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My first UK track day with the S3. Pics & Vids.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Westy, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    As some of you may know I went to Bedford Autodrome yesterday for my first ever UK track day. I had a brilliant day and didn't want it to end.

    I have found out the following things with my car that make it **** for the track:

    - Too heavy, I struggled to get the car to slow down before cornering on some bends (as my "off" video below will show)!
    - Requires bucket seats! My back hurts A LOT today from the lack of support the recaros give during cornering.
    - Too much understeer. Need to try and get a better suspension setup including a rear ARB.

    The track managed to claim 1 of my 2 exhaust trims and also shook my exhaust mani bolts loose AGAIN!

    Anyway here's a few pics and vids:

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    This was Tam's (s3baby) video of me getting it very wrong and getting into a tank slapper. As you can see, I struggled to get the car slow enough for the bend and ended up turning in too late and still on the brakes.



    Tam managed to loose it too:



    Wicked day out and I'm going to start doing a few more uk track days next year :racer:
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  3. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Looks like you both had fun! :)

    Were you the only ones there as it looks empty?!
    #2
  4. s3gazz
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    s3gazz Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Nice car pal what suspension u running pal and brake set up u got
    #3
  5. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    R32 ARB!

    West, when is the next track day?
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  6. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    The 2 offs were right at the end of the day when most had stopped racing. I'd changed my track wheels over to my road wheels so I didn't have as much grip as before.

    Currently I have KW sports suspension with OEM ARBs.

    Not sure on the next track day Finesse but I'll let you know mate.
    #5
  7. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Looking good westy.

    Is is the calipers, pads or disks causing you braking issues?

    Take a look at CG-Lock Seat Belt Lock as a interim till the buckets, couple of mates use to run them in their cars before harnesses and buckets, said it made a huge difference.

    who was the fastest S3 out of you lot?
    #6
  8. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Cheers Scott. Brakes are good but I think the car needs to loose some weight. It's just not a good car for a track car.

    Tak and I were the only two S3s there and we were both doing 3 min laps. Harrys laptimer wasn't working very well so I only got 1 recorded lap which was 3:15 but later on I was consistently doing 3 min lap.
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  9. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    You going to do a Prawn then?
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  10. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Not with this car. I love the S3 on the road and it has everything I love in a car, but as a track car it's just not that fun.

    If I do a dedicated track car I would think long and hard about what car to base it on. Normally it's very rare to see turbo charged FWD or 4WD cars in serious race series.
    #9
  11. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    look at castle combe saloons or the track day trophy or time attack Neil, the'yre almost ALL turbocharged FWD's! Bo Neilsens time attack winning astra VXR, Bills ibiza, colin Birds 500bhp leon, there are so many highly competitive FWD turbo hatch backs it's unreal!

    Looks like an awesome day, and loving the chase footage of your off. We will have to do a UK TD together at some point

    One thing's for sure though, you DEFINITELY need ARB's, can't believe there's that much body roll even with an upgraded and lowered setup!
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  12. MUSH
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    MUSH MUSH Developments Ltd.

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Sounds great, nice to hear peolpe getting involved in "using" theyre cars.

    Your deffo right about the car understeering and not being that well set up for track use, on some of those photos the car looks terribly "uncomfortable" in position due to the understeering and excessive body roll.

    Big thumbs up though:thumbsup:
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  13. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    a MASSIVE RARB will solve both those issues nicely :)

    Get the biggest one you can dude :p
    #12
  14. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Nice one guys, bedford looks nice and open.
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  15. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Ok nick good point :)

    I'll add a massive RARB onto my shopping list.
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  16. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Good stuff Neil, how many laps did you do per session in the S3? I take it it was an open pit trackday, it would have been worthwhile to test out different tyre pressures for your set up, I run 35psi rears and 32psi front for my car on 18s, and it gripped well with standard ARBs, Bilstein shocks and Eibach spring!
    #15
  17. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Forgot to ask, hi fast did you get upto along the straight!?
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  18. moredoor
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    moredoor Member

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    I was at Bedford Autodrome this monday, nice and open but it does get abit confusing around the back with those cones. Open pit lane only cost £90. Did about 18 laps till the oil pump called it a day.

    Maybe also look at using a LCR 15mm front ARB to help tone down that understeer.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    I assume that's set cold?

    if so, then it's WAAAAYYYYY too high for track use dude, I start mine off at 24psi cold, aiming for 28-30psi MAX when hot.

    On the 18's I started off at 26psi cold and they rose to 30-32 hot, and it felt good. Yours must be getting to 40+ when hot!

    Give it a try next time you track the beast!

    LCR front ARB is 19mm, I sold one recently to George_Seamons to use on his a3 track car. Fitting a smaller front bar will dial out the understeer yes, but it's not going to help Westy with his epic 'car wants to fall over' cornering stance!

    As you track it a lot Neil, I'd suggest going further than the normal 23f 19R, perhaps go a bit more hardcore with 21 or 22mm on the back to get the back comming round a bit faster?
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  20. Buzzer
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    Buzzer Member

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Great pics, great vids. Looks like a tad too much roll with the decent suspension. A good quality brake fluid like motul, right tyre pressure makes a Hugh difference. Great fun track days.
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  21. moredoor
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    moredoor Member

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Got a late(225) LCR front ARB which I think is 15 or 16mm? Even at 19mm then with a 22mm rear bar would be better than 23f 22r to aid turn in.
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  22. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    While losing weight will obviously help with braking, if the brakes were upto the job then you'd be able to slow down just fine with the extra weight.

    What exactly was happening with the brakes?
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  23. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 6, 2011]
    Cheers for your comments guys.

    Firstly my tyres were set to 28psi when hot and they were Yokohama advan semi slicks. When I lost it, I had put my 18s back on ready to go home. They are continental contact sport 3s and I didn't check the pressures of those, just wanted to see what they were like for a few laps.

    I did well over 20laps for the day and it was an open pit lane.

    The brakes are Porsche Boxster 4 pot brembos but what happens is they liked getting the ABS on as they work a little too well :)

    The main issue was my driving style, I'm not very smooth and I was leaving the braking far too late on some corners as you can see when I lost it!

    I'll look into different ARBs. I know tam has an R32 rear ARB and he has coilovers but his car was just as bad as mine!
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  24. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Here's a quick vid of Tam's car spitting flames out when he let one of our mates drive his car. He was changing gear at 7K!!!!

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  25. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    ABS activation could be dodgy brake bias?

    Whats your exact setup at both ends? Disk size, pad type etc.
    #25
  27. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Its not 8k?
    #26
  28. Eddy_s3
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    Eddy_s3 Member

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Peugeot 306 gti6 :D i would have another one for a track toy any day. Cheap, easy to loose weight, i had mine down to about 900kg and cheap to fix if anything goes wrong. Miss my old one, was great fun, you have full controle of the car and no computers slowing you down so you can take corners as fast as you need to ect... without the ESP or ABS kicking in, thats if you remove the ABS :D
    I was thinking about doing croft this month in the S3 till my engine went last week :( Will see for one maybe after the new year now. Got some good pics there aswell :o.k:

    Heres a quick few of my old toy ;) I would recommend one of these any day

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  29. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Rear brakes are standard with padgid discs and pads. Fronts are Boxster 4 pots with ferodo DS2500 and brembo max 312mm grooved discs. I have braided lines and brand new Motul RBF660 (I think!) fluid.
    #28
  30. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Given the porker calipers are pretty similar in terms of clamping force to standard S3 calipers, basically you've got a setup that resembles a stock S3.

    The 4pots will have improved feel, but they wont have done anything to actually slow the car faster. The DS2500's ofcourse will have improved things no end.

    I'd suggest you fit the same pads all round as a starting point. Having different pads front and rear means the brake bias shifts around as they heat up. To start with it will be pretty even, but the rears will begin to overheat, and fade, meaning the fronts are having to work harder and will lock up (or fade).

    People think the rear brakes do nothing, and often ignore them, but on a stock car they do ~30% of the braking, and if you lose that 30% because you've faded them, you cant get it back by pressing the pedal harder, as all that happens is the front wheels lock as you exceed the tyres limits of grip. You want all four corners doing their utmost to stop the car.
    #29
  31. colicabcadam
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    colicabcadam Guest

    [Nov 7, 2011]
    am right to say as soon as your car started to slide you came off the accelerator? with more practice you'll be able to come out of slides like that easily, you need to keep the gas constant even if it slips
    #30
  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    LOL - look @ the video and the huge lean and tilt its got, its easy to see why ABS is getting involved.. no balance at all - pogo/blamonge

    unweighted wheels will want to lock with such weight transfers
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  33. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Random ABS question, can you change when ABS kicks in?
    #32
  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Similar to stock S3 calipers! Dont make me laugh :lmfao: these calipers are unreal compared to when I ran standard calipers with RBF600, these discs and DS2500s. I will however take a look at the rear brake setup.

    Mate, I didn't even get on the accelerator as I was still on the brakes lol. That particular bend caused me issues all day as it was so tight. There were a lot of cars getting it very wrong there.

    I basically left my braking far too late and ended up heavy braking while turning, then the ABS kicked in and the back end just went.
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  35. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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  36. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Possibly but I will need different carriers to fit bigger discs. To be honest, I think if I was able to corner faster (with less roll) I wouldn't have to be so hard on the brakes. I'll start with the ARBs and take it from there.
    #35
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    I suspect the first step would be to find out which end was locking up.

    Also, we shouldnt be confusing a single ABS activation due to romping into a corner too quickly and still braking thru the bend, with a larger issue.

    If the ABS isnt kicking in when braking hard in a straight line, then it can be ignored. In that instance, bigger disks will mean better heat management and more torque for the same line pressure. You need to ensure the bias is kept though, if you upgrade the fronts, you need to be upgrading the rear by a similar amount, or you'll actually lose out in peak braking torque.

    You dont mention any fade, but it seems unlikely that you'd have had none in a "full fat" s3 on stock sized disks with a fair power hike over stock.
    #36
  38. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Aah I see good point.
    #37
  39. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    You going for a big rear ARB then? or just going to stick with an R32 option? Usual rates apply.. ;) lol
    #38
  40. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Haha, cheers for checking for coil packs for me on Saturday too mate.

    I'm thinking about something different to R32 as Tamer has R32 front and back and his is still quite understeery!
    #39
  41. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Nov 7, 2011]
    Lol no worries. Did he get it from Euro`s in the end? We never sell bolt downs anymore so yeah..If it was pushdown i have about 5 sets behind me lol.
    #40

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