.

    I also thought this was the case with Hi-Spec..I thought they used a rotor designed for 2pc use....the facts on thier website suggest this.

    What makes you think they are machined 1pc discs that they sell as rotors?
    To me, it looks obvious that they are dedicated rotors.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I understand your reservations about the strength of the disc post machining, but the strength is the same. The purpose of the integral bell is to mount and locate the rotor. Have a look at the movit discs. See what you think.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The strength is not the same...the discs resistance to shear forces is reduced as you have drilled 8 to 10 extra holes in it, in order to mount the disc...not to mention what the heat of machining has done to the granular structure of a heat treated disc!
    The purpose of the bell is indeed to locate the disc, but also to transmit force from the friction material, through the disc and into the hub / drivetrain...through 8-10 weak spots if you modify a standard 1pc disc.

    The issue I have is not the use of 2pc discs...it's the modification required (and associated loss of strength) to get discs not designed at 2pc rotors to act as such.
    #51

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