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My minor modding thread

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Painfully aware dude ;P

    To be fair the ADI deadline was more to turn up than to go on the track as its not really my bag and I have been to every ADI since :)moa:)... as for the strip... it will happen one day... probably...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  3. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Further to this... I have it on good authority that I shall be getting the plenum and throttle body adaptor back this weekend so can put the inlet together... I also now have most of the bits for the new TIP (90mm) and plan to fit the S4 MAF tube etc too before finishing the mapping...

    <tuffty/>
     
  4. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    It will be good to see where the S4 maf maxes out

    Don't think i could max my RS4 one
     
  5. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost!
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    Paul, are you running adjustable tie on your S3? Just sifted through the whole thread and found nothing! More to the point, are they fitted to the top or the bottom, if you have them fitted?
     
  6. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Hummm... thought I had done a thread about it as I did the suspension some time before I did the BT conversion... so for completeness here are some pics of the suspension mods..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    KW Tie bars and Bilstein B8 dampers... originally had Eibach Pro springs but was never happy with the ride height so went for Apex springs...

    <tuffty/>
     
  7. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost!
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    Cheers Paul. No issues with tie bars at the bottom running Apex springs then? As they are lower.
     
  8. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    this was the first bit of evidence that it moves! :p

     
  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    You would have read about it by now if there was :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost!
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    True, lol

    I'll stick them at the bottom then, it's easier to fit them there anyways.

    Cheers mate.
     
  11. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Depends how much power you run? You'll max the RS4 out around 620hp.
     
  12. E2FAS

    E2FAS Member

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    Thats crisp.. looking to lower mine soon.. how much is that dropped by..?

    I wanted to lower by 30mm front and 25mm rear with suspension as i was told springs dont hold the stance as well.
     
  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    The Apex springs I am using are 30mm

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. BuuBBa

    BuuBBa Member

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    How is the ride with Apex compared to Eibachs?
     
  15. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    A little firmer but not uncomfortable by any stretch...

    <tuffty/>
     
  16. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Minor update due to a weekend of weddings and crustaceanal engine building...

    Bills machining man Nigel managed to find a window in his rather busy workload to do the throttle body adaptor for my inlet... not a brilliant pic as I was too busy to take loads and this was one Nige sent me Saturday but I'll take some better pics later as the mani comes together finally..

    [​IMG]

    Got the alloy plate to do the vacuum manifold on the bottom of the plenum as well as the IAT sensor... I also have all the bits to do the 90mm TIP as this turned up last week shortly after the S4 MAF housing from Andrew..

    [​IMG]

    Few more bits to sort out and a week off at the beginning of next month to get it all fitted (hopefully)

    <tuffty/>
     
  17. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    As I said yesterday, it looks excellent Paul! Really smart and lovely attention to detail the way he's ground down the bolt heads to make it smart.

    Can't wait to see how it all comes together in standard Tuffty ''from the factory'' finish :)
     
  18. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Minor update... Bill is hopefully going to weld up the manifold if he finds a spare 5 mins this week (ta mate :D) and I have been looking at the scaling for the S4 MAF tube too...

    Plotting the various sets of MLHFM data you can see the differences between the two main sensors in use (040 for narrow band ME7 and 049 for wideband ME7.5... the RS4 has a different sensor again)... Early S4's used a Bosch sensor where later ones use a Hitachi... I used an A-Box file to get the Bosch data from which uses the 040 sensor...

    First, a comparison of RS4, S4 (Bosch 040), S3 (APY and AMK) and an A3 (AUM)...
    [​IMG]

    Next a direct comparison of S3 sensors... APY (040) maxes at 276gs while AMK/BAM (049) maxes at 292.58gs... same size tube...
    [​IMG]

    Thanks to Kev for helping with working a few things out... I had already worked out that the percentage increase in surface area between the S3 MAF (69mm ID) and the S4 MAF (76mm ID) was just over 20% but didn't think it would be as simple as just 'increasing' the figures this way but to cut a long story short it kinda was... Kev did the calcs and plotted against my existing data (I work with data all day long and simply couldn't be arsed...) and bingo.. a plausible set of data to use for the MAF scaling...
    [​IMG]

    On the 040 sensor the S4 MAF maxes out at 335gs/418bhp... theoretically if I have got the maths right then the S4 tube with my 049 sensor in it will be good for 351gs/438hp which is more than enough for my setup...

    This should work well with the 90mm TIP I have planned... to give you an idea of the increase in size I am currently using 76mm OD tube (smaller than Bills K04 TIP!!!)... here is a 76mm OD pipe next to the 90mm OD pipe I am going to use...
    [​IMG]

    Hoping to get the manifold mostly done this weekend and the revised charge pipework cut ready for welding...

    <tuffty/>
     
  19. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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  20. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Clever stuff dude. The picture of that 90mm U bend doesn't do it justice, when I held it I was shocked at just how massive it was!

    Sounds me like Welly needs an S4 housing as well!
     
  21. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Looking good mate and interesting data & info as always :)

    Think Welly would be better off with the RS4 MAF as possibly maxxed the S4?

    Do you know what the RS4 max's at? Pressume it's about 600bhp as the s4 is about 70% of the rs4's value?
     
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  23. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    670 bhp i think it is for the RS4

    I think you will need the RS4 one Stacey as your on the GTX3071

    I think welly will need to upgrade soon
     
  24. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Got a RS4 MAF at home with bills billet adaptor and k&n filter the same as the recent TT and Leon he's done ;)

    You still going with the rs4 MAF?
     
  25. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    I am, i was going to go maffless but its better to have it for a better idle
     
  26. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Welly's APY uses the 040 sensor so in an S4 will only see 418hp of air... RS4 MAF and sensor will see 499gs or airflow or nearly 624hp...

    Not sure on the scaling for an RS4 tube using an 049 sensor though as the RS4 sensor is different again and not sure what other MAFs its used in... the RS4 sensor has an additional air temp sensor...

    <tuffty/>
     
  27. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
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    off topic slightly... so i should not be using a amk/bam Maf in my APY derived engine??
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Depends if the scaling has been sorted in the map... generally I would suggest sticking to the family of sensor originally setup for the ECU you have (in your case the 040 on ME7)... as long as the map has been dialled in right then arguably it should work...

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Certinally more headroom than i'll ever need lol
     
  30. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Engine doesnt matter so much, what matters is the ECU.

    If its an AMK/BAM ECU then it'll be fine running the AMK/BAM MAF.

    If its an APY ECU then the map should have the AMK/BAM MLHFM transferred in.
     
  31. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
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    Interesting, i wonder if thats why my Hybrid results were poor? Thats the first time ive heard of different S3 Mafs...
     
  32. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    If just 'plonked' in then the ECU could be seeing more airflow than its actually got and managing load accordingly... any reason why you are using an 049 (AMK) sensor over an 040 (APY)?

    <tuffty/>
     
  33. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
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    I didnt know there were a difference, i got it from ECP and noticed it had a diff part number... to be fair it never felt any difference either...
    Tuner just asked if it was running a standard 3" maf..
    Has any body got both part numbers?
     
  34. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I thought you had done a wideband conversion though Dave?
     
  35. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
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    No mate im thinking about it for my evolution... :icon_thumright:

    Hmm i wonder how many people are running the wrong Mafs then...

    Have i to start a new thread paul and delete these so it doesnt spoil your build thread??
     
  36. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    oh right, didn't realise that!

    In that case, you should definitely be running an APY MAF on your APY ECU!

    With all due respect, I highly doubt RS tuning know the difference between the two sensors and how to scale appropriately.
     
  37. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Won't the ecu adapt fueling trims longterm anyhow as not a massive difference between them?
     
  38. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
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    So it needs tweaking again... :(
     
  39. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    We tried this as an experiment as i had a New MAF on my BAM and Tom`s APY MAF was fubard so we though why not put my MAF on and see what happens. Toms car wasnt happy using my MAF it did work to a point but the G/S readings were well off what he had got when his MAF was working. He has since got a new MAF and his now logs the right sort of G/S again.

    Would this also be why we couldnt adjust his ECU using unisettings as its an older version cos it just says unable to communicate with ECU on Toms car.
     
  40. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    After a fashion but the curves are different so still won't be ideal...

    ...or just use the correct MAF sensor...

    Unisettings works fine on APY ME7's... Welly car was using them as a pikey map for ages... all sorted now though since he has now fitted an actual working Lambda and Bill has sorted the mapping :)...

    To draw a line under this, use the MAF sensor the map is expecting to see as a start... unless the map has been changed to take the differences into account then its never going to work at its best... there are a few maps that get adjusted around MLHFM to fine tune but any good tuner will know how to do this...

    <tuffty/>
     
  41. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost!
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    Sorry to go off topic in your thread Paul.

    I had the same problem on mine, Bill tried to tweak mine, can't communicate? :think:
     
  42. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    K-Line comms on early cars can be dodgy... have heard of peeps pulling the fuse to the instruments to help quieten chatter on the comms lines that sometimes helps..

    <tuffty/>
     

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