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My minor modding thread

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    great photo!

    First time I've seen a picture of your car posted as a piece of art rather than a cadaver for the purposes of education. Having said that your engine bay is pretty sexy
  2. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Good progress, just thinking, with the inlet working loose, do you think it is because of the inlet bracket that no longer fits after fitting a phenolic? I say this because i extended mine so it still fits and checked my bolts 10 mins ago (out of curiosity) and they are still locked down...slight vibrations??
  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Tbh no... I don't think its related to it in this case... while supporting a great lump of metal hanging off the engine is a good thing its not been an issue on my previous phenolic install as I recall having to tighten the bolts after the initial build once the car had spent some time on the dyno... I noticed it when sorting out an unrelated boost leak from a split pipe and put it down to tightening sequence at the time so I now always tighten from the middle out (like head bolts) and never had a problem since...

    I just forgot to re-check this time around as I haven't used new gaskets the last couple of times the inlets been off as they came off clean so I used a little high temp silicon and refitted..

    The loosening is purely the gaskets settling in this case..

    <tuffty/>
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Actually managed to flash in a file tonight that I have being doing some more work on... done quite a few tweaks here and there and obviously needed to cap off the boost a bit as I knew it would go mental with the stronger springs in the Tial...

    Capped off N75 to 70% as a start (was set to 90% previously) and initial runs produced a rather scary off scale boost reading over 2bar so clearly needed to be a bit lower lol...

    Capped off at 50% and although still getting a spike to just under 2bar it settles down to around 1.5bar ish... although to be fair I was more concerned about what was happening on the road at the time :whistle2:

    Only did a quick log just to see where everything was...
    [​IMG]

    Timing is a bit wiggy atm... getting pull as a result of the boost spike and slow recovery which I know I can fix but tbh I am pretty happy with where its currently at as a start point to finer tuning... LTFT's are currently sat at -3.1% which I can live with for now and to be on the safe side I have disconnected the N75 again until I can get a chance to log some more stuff and makes tweaks to bring the boost under control...

    Other nice thing is the drivability... I have tweaked some stuff and off boost performance is much better than before... felt a tad flat before but feels nice now... more timing can be added below 3k to improve this more but will leave that for the dyno now I think...

    Happy with the results... map is loads better than I remember previous ones were which goes to show how much the hardware changes had affected my original one... learning stuff all the time with this mapping lark which is quite exciting too...

    Pending any emergency tweaks this will do now until the inlet manifold is on... I want to do the final (I say final but it won't be of course LOL) stage of tuning with the final hardware configuration all done so there are no nasty surprises..

    Nearly there after all this time... be nice to finally draw a line under this 'stage' of her evolution :D

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  5. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Is your MAF maxing out ?
  6. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    yeps :)

    292.58gs from 5.6k rpm in fact.... not a problem in its self at the moment... but need to go for an RS4 MAF next...

    <tuffty/>
  7. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Got a S4 one you can have

    If you do fit a RS4 one could you let me know what % you input into the liquid gauge to calibrate the bigger maf
  8. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Just the MAF tube I assume? is it a Bosch one or Hitachi?...

    S4 one ironically should be just enough tbh as they max at 420hp... can't see me getting much over that on my setup and with how I want to run the engine anyway so I'm game..

    As for the Liquid stuff... tbh this is more to cater for the 'popular' TT modshack mofo MAF tube mod... (Modshack | Stage 2 MOFO (BAMM))... from what I understand you use a combo of this larger tube and a 4bar to 'fudge' the ecu into not adapting out the extra fuel from the 4bar whilst allowing better breathing from the larger MAF... you can adjust the Liquid to calibrate air flow for liquid but obviously it will still be out in VCDS...

    <tuffty/>
  9. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Mine read well over 200 gs at idle

    I'll get it sorted in the end
  10. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah... if its scaled right it shouldn't but you haven't had your mapping finished yet have you?

    <tuffty/>
  11. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The standard BAM S3 maf will actually read higher than an S4 one.

    The wideband sensor gives it a wider range, meaning the BAM MAF will read to ~345g/s whereas the S4 ones will only read to 330ish.

    I suspect your 292.58 is just VCDS reaching its silly internal limit, do some logs with ME7Logger and compare!
  12. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Its the tube with the S3 sensor

    PM me your address and i will get it out asap for you as i have no need for it
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Its a VCDS thing to do with 8bit and 16bit something or others... anyhoo... fitting an RS4 MAF tube to a car we did recently actually gained power (same sensor, larger tube) so from a flow perspective going larger is a no brainer... it will be using the S3 sensor as below anyway so its 'just' a case of getting the scaling right... but again this isn't the end of the world...

    Thanks mate... I will sort it shortly... thanks very much

    <tuffty/>
  14. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    The thing is when we fitted the RS4 to mine we didn't swap the sensors over so we just used the RS4 sensor

    I take it the sensors are the same
  15. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    RS4 sensor is different to both the narrow band (APY) and wideband (AMK/BAM) S3's... I think we ended up using the original sensors in both the TT and the LCR...

    I have read though that RS4 scaling on a 4 pot can be a big wiggy... need to read up a bit more about it of course but tbh I suspect teh S4 tube will do my current power level... just need to find an early S4 map pack... A-box and B-box I believe have bosch MAFs so I am sure I have something kicking about

    <tuffty/>
  16. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Is it ok if i just send the tube as i have my sensor in it
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Thats fine mate... wasn't expecting you to send a perfectly good sensor... I appreciate the gesture :)

    <tuffty/>
  18. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Hi Tuffy, is there anything to download or books a I can buy to start learning about this mapping stuff.
    How are you learning?

    Cheers
  19. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    I work with a tuner at the weekend and I am a programmer by trade... I also use NefMoto (NefMoto - Index) and a few other resources to help me


    <tuffty/>
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Why would you mess around fitting an S3 sensor into an RS4 (or S4) tube anyway?

    Just use a complete RS4 (orS4) MAF and use the MAF calibration lifted straight from the original cars file.

    Messing around with different sensors in different tubes is never going to be as accurate as a proper Audi factory calibration.
  21. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    RS4 maf sensor is not compatible for starters
  22. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    :lmfao:
  23. Colly
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    Colly The Tangerine Machine

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    Looking good tuffty I wish I had the cash to make mine crazy fast
  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Whys it not compatible, given that Andrew says hes using it...
  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Correction to this!

    I didnt account for the MAF offset when working this out, so its wrong.

    BAM MAF actually maxes out at 1053kg/hr, which is 292.5g/sec.
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    There is a discussion on NefMoto concerning RS4 scaling on a 20v..
    Load capping out

    I need to absorb this a bit and see where it goes... sadly its never just a case of copy and paste with these things as subtle differences between the hardware mean that you will have to adjust something somewhere...

    The RS4 MAF sensor is different to the S3 (049) one so would need adjusting regardless... tbh its irrelevant as its just a case of fine tuning on the dyno really...

    All part of the fun and games :)

    <tuffty/>
  27. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    is he really?
    OR
    is he using the tube ans stock sensor
  28. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I'm using the RS4 sensor so what sort of problem will i have then

    I still have the S3 sensor
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Tbh I don't know as I wasn't around at the mapping stage of the cars when Bill was playing with the MAFs.... RS4 MAFs have a thermistor to measure air temps at the sensor from what I understand... not sure of the implications of this hence the reason I would imagine using the S3 MAF sensor in the RS4 tube...

    I thought you were going MAF less? have you fitted the wideband ECU yet? you will most likely need the later 049 S3 sensor if on wide band unless you scale accordingly I guess...

    Mapping wise its all down to finding the right start point and work from there... you can run larger MAFs without scaling as you can compensate in other maps for fuelling and such... its just the gs readings will be out when logging...

    Will see how it goes... I will be rescaling mine in the S4 MAF kindly supplied by your good self and see what issues occur but generally I know stuff has been successfully tuned without scaling as long as everything is kept relative... dyno helps :D

    <tuffty/>
  30. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Decided agents it as with the maf would get better drivability for everyday driving.

    Wideband ECU is fitted and was a very simple conversion as i followed the guides on the net and all the rest was left to Paul. He mapped out the EGT bit as my APY didn't have it so i think Paul scaled the RS4 to suit as he did ask for the Bosch part number to get the right scale for the map

    With the wideband Paul thought it was better to map and much better for my power levels i'm aiming for.
  31. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Thats good then... what you need to do is a single build thread post bunging links to all your other links (as lets face it they are all over the place LOL) so that peeps can actually see the amount of effort gone into yours...

    Happy to help sort that if you let me know how you wanna play it... PM me details etc as and when..

    <tuffty/>
  32. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I'n not sure but i think S3Dave is wanting to do this conversion also so if he does i know he will ask for my help and we could do a guide?
  33. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Sure thing...

    <tuffty/>
  34. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Paul: I'm not sure the above nefmoto link is related specifically to using the RS4 MLHFM. It seems to me (from a quick skim) that once load/power starts getting very large, an internal limit in the ECU is reached.

    This would happen with any correctly scaled MAF, be it an RS4 one, V8 one, or S3-sensor-in-some-bigger-housing. The bodge-fix being to underscale the MAF so the ECU doesnt see such high load figures.


    I'm still intrigued as to why Bill thinks the RS4 MAF as a complete unit isnt compatible, when theres a lot of evidence out there showing that they work just fine...
  35. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    plugged in motor would not run stable.. on all RS4 copied values... where 049 ~(225 sensor) worked fine on RS4 values

    underscaling does work..

    maybe it was a duff sensor I dont know... all I know is it did'nt work at all, so reverted to 049 sensor in RS4 housing
  36. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    S4 MAF tube turned up today... big thanks to Andrew for this :D

    [​IMG]

    <tuffty/>
  37. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Not a problem as said i had no need for it and your needs are greater than mine.

    I know that my maf tube is good for about 800 bhp? ( correct me if i'm wrong bill ).
  38. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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  39. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    Winding back to your first post Paul lol

    3yrs later, still a no show down the strip or CastleCoombe! :laugh:
  40. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Haha, there's a few projects that have never made the strip or track. One "DaveS3" springs to mind :ninja:

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