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My S3 doesnt like the redline

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Barker_Tom, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. Barker_Tom
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    Barker_Tom New Member

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    Hi chaps,


    When I give my S3 a bit of a thrashing I get problems that to be honest seem a bit like 'computer says no'.


    When the engine is fully warmed up (allowing an extra 10 mins after the coolant is warm for the oil to catch up)....

    I change from second to third at around 6,800 just before the redline. When I get into third and put my foot down I get HUGE engine braking, like some sensor is cutting the fuel or someone is putting the brakes on! It just wont boost for long without trouble.


    A few seconds later it is fine....


    I also notice similar periods of 'holding back' when putting my foot down in 4th/5th for a long period of time...i.e it seems after a few seconds of boost it decides that there is a problem.


    For information it is an unmodified 1999 210bhp S3. The MAF is a genuine Audi item about 2 weeks old (that blissbully cured a problem with the idle). The DV and Therm are also new Audi items.


    Any ideas would be very much appreciated

    Cheers all!!

    Tom
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  2. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    oooh, sounds like you could have an issue.....but i wouldnt rule out the driving style....the S3 doesnt like the red line at all, you have to put your faith in changing early on and letting the torque do the work for you...red line is not the quickest way to drive your car im afraid....took me a month to get used to it after my old a3 1.8T
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  3. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    Power will have properly tailed off by then. Not much real point reving the engine that high.
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  4. Barker_Tom
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    Barker_Tom New Member

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    Yes I am aware that the power tails off - and I am quite dissapointed with the S3 for that reason. Having just come from the world of high revving engines I have become quite fond of 7k+.

    Anyway - My driving style is not the issue - there is clearly somthing wrong. Does anything have any ideas?

    I also get hesitation after long periods on boost in higher gears....when no where near the redline.

    Tom
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  5. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    take the engine cover off, could be boost leak if it tails off early or after sustained boost used.... T piece on top of the engine is likely canadidate, other than that have a look around the pipes beneath the inlet manifold for oily residue - should show any leaks
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  6. mattyboy199
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    mattyboy199 Active Member

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    why rev to 6800k the engine isnt designed to be reved that high nor is there any point in doing that. I would expect gaskets to blow sooner or later.
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  7. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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    Have you had it on VAGCOM, might be able to give you any errors or clues to what the problem is....
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  8. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    it may be disappointing that it doesnt rev really high, although im sure Audi will have designed it that way for a reason....more comfortable drive maybe....either way I dont know many other cars this comfortable with these extras with this performance...without spending 50k plus!!
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  9. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    turbo cars generally do not rev highly at all, it's because they don't need to! turbo cars are all about torque, and with power being a product of torque and revs, with increased torque, high power figures are made without the need for high revs.

    The quickest way to drive the S3 is to shift around 5000-5500rpm, and ride the torque.
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  10. Raggy A4
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    Raggy A4 Vorsprung Durch Tecnik

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    I agree with Prawn. My mate imports Scoobys and when i gave him a shot of my S3 he told me not to rev it beyond 5500rpm, cause the car runs out of boost at this point. He recommended i get a boost gauge and when i was kicking the arse out of it just run it off the boost gauge. The boost doesnt kick in till 1500-2000rmp so run it in between them and see if that helps?
    #10
  11. wibble111
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    wibble111 needs to scratch the itch

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    I used to quite often get a heavy right foot in my 1.8ts till a friend told me about the boost loss at higher revs, being as that was my first turbo car it took me a little while to adjust my driving style.
    I love the pull of it now when i short shift sort of thing, if you know what i mean.
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  12. AlexStanley
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    AlexStanley Member

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    Hi Tom

    I feel for you coming on here and asking a perfectly valid question, and then everybody chips in to suggest you should modify your driving style!

    To be frank if the car wasn't supposed to rev that highly, the limiter would be set lower wouldn't it.

    You're right that it shouldn't be doing that - I'm not an expert but have read a lot about things like collapsing pipes, MAFs etc.

    I think Nilz's suggestion about getting it on a VAGCOM would be the best route forward - it will show you what errors have been logged which should help you diagnose the problem :)
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  13. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I have to agree with you....many but not all turbo cars do rev quite high,but whilst it's clear the S3 doesnt rev its head off(the power does roll off quickly above 6500rpm), it should run cleanly to the point before the limiter begins to cut in.
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  14. Essflee
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    Essflee Active Member

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    To be fair no matter how you drive, the car shouldn't be holding back in 3rd early on in the rev range... Get the car checked for codes !!
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  15. Barker_Tom
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    Barker_Tom New Member

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    Hi guys


    Thanks for the input - both from those who focused on the question and those who went off on one!

    Cheers for the advice - I would definately like to get the codes read on VAGCOM - to be honest i'd like to do that myself - Maybe i'll treat myself to a laptop this Christmas yay!

    Basically - I agree that Turbo cars don't rev that high (my R5GTT's only to about 5.5k), but the S3 limit on the dash is about 7k....and there is a PROBLEM with my car in that its doesnt not rev smoothly...regardless of weather you change at 5.8 or 6.8.


    I do like the S3 tho...and those who keep talking about riding the torque - yes I know exactly what you mean, its really quite a pleasing car to drive.

    Compared to say VTEC however...its comfy performance rather than raw-racer style.

    Thumbs up though.
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  16. Essflee
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    Essflee Active Member

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    have you checked the thread at the top of the page, there maybe someone in your area with Vag com that could give you a look...
    #16
  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    I think that you are missing the point here, yes we have given advice on what it could be - however i would strongly suggest that the 'driving style' tips are completely valid and could have contributed (not meant to bwe offensive).... I consider myself an accomplished driver having had many different cars in my time.... what i will say is that the S3 is not like any other turbo car i have driven (within the first month), it took me a while to get to know how to drive it... i came from a 1.8T prior!!!!

    Don't take it to heart, we have answered your question and beleive me, it WAS relevant to your query

    The limiter could have been set lower, id hate to think how that would feel if you were changing down...simple fact is that yes the limiter is high, that is not where the power is though as you know.... its just the way it is (not a case of its set that high for a reason!!- you missed the point here)

    I hope that when you ask another question you swallow your pride and actually look at all the areas that have been raised - we try and help on here but you will slow replies in the future because of the 'i know already' mentality.... you clearly dont know otherwise you wouldnt have posted
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  18. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    My S3 loves the Redline! :):racer::)
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  19. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Alex,do you drive to the limiter all through all the gears and does your mechanic go on cruises around the world on his hollybobs with the constant gearbox/clutch repair work you give him?
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  20. AlexStanley
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    AlexStanley Member

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    As it happens, no! But it's not about my driving style. The fact is that this guy has come on here asking for help about a car that's hesitating on gearchange (redline or not), and I just feel that in the interests of the community the responses could have been more constructive from the outset :)

    FWIW I have owned an Audi A3 1.8T, a VW Beetle 1.8T, an Audi S3 (unmolested and also remapped) a TT 225, an A3 2.0T S-Line and now a high-mileage A3 1.8T. None of these have had problems revving to the redline and I've not had to 'modify my driving style' either.

    I'm an observer on this thread and thought I would add a bit of support for the poor guy - imagine if you went into a dealer and said "the door creaks when I open it fully" and their response was "don't open it as wide then" ;)
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  21. fran-s3
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    fran-s3 Active Member

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    As said before million and one reasons why it could be the case.. (mine was fuel pump related when I was having this, was misfiring at optimum boost) But as suggested VAG-COM it first. Interestingly my fuel pump issue didn't show on VAG-COM but just report back for more advice.

    So how do you do that? Theres a button under the engine area called 'check faults' or similar, hit that and note down what it says. DON'T CLEAR THEM THOUGH!
    #21
  22. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    ALex know what your saying fella but in this case you are wrong...sorry to have to break the news fella...... the S3 is not like an A3 in any way, i too have owned both, the last A3 for 6 years....the S3 stil took me about a month to get used to because you have to learn where to change

    the comments were completely constructive, ok it may not be his driving style, but it was an option rather than 'slate' at the poor chap
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  23. omegadirective
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    omegadirective Member

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    I just want to add my 2 cents worth... :)

    I do think people came on a bit strong with their views! Sounds like people were flaming the poor guy for his driving style instead of helping him adjust it to match the car.

    Alex, I don't agree with you. The limiter is set to stop damage to the engine, not to limit it's performance in anyway. IMO, you should never be on the redline unless it's a real emergency. The S3 has plenty of power WELL before then to not warrant using the redline. I've had both an A3 and S3 and the S3 is completely different from the A3. I was amazed at how different it is. The only thing I think is similar at the end of the day is the body work. The car feels unbelievably different.

    One driving style does not match every car. Same was as if anyone has ever ridden a horse, you can't jump on one and expect it to respond the same as another. YOU are the one driving, YOU have the ability to change. The car doesn't.

    I do agree though with Tom though, sounds like there is something up. VAGCOM sounds your best bet mate! :) No point in guessing or stabbing in the dark. Get some proof in the form of readings then the speculation can begin! :)


    ...I fancy a remap soon, still haven't got one! :)
    #23
  24. AlexStanley
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    AlexStanley Member

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    It seems as if I'm being misinterpreted in my posts. Having re-read them I can see that I wasn't being particularly clear.

    I didn't mean that you should rag the car, nor should it perform like a monster at the red line. I have already said that I don't rev my cars to the redline; nor do I think you should - this goes for any car, not just turbocharged ones.

    However, I stand by the fact that Tom came on here with a problem and whilst I agree that the other members offered a workaround it can only be seen as such - drive it in a different way.

    That doesn't fix the problem, does it!

    Fact is that when Tom accelerates and then changes to the next gear, the engine doesn't want to fire cleanly. I know of no VAG car that performs like this 'out of the box', so clearly there is something wrong.

    Lots of us have suggested getting a VAGCOM plugged in (including me!) and I think that would be the correct course of action.

    I'm slightly disappointed that I've become the target of everybody's wrath - particularly because I feel I've been misinterpreted.

    I think I'll just go back to lurking - it seems when I make a contribution, it all goes pear-shaped!
    #24

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