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My S3 Stage 2+ dyno

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by H17YD L, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Thought i'd post up my graph from my dyno run. Was a 25-30 degree run and with the haldex disconnect (2WD dyno)

    In case you cant make it out its:
    337bhp @6257rpm
    364 ft/lb @3565rpm

    It's going back in to have the DSG map finished so will make a little bit more power as it will rev to 7100rpm. I wanted more power but this is at the limit of the S3 plastic end tank intercooler!

    [​IMG]

    Comments welcome!
    #1
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  3. RedDejavu
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    RedDejavu Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    something isnt right there torque is higher than bhps? Normally you should see them to be simillar or less torque.
    #2
  4. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    You can have more torque than bhp. Look at most diesels.
    Or do you mean in the TFSI only? As I've seen it before where they have more torque than bhp
    #3
  5. Dean_T
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    Dean_T Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    How well does it drive now?

    What stage did you got to 2+ from?

    Which map do you have on the car?

    Lots of questions lol :)
    #4
  6. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    It's not uncommon to see more torque than bhp,but what's more important is the torque curve is quite reasonable,and has no big midrange dips.
    #5
  7. nluk100
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    nluk100 Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Who mapped it?
    Is it a Gen 4 Haldex S3 as I thought these could be run in 4WD mode?
    I didn't think the S3 intercoolers had plastic end-caps, only the Ed30/Cupra?
    What mods are you running?

    Even more questions ;-)
    #6
  8. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    It's the dyno that was the issue I think if I'm right in thinking it was a 2WD dyno.

    Haldex systems DO cause problems with our cars when you try to run a lot of power,and the Haldex starts shifting torque around,causing the dyno to throw a bit of a wobbly,and we had problems putting mine on the dyno,and I know several others who had the same problems.

    The cure if it can be called one,is to run in 2WD mode by disabling the Haldex.
    #7
  9. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]

    The car drives really well, nice and progressive. But doesn't feel that fast because of how smooth it is, a look down at the speedo and you know it is goin quick lol
    It was standard to 2+. Previously had APR stage 1 then removed.
    Now running R-Tech custom



    Glad you have commented Alex, and glad you think it looks good! I wanted more power but seems I'll have to get a bigger intercooler.



    Think it's Gen4. It's a 2010MY I didn't know about the intercoolers till I took it in! Seems Vag made them all plastic end caps after 2009 (tight b4stards!!)


    Mods are: custom 3" downpipe de-cat, milltek non res cat-back, autotech internals, neuspeed p-flo, PCV removed and catch can fitted.
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  10. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Yeh it was a 2wd dyno and run by disconnecting Haldex plug.
    #9
  11. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    By all accounts,it's actually not bad,and if you want more power,and possibly torque,you'll need an uprated HPFP,which will help things a bit.

    The biggest limitation is the turbo,which frankly will run out of puff at around 360-370bhp.

    If you want a big intercooler,then you have a good choice now,with Airtec,THS,APR etc,and ProAlloy,which is still probably the biggest one you can fit.
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  12. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    It's not the ideal way of getting a run,but if that's all they have,then it's what you get.

    We tried a set of 2WD runs on mine as the dyno was getting seriously upset by the power and torque shifts,and it helps to use 2WD under those conditions sometimes.
    #11
  13. OVRA3
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    OVRA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    E
    Mine isn't an s3 but on a 4wd dyno it made 260bhp and 279 torque. Think it's normal? S3 stage 2 before me made 334bhp so well done sounds like a good map
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  14. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Got the HPFP done Alex, autotech internals.


    There is a good choice now and like to look of the Airtec.

    Read a few times now that its safer to run in 2wd for the reasons u mentioned
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  15. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    OK...didn't know you'd had the HPFP done,which would explain the good midrange torque.


    I think the generally accepted reasoning is to use 4WD if possible,and to use 2WD only if either the tuner only has a 2WD dyno,or the Haldex is causing problems.

    For instance,mine ran absolutely fine on the RR until we got beyond 400bhp.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
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  16. jonny1985
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    jonny1985 Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Is 337 bhp not a bit low for stage 2+ ?
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  17. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Perhaps,but don't forget the general dyno lottery,plus 2WD running,plus 25-30C ambients and stock intercooler,where heatsoak can make a difference.

    I'd be happier with the torque,than being concerned about peak bhp,and once the car adapts,there may be a bit more.
    #16
  18. jonny1985
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    jonny1985 Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Ah. Thourt the stock ic was able to cope with stage 2+ pretty well. Also though stage 2+ was closer to 360 bhp
    #17
  19. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Like I said.....you have to allow a bit for RR variability,plus take into account the ambient temps.

    If you do a run on a stone cold day,I can virtually guarantee better results than on a hot day,mid summer.
    #18
  20. jonny1985
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    jonny1985 Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Yeh its better when its cooler. Looks like he has used Rtech the same as me . It was freezing when mine was mapped lol so that's why probs made more lol
    #19
  21. smurfworth
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    smurfworth Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 13, 2013]
    Pretty sure r tech's stage 2+ isn't the same as revo's stage 2+ therefore figures won't be the same.
    #20
  22. S3_Jacko
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    S3_Jacko Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    I've been qouted 310bhp from a stage 1 remap on 8p s3... thats with shark performance... these figures sound right?
    #21
  23. S3_Jacko
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    S3_Jacko Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]

    And will all the standard bits hold up to the extra bhp and torque... i.e turbo, clutch... engine as a whole, without any mods?
    #22
  24. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    The S3's manual clutch is pretty poor,and wil last till about 310-330lbs at best.

    The stock K04 turbo will get you to about 360-370bhp,and then it's maxed out.

    Other than that,the engine is good for 440lbs without any internal mods.

    Above that,you need new pistons,rods and a shedload of other bits.
    #23
  25. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]

    What mods do you have? What figures did u get?
    the alluminuim end tank I/c will cope with more but mines got plastic end tanks. Hopefully bigger one on soon!



    Who said it would be??
    #24
  26. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    I think one problem is different tuners calling their stages different names,for instance Shark's Stg3 is Revo's Stg2+ etc.

    Also,whilst they all get approximately similar figires,they won't be exactly the same,and even the same software on 2 diffferent cars may give different figures,especially if the boost and timing are slightly different.
    #25
  27. jonny1985
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    jonny1985 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Mine made 302bhp and 356 ft lb of torque with no mods on a stage 1
    #26
  28. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]

    I know that different companies use the different levels. But I have the mods to support the equivalent of revo stage 2+ and is mapped for said mods.
    Daft for someone to say the figures will different to revo. As we all know they will and like you say the same map can be different on 2 cars. It's all down to the car, hence the reason I wanted a custom map.



    Seems R-tech go for torque over HP. Makes a really nice drive! What year is your car?
    #27
  29. DJ-S3
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    DJ-S3 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    My S3 manual made 345bhp and 358lb-ft at stage 2+ (revo) but them figures were on the standard clutch with it slipping through the rev range. Now I've got the loba/Sachs clutch kit fitted and bedded in I need to get it on a dyno.

    The mods I had on the car were:

    ITG Maxogen induction kit
    Milltek full system
    Auto tech internals
    Up rated dump valve (Audi's)
    Airtec intercooler

    I then got the loba/Sachs clutch kit.

    Wasnt sure how the slipping clutch would affect the power outputs on the paper, if it would make them less or more, but I suppose only getting it RR'd again will tell.
    #28
  30. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    How do you rate the Airtec? Have you done any logging to see how good it is?
    #29
  31. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    I can't give you any information on the Airtec unfortunately,but I can on the ProAlloy I have on mine.

    This will give intake temps within 10-12C of ambient with boost up to 2 bar,which I thought was pretty good....the others such as the Airtec/THS/APR etc should do a lot better than the stock one which develops hotspots under heavy load/high boost,and doesn't perform so well under those conditions.
    #30
  32. jonny1985
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    jonny1985 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    2009 (59)
    #31
  33. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Dont suppose you know if your intercooler is the newer style with plastic end tanks?
    #32
  34. DJ-S3
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    DJ-S3 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Haven't done any logging, but went to Germany (nurburgring) last year with it (stage1) and just got back from France/Switzerland/Italy, with it on and at stage 2+ and not once did it skip a beat. It pulled hard through all gears. Whereas at the nurburgring it felt like it tailed off a bit.

    Although I think my fan is on a lot more now.... Hahaha
    #33
  35. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    I envy you doing all that driving across Europe. I've said I'm going to do it every year for the the last 5 lol! I'll plan it for next year ;)

    Thanks for the review of the cooler! Seems the cheapest quality cooler I can get, we'll the THS is only £70 more but the Airtec has a thicker core I believe.
    #34
  36. T3KT0N1K
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    T3KT0N1K Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]

    When you say bedded in, what do you mean exactly? I had a sachs/loba upgrade a week or two ago at AmD Tuning in Essex and they told me that it didn't need bedding in.
    #35
  37. DJ-S3
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    DJ-S3 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Yeah statller told me the same. But couldn't do any harm to not thrash it for a few hundred miles.
    #36
  38. DJ-S3
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    DJ-S3 Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Yeah it was loads of fun. Both of them. The nurburgring trip wasn't just there, went to Amsterdam/Bruges/Brussels/cologne and Mannheim (German GP).
    #37
  39. H17YD L
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    H17YD L Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Fantastic mate! Need to do it, and especially in the S3
    #38
  40. turbonutz
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    turbonutz Active Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Dont need to change anything with stage one map. I have stage one the now and pretty standard the now with plans of pushing it bit more. To got beyond that you might want to change things to help supply support for power like CAI down pipe HPFP? Then beyound that stage 2+/3 you may need to change parts like clutch to support power from what ive gatherd. Personally about stage two id want to change breaks before going further as I recon you should have better more reliable stopping power with increase of actual going power haha just a para thought maybe eh?
    #39

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