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NEED TURBO - 04 A4 1.8t 190

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by jamichelle, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 11, 2009]
    Hi there, i have just found out that the bearings have gone in my turbo. I have been looking at the option of upgrading from the 190 to the 240. Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this and maybe some advice of where to get one from? Any help or advice is more than welcome as i am a little lost :think:. Please help!

    Thanks
    #1
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  3. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 11, 2009]
    240? Explain yourself.
    #2
  4. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 11, 2009]
    hi there, what i meant was that the turbo i have on my is the standard one at 190 bhp but i have seen upgrades for 240, is this the KO4 turbo? If this is wrong could you correct me please? Also, in addition to this turbo, would i need to change or upgrade anything else along with it, ie injectors, induction kit, manifold or other? Thanks this would be a massive help!
    #3
  5. s-line stu
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    s-line stu Member

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    [Apr 11, 2009]
    Just out of interest how many miles had you done as mine went about 4 months ago at 29K and I too have a 190bhp 1.8T.
    I just had a like for like replacement from a reputable mechanic at £650 fitted (Audi wanted £800). He told me that although it's a KO3 there are many variations of the KO3 and ours is not the same as the one fitted to the 150/163bhp cars. He said the oil feed pipe tends to get blocked which can cause failure and recommended that this be changed as well (included in his price) which I'd heard from other people too so whichever you end up going for I'd get the oil feed pipe replaced.
    Anyway to get back to your original question, this may help which I found on another forum when I was looking for a replacement for mine:

    The Question

    Can the K03 turbo (5303 988 0011 or 5303 988 0053) be directly replaced by the
    K03S (5303 988 0052 or 5303 988 0026) in terms of the intake and exhaust housing
    dimensions?

    Is K03S the correct designation for the latter turbo mentioned above?

    Obviously if a K03S was fitted an engine map could be changed to suit, but would
    a standard turbo map for the K03 be suitable for running a K03S on?
    or would a loss of power be expected? and are the characteristics of the two
    very similar?

    I hope you can assist with the above and any information you could supply would
    be gratefully accepted.

    It's taken me a couple of weeks to get a response, but the response was well
    worth it, I think y?u'll agree.



    The Answer

    Dear Sir,

    thank you for your interest in our products.

    First of all, we don't produce any turbo that we call K03S. But I hope I can
    answer your questions with the following explanations.

    All the following turbos have the same installation dimensions and
    thermodynamical performance. The differences are only in the actuator that
    opens the turbine bypass valve:
    K03-011 (5303 988 0011) 150 hp, 65 N actuator
    K03-026 180 hp, 85 N actuator
    K03-035 180 hp, 85 N actuator
    K03-044 150 hp, 65 N actuator
    K03-045 156 hp (Ibiza Cupra), 85 N actuator with 2 ports
    K03-049 150 hp (Sharan/Alhambra), 65 N actuator
    The 180 hp versions have an actuator with a higher opening force due to the
    higher exhaust gas pressure (which is a consequence of the higher boost
    pressure). Otherwise the valve would be pushed open by the exhaust gas
    pressure.

    The following turbos are a further development (since 2000) and have an
    improved and slightly larger compressor while using the same turbine (still
    with the same installation dimensions):
    K03-052 180 hp, 85 N actuator
    K03-053 150 hp, 85 N actuator
    K03-058 150 hp/180 hp, 85 N actuator

    Consequentially, putting a 180 hp turbo on a 150 hp engine will not bring
    about any change in performance, but putting on a K03-052/053/058 instead of
    the older versions will bring a slight improvement in engine efficiency.
    Additionally, with re-mapping the ECU you can achieve about 215 hp without
    danger of overspeeding the turbo. With the older turbos, 195 hp is the
    limit.

    With the K04 that's also commonly used (5304 950 0001) the power output
    should not be more than 220 hp. That means, changing a K03-052/053/058
    against a K04 does not make a lot of sense.
    I hope that these details answer your questions. If you need more info, one
    of our service distributors will be glad to help you. Their addresses are on
    our website
    www.turbodriven.com.

    Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Best regards,
    BorgWarner Turbo Systems GmbH


    And a post ....

    I've had a K03, K04 and K03S and the above comments just don't ring true. I don't want to get into the BHP numbers achieved other than to ask if the figures quoted are flywheel or wheel figures as most US tuners tend to only quote WHP.

    The K03 and K04 are dated weak turbos in comparison to the K03S. The K04 can move more air than K03S at the same pressure, however the K03S is considerably stronger so can run higher levels of boost. From what I have seen comparing BHP figures there is usually only around 5bhp difference in peak power between the K03S and K04. The big difference is the K03S' stronger midrange and much higher torque. If the two turbo's rolling road graph's were compared the following would be observed:

    K03S - Torque comes in early and with a big spike, holds well in the midrange but drops off towards the end. This is reflected in the power with a steep rise but flatenning earlier.

    K04 - Torque comes in later due to later spool up, spike isn't has high but torque is flat and holds upto the higher revs. Power is more uniform upto the high revs.

    The end result is peak power is about the same for both, they just get there in different ways.
    #4
  6. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    hi there,

    thanks for the reply they are an interesting read but i think i am now a little bit more confused :(. I have read mixed reviews about what turbo should be achieving what, for example some are saying that the upgrade on the ko3s (the ko4 i believe) is only getting an extra 10hp and this is not worth the aggro? Is this true because i have read that if i upgrade the turbo and remap i can achieve 240hp or higher with more torque? Can you clarify on this for me please? I mean if im taking the taking out to replace it anyway, and the upgraded turbo is going to give me a noticeably bigger output then i might as well pay for it. Thanks alot!
    #5
  7. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    sorry stu, also to answer your question my clocks are showing about 90k miles so its had a good life! If i can transform the car and give it 240+hp this would be immense! Thanks
    #6
  8. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    IMO For what gains you are going to get between the 2 then you may aswell just stick to standard turbo replacement & stick a FMIC in there with a few added Mods (decent remap also)!!!
    #7
  9. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    hi there thanks for that. So you are suggesting that i swap like for like my standard turbo? Also could you tell me FMIC means? Im a little green when it comes to these kind of things! Thanks.
    #8
  10. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    Front Mounted Inter Cooler ;)
    #9
  11. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    thanks for that! I have found this turbo: GT2860R turbo from garret, has anyone heard of this? is it possible to use this turbo with my car and if so what else would i have to change to accomodate it? Thanks
    #10
  12. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    When you start to think about upgrading to a Bigger turbo there comes the Bit n Bobs you need to upgrade such as Injectors etc. Unless you are looking for a massive increase such as 280bhp+ then yeah go for it but it gets so expensive. I was looking into it last year but due to the economy i chose to save my pennies.

    Your looking at 240bhp from you 190 edition, keeping the same type turbo with some subtle engine mods like TT injectors/FMIC a Custom remap then you can come close to the figure you want. Its not just BHP you want to be looking at, its the Imortant Torque...

    Check out BUBSTER's spec, he's running a good figure with both BHP & Torque with some good Mods.
    The Gt28 is capable of some massive gains and paying what you would pay for a brand spanker is going to waste IMO 'unless' like I said - You are going for a Massive increase in Power. If it was me, having the GT would be pointless unless you are going to take it a level higher - again, becomes quite expensive. If you dont mind spending a couple of Grand then go for it.
    Its not just about geting a bigger turbo tand thats it - its about having a Clutch that can take the power & then it comes to the Brakes, after all you want to have decent brakes to stop you from all that power hey!!!

    Id stick with the same type turbo, get a uprated Turbo Pipe, add a FMIC (as they can be done pretty cheap) and get a decent Diverter valve (recirculating) and get a Good map on there (somewhere thats into Custom mapping) and away you go.

    ...oh and get a decent Exhaust, milltek maybe.

    Which ever way you look at it, to acheive your figure, you will still have to spend a few quid for decent materials!;)
    #11
  13. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    #12
  14. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    thanks for that nice one that is a great help!
    #13
  15. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    No probs, thats what we're here for!:arco:
    #14
  16. bubstar
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    bubstar Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    What Juss said!

    Just stick to standard or the K04 if you can get one for a good price.

    230+BHP and (as said) more importantly 250+lbft with 35+mpg on the motorway. :thumbsup:

    Once you start bolting on Garret bus turbos you're into big bucks and issues. The car no longer becomes a daily driver or you have to give it a lot of TLC and spannering.

    :beerchug:
    #15
  17. s-line stu
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    s-line stu Member

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    Hi Jamichelle,

    I would go with the advice from J7USS and BUBSTAR as I think they have a far better knowledge of tuning than I do as I am just running the standard turbo and a stage 1 remap and am happy with that.

    I know what you mean about the other forum post that I quoted being a bit confusing, it just seemed that the conclusion was that there isn't much gain in upgrading to the KO4 (unless you do other mods too).

    May be worth talking to a tuning company to get their take on what can be done - not sure where your based but I used Midland VW at Cannock for my remap and they were very helpful with advice before I went ahead and have a good knowledge of tuning Audi's.

    If you did want to contact them email Jody at Midlandvw@aol.com just explaining what your thinking of to get his advice and a rough idea on cost. Their website is http://www.midlandvw.co.uk/home.html
    #16
  18. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Apr 12, 2009]
    What Stu said - I can say also that MidlandVW is a good recommendation, I know a few Golf Heads that have had their Tuning done by these boys and defo top notch service.:o.k:
    #17
  19. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 13, 2009]
    thank you all for your help. ringing few places tomo will let you know how i get on!!
    #18
  20. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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  21. jase0851
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    jase0851 Member

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    [Apr 14, 2009]
    i wouldnt bother with the front mount intercooler as the 190 has 2 intercoolers already and you would get no gains at all from a front mount
    get a ko4-15 i think thats the designation of the turbo which is slightly better than the ko3s
    #20
  22. jamichelle
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    jamichelle New Member

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    [Apr 18, 2009]
    guys fitted the standard turbo now have white smoke bellowing out the exhaust???? HELP!!! can it get any worse?
    #21

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