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My minor modding thread

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. SteveBAM
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    SteveBAM Black '03 S3

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    tuffty this is some work you have done here. Great job...i will be looking to learn alot of things from your build...(i have read it all, almost..!!!)
    keep up the good work...:icon_thumright:
  2. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
    tuffy, can you please repost the link to that ebay shop where you got your hoses from?

    Thanks
  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
  4. random101
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    random101 Member

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    Hmm if i can source out a cheap GT30.. R kit i will deff jump on that boat!
  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Ok, been a bit quiet recently as I have been busy. My Golf is now back on the road after having to replace all the solid brake lines from the rear to the front (thanks again Mark for your help mate... much appreciated) anyhoo, as most of you may know after reading this thread I have been having probs with EGT's.... by probs I mean not particularly high EGT's, just too high for the ECU to understand...

    To reiterate the issue... the S3 comes with an exhaust gas temperature (EGT) probe that fits in the turbine housing of the K04... (K03's don't have them... lucky gits!!) so when I changed the turbo the probe ended up in the exhaust manifold (which is where you are supposed to put an EGT probe so it measures temp more or less straight out the engine). The purpose of the EGT probe is to measure exhaust temps as if they get too high this could indicate either the mixture running lean or just generally too high a combustion temp and so the ECU responds by en-richening the mixture so that the extra fuel helps absorb the heat.

    Problem I have is that we can't find the parameters in the map to control this and the reasonable EGT's I am getting are too high for the ECU as it still thinks it has a K04 attached. This meant my last dyno run was a bust as the ECU would flood the engine with fuel and kill power..

    I couldn't easily remove the existing EGT probe without damaging it as we had to fit it in such a way to get it to fit in the mani that we decided if it ever needed to come out it would be due to its failure... DOH!!

    Needless to say I damaged it trying to remove it so I managed to source a second hand one as they are £180 new :faint:

    I have fitted this for now by hanging the probe over the mani so its electrically connected with the aim to get a boss welded into the downpipe and fitting it there as the EGT's will be lower that side of the turbine and the hope is that they will be low enough not to cause a problem but still be able to react if the EGT's do get genuinely high. This seemed to be working and I was getting good fuelling all the way up the rev range so I had a new map tweaked with extra boost and tweaked fuelling hoping this would be it...

    Went to Ajec Racing today as Bill had booked a dyno run for the Lupo to test the new JBS K03 exhaust mani he fitted to it and I tagged on the end for a couple of runs... my first run was well low on power and the boost wasn't reaching the 1.7bar it was supposed to... a few more runs later and boost was back but a little irratic at best... back to the drawing board!!! seems that not only does the ECU have an upper param for EGT's but a lower one too... when the 'measured' EGTs got above a certain temp (50 to 100 degrees, remember the probe is dangling above the mani not in the exhaust stream itself) then I got more boost!!!

    So looks like I need to actually fit the probe before I can get a proper power run in... after a bit of faffing about the car managed 344bhp but bear in mind its on a dyno dynamics dyno which kinda under read as some of us found out recently...

    Even on 'A N Other' dyno this is a little under its first successful dyno run but there is more to come once I sort the probe out properly and happy the map is tweaked as it should...

    Bill also suspects I have a low reading MAF sensor and has a spare I will try to see if my airflow comes back as originally this pegged at 292g/s which was essentially the sensor maxxed out but I am struggling to get above 270g/s atm.

    I am going to be doing some more work on the car now the Golf is running, fitting the super size DV at last, getting the EGT probe fitted and a few other bits and bobs including fitting a Milltek back box as I have lost the will to live trying to find a box that I will be happy enough with and that will make the car quiet enough on cruise.

    All in all a little disappointing but its all going in the right direction and you live and learn doing this stuff so all good...

    Should be starting work as soon as Bill has a ramp clear... for some reason he keeps getting these things called 'customers' dropping their cars off for work to be done... damn cheek if you asked me LOL ;P

    Would like to have the car running nicely for the Santa Pod meet but I will be there regardless as the car runs fine just not at its best at the mo :(

    <tuffty/>
  6. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    LOL, Miltek? Does that have anything to do with our convo about exhausts outside Bills the other week......?
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    LOL, that may have been one of the factors in the decision mate... TBH, I was considering Milltek before I went custom but with the experiences I had with the OEM I was a little concerned that the Milltek wasn't free flowing enough to prevent EGT's going high due to excessive back pressure.

    What made my mind up was getting back into a quiet car and not being able to get the back box I originally wanted as every time I called to see when they would have stock they told me 4 weeks... it has been 4 weeks since I started calling in the middle of Jan!!! then they told me the box would only make it quiet on the outside not the inside so I gave up...

    While I am answering this though I forgot to mention a couple of other things I am going to look at.... I am looking to fit an oil catch tank (although not sure where) and remove even more unnessecary pipe work and hoses as I really want my boost and vacuum system as simple as poss so I don't end up chasing my tail for leaks like I have been... I may also try an MBC again to see if the boost can be more controlled when the ECU is not trying to mess with it...

    <tuffty/>
  8. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    What do other big boost S3s do to get around the EGT level/over fueling issue?
  9. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Bloody cars huh, more tempermental than women.

    I can vouch that despite what that dyno says, you have a quick car there with phenomenal brakes.Simples!
  10. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    I suspect they put the EGT probe in the downpipe rather than the exhaust mani like I did... learning curve innit... this is where the probe will end up now so hopefully get over this issue although changing the params in the map would be preferable for control over this 'feature'

    <tuffty/>
  11. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    So ideally you need a way of calculating the perfect position in the DP to be certain that the gases are the correct temp when they hit the sensor?
  12. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    the airflow meter reading less is a clue I think to whats going on.... its lower reading now than when first built but running correct fueling and higher boost.. which makes little sense. We know it hit a 4.98v maximum previously off the sensor which was pegged but now its 266g/s max does not correlate to the actual real performance increase its seen.

    if its not airleaks from oe pipes, its other vag "goodies" which let things down.
  13. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Time for a bigger MAF housing then and fueling compensation then
  14. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Innit!!...

    Not sure it can be calculated easily... (Bill's the engineer though not me so I expect he can:icon_thumright:) putting it somewhere in the DP downstream of the turbine housing should do the job...

    I really want to try and baseline the power with the std MAF housing before going down that route (which inevitably I will do). The plan is to get the engine running right with its current crop of mods to give a baseline for further tweakage. Its easy to just say throw a SEM mani and 80mm TB at it and huge FMIC etc... but I am still trying to get a balance between essential mods for getting things to work (exhaust, injectors etc) and mods that may give more power (larger inlet, largeport head, larger FMIC) etc...

    Of course its only a matter of time before I just give in and bung an externally gated GT35 in there on a top mount mani, 1.9ltr, large port head and 8 injectors ;P

    <tuffty/>
  15. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    YO tuffty! Another question lol

    What is your procedure for cleaning your MAF?

    Do you by any chance have your OEM TIP laying about??
  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Finally you are thinking the right way - lol
    :D
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    Thanks mate :icon_thumright:

    <tuffty/>
  18. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2010]
    ...hello Mr Audi, I'd like a new MAF please :)

    ...there are a few guides on the web mate, have a Google... essentially involves using switch/contact cleaner (have to be a solvent that leaves no residue when it dries) and the number of Audi parts dept in case it goes wrong...

    Doubt cleaning mine will make that much difference tbh... they seem to have a variable lifetime but the one thing you can count on is that you WILL need to replace it at some point...

    Yes...

    <tuffty/>
  19. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    If and when you up the size of the MAF housing i think the S4 or RS4 housing will fit? Im not sure exactly which without checking though.
  20. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    I'll be using an RS4 one mate :)

    Bill has one kicking about I can try from when he used a MAF on the Ibiza

    <tuffty/>
  21. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    Ye thats it,
    I remember checking that it would work when i was at JBS ages ago now.
    My egt sensor threw a mardy a while ago and shortly after the turbo melted and cracked. Maybe down to the "implausable signal" ? basicaly closing the ecu's eyes to bad EGT's??
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    If the ECU detects an issue with the EGT probe then it will run rich all the time... I had this when I managed to bugger mine up... If the ECU can't see EGT's it will just go into a 'safe mode'.

    <tuffty/>
  23. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    ah. Maybe the problems that caused my turbo to crack also took out the egt sensor?
    I was lucky enough to have a spare engine that still has its sensors in place !
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 18, 2010]
    Maybe, Its not just a type K thermocouple probe sadly, all goes into a potted box of electronics... it was this bit that I buggered up trying to open it. The plan was to see if I could just get another type K probe and reuse the black box as getting the probe out of the exhaust mani was going to damage it... managed to knock a surface mount resistor off the electronics in the box opening it... potting was like a flexi gel rather than normal potting compound so I could in theory repair it but found a second hand replacement for 50 quid on ebay DE so got that instead.

    If I get the thing off in one piece when I get it all sorted then I will keep it as a spare..

    <tuffty/>
  25. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Managed to pinch a ramp today because Bill had a nice big box for me containing...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Obviously some work was going to be needed to get it to fit...
    [​IMG]

    A bit of creative chopping and welding tape (tm)...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    All fitted... (really pants pic quality as I only had my phone with me...)
    [​IMG]

    Here is the old back box...
    [​IMG]

    I will sort out a pic of the tail pipes now its fitted but I will be chopping a section out first as the tailpipes stick out a little too far for my liking..

    In terms of noise its like a different car... I realised shortly after fitting the original system that it was too loud for my taste... sounded brilliant on boost though but I like my car to be quiet with a hint of sportiness and the noise killed the sleeper/OEM look I have been building my car around.

    All in all very please and looks like the Milltek isn't at all restrictive although its not quite 3"...

    I now have all the bits ready to finish off the last of this current crop of mods and hopefully get a proper run on a dyno to baseline the power of the car before I decide what is next to do (always evolving)

    [​IMG]

    <tuffty/>
  26. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    I love that welding tape (TM)
  27. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Tuffty what do you think of the quality of the milltek? I was worried after ordering mine that it would be a bit shoddy, but from what I can tell with mine it seems to be of a decent quality?
    Just wondered what sombody who knows what there looking at thinks of it?

    Cheers Matt
  28. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Build quality of the Milltek looks ok... time will tell. Tail pipes seem to go rusty on some I have seen but it maybe lack of care that is the cause of this...

    Just have to see but tbh my options were limit on a suitable back box and If I was doing this build again I wouldn't hesitate to just buy a complete Milltek system

    <tuffty/>
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Largeport
    Largeport
    Largeport
  30. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    What's that Bill? Didn't catch that,LOL

    Large port, gt35r and ext WG ?
  31. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    On it.... :icon_thumright:

    <tuffty/>
  32. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Stop it!!! LOL

    <tuffty/>
  33. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    yep.. thats the one.. seems I have a spare tubular colelcted manifold sat around me after all!

    seem a shame not to use it
  34. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    La la la la la la... etc....

    ...for sale, GT3071r, one careful owner... :jester:

    <tuffty/>
  35. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    LP sorted, your turn Bill !!!
  36. Keeno
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    Keeno Spooly Spooly Boosty Boosty!

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Liking that new backbox. Always thought the old one looked a little rough and ready from the outside.

    Also this GT3071r, does it come with fitting included? :)
  37. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Comedian... love'n your work :icon_thumright:

    <tuffty/>
  38. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    getting a price for my other GT35 getting its turbine wheel replaced... just need housings and..... brm brm...
  39. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    In the style of Agent Smith from the Matrix...

    <tuffty/>
  40. djarchive
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    djarchive Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Any updates Mr Tuffy sir?

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