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My Shark Stage 1 and DSG remap experiences! lol.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by RPB, May 9, 2012.

  1. Paullie
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    Paullie Banana Menace!

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    [May 16, 2012]
    Hi Andy, of course I'll keep you in the loop with regards to the logging/tweaks etc. :icon_thumright:

    Yes, I totally agree. Shark have shown that they are just as determined to get to the root cause of our issues with the software as we as customers are in having these issues addressed. As Ben said earlier in the thread, with Shark you're not just buying a product, but by choosing them you are buying a service and that is SO important these days. They have acted very quickly in this instance and I for one will definitely be standing by them for my future tuning.


    Apart from changing the shift points, the DSG TCU software also raises the torque limiter to around 500nm, IIRC, ..not that I'll EVER get it anywhere near to that figure, lol. I don't drive my car that hard TBH, but I do like it to be running very smoothly and that's exactly what I've got now and it's cool!! The TCU software also gives you improved launch control, but that's not something I've ever used or am likely to use. RPB did get some very noticeable gains after his TCU remapping was done, ..above what the DSG 'tweak' alone would offer. I'm going to give the car some adaptation time to see how it ultimately feels and then in a month or 2 decide what to do TCU map wise. :wub: xx
    #81
    RPB likes this.
  2. 3.2 Ju
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    3.2 Ju Well-Known Member

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    [May 16, 2012]
    Regards the tailpipes, I noticed mine sooting up when it was standard. Post remap its just the same tbh so I would say it's normal and nothing to worry about.
    Got to admit as an APR customer, I am impressed with the way Shark have addressed the issue and got it sorted for you guys (I'm sure those still waiting will also get sorted), although a little clarity in the beginning wouldn't have gone amiss:thumbup:
    #82
  3. andywaddy
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    andywaddy Member

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    [May 16, 2012]
    Thanks very much Paullie! Appreciated :)

    So what torque would you say you're running now approx...400Nm?
    Whilst I am happy with the revised map I am unsure of whether or not to take a trip to HQ and get the proper DSG TCU map done. I'm happy with the change points in D already but if the TCU map can increase torque/power then I'm all for it. I just cannot say no when more power is on the table!
    Would you say we are losing a substantial amount of gain with the 'patch' over the actual DSG TCU map? Would they really be a world apart i.e. notice a BIG difference? Apologies for the twenty questions by the way! Lol.
    #83
  4. Paullie
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    Paullie Banana Menace!

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    [May 16, 2012]
    Lol, no probs :) With regard to the actual torque, it was explained to me by Mikko that although on VCDS/Liquid Gauge the torque would appear to be lower than it actually is - thanks to the DSG 'patch' or tweak - but that I would be able to feel it on the road. So yes, my Liquid Gauge is showing a max of 280 lb/ft, but I can feel it is WAY more punchy than previously. For sure Andy I can't say figure wise and I didn't actually do any BHP runs yesterday when I was out (traffic too heavy) unfortunately, but at Stage 1, RPB gained around 40BHP and 50lb/ft of torque with the DSG TCU mapping, so with my car being at Stage 2, I imagine it's going to be a lot closer to the quoted 330BHP and probs about 300lb/ft, which is around 400nm. The TCU remap is probably well worth it if you can't resist the 'lure of some extra BHP'. I will ask Mikko to make sense of the logs I produce for him at the weekend and we might get more accurate figures.

    Here's what Mikko told me the other day (he was replying to my email as Ben is off work just now and I really don't think there are many other people available at Shark apart from Ben and Mikko who are conversant with the ins and outs of remapping). Here's the first email that Mikko sent me on Monday :wub: xx


    Hi Paula,
    Ben is off work at the moment, I'm Mikko, the technical director at Shark Performance and I've been working on this issue lately.

    The problem is the torque limitation inside the DSG control unit. When the ECU calculates that its torque output is 370Nm, the DSG gearbox sends a torque reduction request to the ECU.

    There are two ways to get around this problem. One is to scale down the torque value ECU is showing, other is to remap the DSG controller as well.

    Reprogramming the DSG has other added benefits as well. The force upshift rpm is set to 6700rpm (where DSG will upshift even when you're in manual mode), this cannot be bypassed without a DSG remap. Also our DSG remap has slightly altered shiftpoints when car is in D, so the car wont try to be in 6th gear at 30mph and 1300rpms.

    Other tuners have used this scaling method for a while. Its not ideal, since the DSG wont see the correct torque value but a downscaled one, and can sometimes use less clutch clamping pressure than it should.
    When we developed the S3 remap for S-tronic, we and the first customers thought the gains are good and clearly noticeable, but lately we've heard that our customers have been underwhelmed by the gains. Due to this feedback, we have now added this "patch" to our S3 S-tronic engine software. If I can have your cars registration number, I'll send you the revised software for your STS unit.

    Please note, that your OBD scantool will show a smaller torque figure after this software is installed. It gets the value from cars diagnostics port, using the calculated torque from the ECU. This is the same value thats used by the DSG controller. I'm sure you can feel the difference on the road.
    I highly recommend having a DSG software installed when you go Stage 3, the gearbox still upshifts at 6700 no matter what you do without it, and a stage 3 car easily produces more power up to about 7200rpm. We've done alot of testing with a Stage 3 Golf R (same engine and gearbox as the S3), and the gearbox map made a huge difference on the overall driveability of the car.

    We're constantly working to improve our products, and customer feedback is highly important to us. I hope you accept my apologies for any inconvinience caused, and if you have any more questions, dont hesitate to ask.

    Regards,

    Mikko Tuomi

    Technical Director

    Shark Performance


    #84
  5. RPB
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    RPB Active Member

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    [May 16, 2012]
    Andywaddy - it's a hard decision for you to go DSG map or not. I did not have the ecu patch done so cannot compare that. I can say the DSG map made a big difference to the torque in my car as well as bhp.

    Paulie - if u can wait I think u are right to let your car adapt to the new map and see what you then feel before u get the DSG map done. This is where it gets hard for you. You may well be happy with how your car is, but you'll know the DSG map could be done and may give gains too. Lol. Oh the nightmare of modding!

    Im still glad I went to Shark and am loving the car.

    Rich.
    #85
  6. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 17, 2012]
    Im glad your getting the revised patch for the DSG on the yellow peril Paullie. 100% customer satisfaction is what Shark Performance and their dealers strive for regardless of how long it takes.....:icon_thumright:
    #86
  7. andywaddy
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    andywaddy Member

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    [May 17, 2012]
    I'm going to see what the results are from the RR day on Saturday and go from there really. I think that's the suitable way forward at the minute.

    Also going to do some 3rd gear logs like Paullie to send to Mikko to see if anything needs a tweak. I'll keep you updated on Saturdays findings...should make for interesting reading.

    I should reiterate that I am by no means disappointed with the revised patch...it's just I, like many on here, seek more of the good stuff! Chasing the dragon as they say!

    Andy
    #87
  8. RPB
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    RPB Active Member

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    [May 17, 2012]
    You folks talking about logging, etc, what does that involve?
    #88
  9. Juicy Jen
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    Juicy Jen <span style="color: orange">Jen – Juicy Detailin Site Sponsor

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    [May 17, 2012]
    Anybody got Stage 2 with Shark on a manual?
    #89
  10. shark_90
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    shark_90 Member

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    [May 17, 2012]
    Actually, yes, Rob went home sick on Tuesday and was off yesterday. Your email will be in his inbox and will be replied to as soon as possible.
    #90
  11. mjr901
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    mjr901 S3 Pollution Plus+ Edition

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    [May 17, 2012]
    ahhhh Right! that would explain alot! :) get well soon!
    #91
  12. Paullie
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    Paullie Banana Menace!

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    [May 17, 2012]
    It just involves plugging in the VCDS cable, going in to the Engine module, choosing a few specific measuring 'blocks' and starting VCDS log the info when driving in 3rd gear, from around 1500RPM until the redline, allowing Mikko to see exactly what's happening with the engine management. I don't really understand much about it myself, but I have received very good instructions from the mapping man himself on exactly what I have to do :laugh: xx
    #92
  13. RPB
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    RPB Active Member

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    [May 17, 2012]
    See! Look what we've started since I went Shark! Lol. I'm glad we are all getting sorted though.
    #93
  14. Paullie
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    Paullie Banana Menace!

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    [May 18, 2012]
    Lol, yeah, see what YOU started :laugh:. TBH I'm so glad you did start the thread, RPB. Along with the guys at Shark, you've helped us no end in getting exactly what we want out of our cars. Your advice to wait and let my ECU adapt to the new map is something I'm definitely happy to follow, it's pretty much like night and day compared to what it was like before the DSG 'patch' and it's getting better with each drive. Thanks again, Fella! :wub: xx
    #94
  15. Gandy
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    Gandy Member

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    [May 21, 2012]
    I had my 2011 S3 SB Manual stage 1 shark mapped via STS last week after reading this thread and others. So far my impressions have been good. The 0-60 time has definitely fallen as I don't need to change up to 3rd gear. The other two noticeable differences are the higher rev limit (haven't found it yet) and also the extra torque between about 70-110mph (tested on an airfield). I reset the trip computer when I installed the map which had recorded 26.2mpg over 7,700 miles on the default map. I will repost after a few more thousand miles to see if there is any difference with stage 1.

    For me the other options were Bluefin or Revo. Bluefin was cheaper but faceless, and Revo looked good but was costly in comparison for a similar result. The only slight upside on the Revo seemed to be the fact that I could mess with the map settings via the handheld device which I can't be bothered with so added no value to me. Shark seems like a good mid point between the two.

    Thanks to Graeme at GNJ.
    #95
  16. Scott
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    Scott Well-Known Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    I would like to add my two penneth. I had my Golf GTI mapped by a Shark dealer who's service was excellent. It was mapped at my house. However, a few days later I noticed a cold hesistation issue. I also had it dyno'd at Midland VW and we noticed a dip at around 5,000 rpm which was noticeable when driving. I contacted Shark and they invited me to visit one day and have the car dyno'd and the map tweaked to resolve these issues. I can confirm that both of these issues were resolved and the power it is producing is fantastic.

    At first I felt disappointed that I went with Shark and I wish I'd gone with a bigger tuner, or perhaps someone who had tuned many GTI's (there are some on the GTI forums) and I'd seen the graphs, read reviews specific to my car etc. However I am now over the moon with the map and the service I received from Shark. I have been dealing with Rob and Ben, I would now happily go to them again knowing what they put in to resolve any problems. Same with Mikko, he spent hours fine tuning the map to make sure it was 100% perfect. Not sure whether I should post this on here or not, but I was even compensated for the fuel that was used on the dyno, although I did ask for this as I thought it was only fair (it was an additional expense which I didn't envision [e.g. travelling to Mansfield, having a day off work, having the car on the dyno several times throughout the morning]) Once again, I wholeheartedly recommend Shark, you'll get great after sales service, if you happen to need it. My only criticism would be that they could have been a bit more chatty when I was sat in their waiting area all morning struggling to stay awake (or have an Xbox in there or something for us to do!), however, I appreciate they are all very busy so it can be forgiven.

    :beerchug:
    #96
  17. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Was just about to update here myself.....

    So, as well as the car going like stink since the DSG `patch`, the sooty deposits on the cars rear have gone too.
    Result!

    As a side issue, does the DSG map alter the shift characteristics so that the car stays on boost as you shift up the box?
    At the minute it just drops off boost so you get a very short lag on up-shift before the car comes on song in each subsequent gear.
    Not a problem but it would make it more extreme when `hooning`

    Cheers
    Paul
    #97
  18. Scott
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    Scott Well-Known Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    By sooty deposits do you mean black exhaust pipes? As mine go really black, sometimes it's wet, almost like oil, but I'm fairly certain it did that too (to some extent at least) before the map.
    #98
  19. RPB
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    RPB Active Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    As standard the DSG will auto shift up a gear at 6,700 rpm. If this drops out of the 'zone' I never noticed tbh. The increased rev limit with DSG map is 7300 rpm approx. so will keep the revs up naturally due to that. However mine just pulls like a train anyway. I don't notice any lagg as such from any rev area when I change gear. Just enjoy it!
    #99
  20. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [May 23, 2012]
    I was getting sooty spots up the back of the car but that has stopped since the revised map went on. The tailpipes still get a bit grubby but nowt excessive, in fact normal IMO.
  21. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Well done to the guys @ HQ again.
  22. Gandy
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    Gandy Member

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    [Oct 1, 2012]
    As promised I am reporting back having now completed another 7,700 miles with the stage 1 shark. I have averaged 27.1mpg. That is 0.9mpg or 3.3% better than the 26.2mpg I had recorded previously. To put that in context, given 4.54 litres per gallon and about £1.38 per litre for Sainsbury’s 97 octane, that would give a saving of £7.95 per 1,000 miles driven. Assuming a continuation of the same economy figures and same price of fuel (yeah right) the shark stage 1 will pay for itself after 56,588 miles. I suppose if we were being pedantic about it, I could arguably have earnt 1.5% interest on the money I spent on the remap over the time period it will take to travel 56,588 miles which would increase the payback term a little. In any case to summise, stage 1 pays for itself in under 60,000 miles based on my data. Other results may vary, the value of your investment may go up as well as down, all data provided 'as is', you have the right to remain silent and etc
    Artimus likes this.

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