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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 29, 2009.
too much for this thread. can you email me instead.. firstname.lastname@example.org
Small update... been suffering (yes, suffering!!) from man flu all week but managed to get over to the workshop last night to test fit the modded oil drain as this is holding up putting the car back together.
Fitted the oil drain and bingo!!! clears the drive shaft... I thought I would bolt the shaft to the drive flange just to do a final sanity check and yes, it still cleared.... the bolt heads didn't however and hit the braided hose... DOH!!!
Little bit of tweakage and bending in the vice and everything now clears. The oil drain is now bolted on... it was very tight on one of the bolts but its in and means I can now finish putting the car back together ready for starting her up over the weekend.
Does mean that I won't be going to Castle Combe this weekend though which is a shame but thats how it goes
Come on Tuffty! The suspense is killing me!!! Tell all!
Nearly there buddy!!
The suspense would be killing me if it was my project
Ok, the car is now more or less back together. Fitted the downpipe and tweaked clearances for the various pipes etc that are close. Its a little close to the drive shaft gaiter too but 'should' be ok. Will see how that goes then look at a solution if it cause problems. Bolted up the prop shaft, fitted the driveshaft and wheel.
Oil drain tightness...
Bolting oil drain to the turbo tightness... (bit of a theme here...)
All back together...
Tomorrow is finish exhaust section from downpipe to current exhaust system which needs a little welding, fill with oil and coolant and start her up... simples
I have my video camera ready too so all things being well my next post could well be a very interesting one
looks very tight!
Build :: IMAG0002.mp4 video by tufftybloke - Photobucket
Tim I won't edit the thread as I cannot see any rules broken,I think S3 Pauls queries/different ideas and the replies given to them by Paul and Bill are nuggets of knowledge which other members can access and only benefit from.
If any member is not happy with any posts then report them
It sounds like it eats small children and fluffy woodland creatures for breakfast!!! :O
Have you taken it for a spin yet??
The video was taken with no exhaust fitted... straight out the down pipe... Its running far too rich atm... the ECU is still mapped with Custom Code stage 1 so wideband adaption is currently -25% and still running too rich.
Exhaust is now back together and sounding much quieter but definitely louder than before
No leaks or funny noises on start up except for the fuel pump which has a small leak either from the supplied fitting or from the pump case itself... I had a feeling the pump may cause me a problem but ironically not from the way I plumbed it up as thats holding together... will have to remove the pump and re-tighten the fixings and see if that sorts it out.
Should be getting one of Bill's stage 3 maps over the next couple of days so hoping that I will be driving her home before the weekend.
Ahhh, that makes a little more sense, I couldn't believe that having a different turbo would change the engine note and volume quite so much!
Well best of luck getting the last few bits done, look forward to hearing about the drive home
Top work mate
Paul this has been a great thread, thanks for sharing it with everyone. I bet you cant sleep at night at the moment through all the excitement
Paul looked quite happy last thing last night when it was running on its now connected exhaust. no leaks anywhere which is a good sign.. just smoking whilst things burn off the hot bits... more of that to come when it gets driven with its 1st new map on it shortly
Pauls done a stirling job on what has mostly been all his own work. His attention to detail is excellent. OCD anyone? Whilst parts were off, they were more often than not cleaned/painted/polished or all 3..
We are hoping it will go as well as the Leon Cupra I had in for setting up WMI on, on saturday.. that one flies.. 380+bhp from its gt2871R, 2ltr 20v motor.. 80mph wheelspin in the dry where Pauls S3 will go forward. Power to weight to factor into this, so hopefully this GT30R will do the bizz shortly
A lot learned by all of us on this particular mix of parts.
Ha ha OCD FTW!!
No probs... hope it helps to highlight the amount of work involved in doing something like this... I have enjoyed posting about it almost as much as doing the work and thanks again to everyone for the feedback on the build.
I have learned to control myself and not get too excited as the project has been challenging at times so keeping a clear head and working through the issues has meant its done right. The clear head will go out the window at the first M3 I spot of course ;P
Mapping and logging should help highlight any potential issues too... no leaks other than the fuel pump at the moment but that could change once the car has been on a few logging runs which is fine as you would expect to have a snagging list on a build like this.
My main area of concern is the proximity of the DP to the inboard CV gaiter. Its closer now the car is back on its wheels but hoping there is still enough clearance that it won't melt the boot... It will require further tweaks to the DP if it is but the logging runs should highlight any of these issues.
Not long now and I'll sort some more vids out etc too...
Big thanks and 'nuff respekt' to Bill though... while I have done the spanner work and some fabrication (easy bits) myself, I wouldn't be anywhere near this point without his help. Allowing me to use his workshop and tools, advice as required, a 'second pair of hands' when needed and of course the welding work... I will also say a big thank you to Tony who helps Bill out with his builds as his is a little bit of an unsung hero. There isn't anything this man can't fabricate... thanks d00de
I have to say tufty that i've been looking forward to reading this thread on a daily basis and cant wait to see what its like when its all finished. Home straight now mate.
Toom the words out of my mouth! When I get home and check my emails, I always hope theres one from AS telling me you have added to the thread!
Its an awesome and inspiring project and build thread, good stuff!
Are you going to swing a bottle of champagne into the bonnet before she drives!? Good luck with the mapping etc, looking forward to the next update.:icon_thumright:
If its a potential otherwise unknown secret polishing agent, I am sure tuffty will be on it with the buffer and mops... lol
...which reminds me... the S6 is due its winter valet soon isn't it mate ;P
The car has been out for the first mapping run... all good apart from some dozy pillock neglected to refit the EGT probe wiring plug.... DOH!
Out for her second run now....
...more to come... hopefully :thumbsup:
Been a funny old evening.... Bill was having a few probs with his laptop suddenly turning itself off mid logging (not mid flash thankfully) so it delayed things a little.
Mapping is nearly there, running a tad lean under boost at the moment.... 0.5bar boost at 3.2k rpm but haven't been pushing it until the fuelling is right.
Good news is though.... I have driven her home!!! WooHoo!!!
I haven't given it any welly due to the fuelling prob but she drives lovely under normal conditions. Fuel economy (assuming the DIS adjusts to the ECU fuelling requests) seems ok under normal driving conditions. Got her up to 40, hit the cruise control and she sat there happy as larry...
Dropping the car back to Bill tomorrow night when he will sort out the mapping for hopefully the final time then jobs a good un.
is bill going to make a kit because im pretty sure your making everyone think about going bt, im defo saving up now to go big turbo! im glad its gone soo well for you, bet you happy to see her sitting out side your house finally:icon_thumright:
I doubt Bill will do a 'kit' as such... its not really what he does. He would be able to supply most of the components but the 'kit' (turbo, mani, oil and water lines) as supplied was a little way off from being a 'kit' for an S3 anyway and there would always be an element of custom fabrication and 'modding' to get this type of thing fitted.
Doing a BT conversion is always going to be more than a kit anyway. Other than the turbo and manifold, there are the rods, injectors, FMIC, pipes and hoses, TIP, downpipe, second fuel pump etc.... plus all the gaskets, fabrication and other stuff that goes along with it.
A BT conversion is just that... a conversion. I haven't gone OTT by choice and I except that I am still running std valve train, std clutch and that a top mount mani is better than an underslung mani. Doing this build has made me realise a couple of things. It is a lot of work to do but it can be done on a budget as long as you set your expectations realistically.
I shudder to think what the labour charges would be on my build if I hadn't done it myself.
Me too mate and again I can't thank Bill enough for the couple of late nights he put in to get the last little bits finished. I have been driving a Mk2 Golf 1.3 for the past month or so. Its an ok car don't get me wrong but getting back into my S3 tonight was like slipping in between silk sheets compared... its night and day different and I don't just mean the power...
Will post another update and other stuff when she is all sorted over the next day or so...
i think my best bet is going to be sit in for a night with a cuppa price both up and decide if i realy need over 300bhp as im only 20 and im not too sure how much insurance company will take to a big turbo, and im tempted to just go with a nice k04 setup and let it breath freely as im sure 280ish will be plenty for me imo, with a few more handling mods
Do I really 'need' nearly 400bhp??? prob not.... but where is the fun it that!!! LOL
Fair point mate... Bill had an Ibiza in last week with a K04 hybrid (Turbo Technics one) and fitted water/meth injection to that. That has got to be pushing 280 bhp plus and 300 odd ftlbs torque so worth looking into...
So if you don't mind me asking roughly how much has it cost you? I know that you where looking at 2-3k at the start I was just wondering if you managed to stick to that or went over?
Can't wait to see the final figures.
This is gonna be a hell of a machine !
Are you gonna get some speedo and fly by vids when she's all finished ?
Dont forget that BT isn't the only way, you can get a K04 hybrid which will put out 300bhp which wont require a lot of the work that Paul has put in and will also come in a kit.
but all K04 hybrids will suffer from small hotsides, poor flowing manifold (which cracks) and a compressor heavy, likely spikey large boost delivery.. I fear more for engines with hybrid K04 than I do a Gt30R..
cheaper for sure to go hybrid, but ringing their neck on >300bhp power levels worries me on reliability
This is true but..... its a hell of a way!!!! I have got a fuelling issue on boost and its running a little lean. Bill has a new map ready but I am going to check the fuel pressure to see if its the inline pump causing a prob or at least isolate the pump as a prob and move on...
Apparently while Bill was out logging, she was holding 1.5bar to around 5k then nudged up to 2bar to the redline... (none of this K04 boost drop off nonsense... LOL!!) next file has been tweaked to 1.7bar to be safe.
I have been driving her around though and taking it easy... she drives lovely but there is more to come. I have prodded the loud pedal a couple of times and feck me does she go and thats with no timing advance dialled in and with the fuelling issue.
Seriously considering water/meth injection but thinking I will save for valves as she does seem to want to rev.
Its a ball ache having to drive off boost knowing what she is capable of but rather that than a melted engine.
Hopefully it should all be sorted at the weekend and I will be able to give a full report of how she feels and drives...
Its hard driving off boost isnt it!!
Ive heard a few people use the mk1 golf gti fuel pump as they are masively powerful for the money.
My boost is set to around 20psi at the moment which is a little high but... all seems good and when the cooler is on ... all will be very well. untill i swap to the big turbo... it will do lol
whats the lag like tuffty??? i was really interested in the gt28rs before going stage2 but was put off because i couldnt get to go out in one and because people say it will be to laggy, surely it cant be as bad as a k04 dropping off boost? i wish id have done it now
Ive been in a gt30 powered TT and to be honest it was a wee bit laggy but nothing huge. The owner then fitted nos to use whe the mood takes to aid how quick the set up spools.
Bigger turbo is always gonna be laggier but spool wise she sees 0.5bar at 3200rpm and is full on before 4k.
Power and boost delivery is different on a big turbo like the GT30 anyway. The K04 is designed to give low down boost and torque as its for a road car and tails off quickly as its done what it needs too do...
The little time I have spent on boost in my car and from the logs I have seen Bill produce while mapping, it doesn't look like it will tail off at all right up to the redline and she does just pull with no let up...
While bigger turbos spool later, they hold boost longer and this effectively moves the power band up the rev range. This is why I am now looking at getting some supertech valves etc so I can safely rev to 7800rpm to make full use of the power I have..
When i was deciding what to buy parts whise for my build... there was a company that did a sports cylinder head fully built with those valves and ported slightly on an exchange basis. Was around 1300 pound i think. Alot but for the ease of dropping my head off and leaving with a fully spec'd up head sounds good.
I would look towards a clutch first though.. So bill can map it to pull a little harder than he will be able to "nursing" your stock item. Then look at how to explote power from the car more and more.
I was realy sad you didnt make it to audi driver show. I realy fancied a look around it.
Never mind though
Not really interested in getting my head ported and to save the cash etc I'll just rebuild it all myself. Should be able to get everything I need for a little over half that price which will do me... thanks for the heads up though...
Its on my list mate... bit more research but a guy from SCN has a TT he uses on a drag strip thats putting out over 400bhp... he used a std clutch cover with a Sachs paddle plate for years without a problem so I may try that. He said it was a little on/off but with the std cover plate makes it easier to live with in traffic than the full monty...
Me too mate... was a tad gutted but it is what it is and she needed to be done at the pace she was done...
Always next year...
That head/Valves may well be needed the way she pulls to that redline mate.......
Fitted a pressure gauge to the fuel line going into the fuel rail so we could see if the fuel pressure was dropping off under boost. The pressure is suppose to follow the boost but as it turns out it did this to a point then starting dropping off which is bad.....
The pump I have is a DA-27 which should do 305lph. Something wasn't right with the pump anyway as it seemed to have a leak and the internal part of the pump turned around inside the outer case which the guy I bought it from said shouldn't happen.
I bought the pump from eBay for a good price, they have had good write ups so was worth a go. The seller has been an absolute star and his communication is spot on. After a bit of a chat he said there is no probs returning the pump for a replacement so after a bit of thought I have decided to go for the bigger pump (DA-31) as this has the same threaded ends as a Bosch 044 pump and the push fit ends Bill is getting made up fit this type of pump. Bill had got one in as a test so I swapped mine out with this one as the prototype push fit fuel pump ends had turned up.
Many thanks to Richard at Driven to Automotive for his help and understanding on this. eBay My World - driven2automotive
Here are some pics of the pump and it fittings...
Fitted in place of the fuel filter...
...in comparison the previous pump fitting...
Started the car to check for leaks while the car was on the ramp and Bill noticed the pump was very quiet... could hear a whirring and sounded like it was coming from the pump but putting a meter on the terminals said different.. no actual power to the pump. Checked the connections inthe car and one of the wires had come out of the crimp terminal where I spliced into the OEM fuel pump wiring DOH!!! no idea if this was like this from the start... sure when we fired her up for the first time it was working... anyhoo, working now and plenty of fuel pressure too so cured all sorts in the end... result!!
Checked for leaks and looked at the driveshaft gaiter to see if there is any probs... the water pipe from the turbo to the block has developed a small leak. Not enough to take the car off the road but it needs fixing as soon as I can. Think I will get a pipe made up from Bill's 'Pipe Guy'.
The driveshaft gaiter is still in one piece however, there is a distinct shiny wear patch on the last bit of the gaiter (not flange end, shaft end) which means at some point I am gonna have to remove it all and 'adjust' the downpipe a bit. Might see if I can loosen the v-band and move the DP up a bit on the turbine housing to give a little more clearance before resorting to other means.
Having a problem keeping the boost below 2.5bar too... ok as a spike but it holds under certain conditions and the map is dialled in for 1.7bar so a manual boost control may be needed.
Fuelling is still a bit out but to be fair the last map was tweaked to take the original fuelling issue into consideration so its over fuelling a bit now.
Few things to iron out but getting there. Actually got a chance to stick the boot in and she flys!!! bit more to come with map tweakage and then some added timing advance.
...very true mate... I wasn't looking at the rev counter at the time, just holding on for dear life LOL