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My build thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by S3 Big Andy, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. S3 Big Andy

    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Jurys out on the Clutch! it is good but maybe need something a bit more solid!

    Will know tomorrow if i have major damage! will let you all know
     
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  3. Khufu

    Khufu Well-Known Member

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    Bummer. Hope its minor pipe off/split. I take it the heat didnt damage the bonnet paintwork?
     
  4. S3 Big Andy

    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Well, its not good!

    Seems like a piston has melted due to a failure somewhere, injector, water meth etc so we will need to rebuild the engine.

    this will be with new internals and uprated ones, the problem being I am out of cash for this project! so it may be a while before shes back on the road [​IMG]

    Sad is not the word

    Anybody work for a piston/rod company want to help me out then get in touch!
     
  5. Ash B

    Ash B Well-Known Member

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    First of all Sorry to hear that Andy! Gutted for you mate....Was hoping it was nothing serious. Just a minor pipe came loose/split. Hope you manage to get the beast back on the road sooner rather then later. Also maybe some one on here my have contacts who can help you out. Sorry to hear it again mate

    Ashley
     
  6. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    this is why you cant rip the piss out of the devon country boy .....

    everyone ain't perfect we all have our opinions , obviously everyone ain't to clued up or this wouldn't happen ...???

    point is a few tunes there car to death and has different opinions and no one is right ... just advice at the end of the day but these 2.0tfsi are not meant for this kinda tuning the engine is to small ie ..renault 5 gt turbo's

    this kinda tuning should be done on rs4's or bigger engine's to avoid this kinda pressure and shyte that comes with it it would do my head in to go through this every 2 months i just couldn't be arsed

    stage 1 remap a cai and mil tech after that maybe a stage 2 max after that your asking for **** period .....
     
    #245 10blazin, Jul 9, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  7. kaz219

    kaz219 Active Member
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    Woah - Sorry to hear!

    Guess you were the ginuea pig in this and i guess we found out that the standard 2.0T engine cant take 450bhp :(

    Onwords and upwords mate - the new internals and stuff should make the car more solid and poss more power too!

    Hope its back on the road soon mate!
     
  8. Iggu

    Iggu Active Member

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    Are you two serious ? Andy wasn't the "guinea pig" for putting a big turbo on one of these cars - there are loads of people running more power than Andy on big turbos with standard internals in this engine. Do you think this website is the entire universe ? Andy wasn't even the first on this site to do it - JonnyC ran a big turbo on his S3 (over 420bhp) with no problems whatsoever. He sold the car and one year later the new owner has had no problems with it. What the "Renault 5" comment has to do with anything God only knows. And what do you mean by "standard 2.0T engine" ?? The S3 doesn't have the "standard 2.0T engine" - the internals are already very different when it leaves the factory. I don't mean to be rude but please be careful about offering up such garbage as if it is some way factual. There's enough duff information on this site as it is.

    Andy - unlucky mate. That's all this this is down to. Hopefully you'll be covered and The Phirm can get it all sorted for you ASAP. Best of luck mate.
     
  9. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Well Andy...I'm very sorry to hear this,but in some ways not entirely surprised,as many engines running this sort of power have additional piston cooling taken into account,and FWIW,the Cosworth YBs have an additional oil spray bar located pointing upwards at the base of the pistons to provide this for uprated engines.

    I'm not trying to sound complacent or smug,and I am well aware that this is a different engine,but with that system I was reliably running 440bhp or more on one car,and ALS on the other.

    Uprated pistons and rods are one step,(and I would suggest having all the internals balanced while the engine is stripped down)but I would also suggest looking into cooling,as it can massively increase reliability.

    I hope you manage to get this sorted and back on the road soon.

    As Iggu has already said,this is nonsense.....the engine is an S3's 2.0T and NOT the standard version,and Andy has followed the same general path as many others.

    This is also completely untrue....if the mods are done carefully,and in the right way,a small engine can provide very large amounts of reliable power....at one end of the scale you have the now rather old Cosworth YB,which could easily be modified to produce between 400-600 bhp of reliable race power,and well over 400 bhp of road useable everyday power.

    At the other end of the scale,and as an extreme example,the tiny 1.5L Honda and BMW F1 engines were turning out over 1000bhp in race trim.

    In short,if the engine is modded properly to produce and maintain these power levels,it can be done....the Renault 5 GT Turbo is NOT a good example as these were often modded by people who could only screw a wastegate or dump valve down.
     
    #248 S3Alex, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  10. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    because tuned up renault 5s always blew up

    In short,if the engine is modded properly to produce and maintain these power levels,it can be done....the Renault 5 GT Turbo is NOT a good example as these were often modded by people who could only screw a wastegate or dump valve down.

    lol hahahahahahahaha

    guess thats me told :Flush: still dont believe it though thats why it blew up
     
  11. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    You just need to speak to a few proper engine builders.

    Seriously though,I've been to one well known aftermarket tuner,who I found was rebuilding engine heads on a piece of cardboard on the workshop floor....that was the last time I went there.

    The one I used after that had a clean-room for building engines in,as well as a proper dyno(not a rolling road),and his engines didnt break unless you tried.
    That chap built rallycross and touring car engines,and had seen more than his fair share of other people's mistakes.

    You also need to remember that properly modifying an engine may include more than just a larger turbo.....it may include a stronger block,new head and stronger head bolts,forged pistons,balanced lightened rods and crank.....the list goes on,and will be different depending on the engine and stock internals.

    Mine had all of that and a lot more,and reliably ran 2.5bar(35psi) boost....the Escort was running 3 bar when I got it.
     
    #250 S3Alex, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  12. S3 Big Andy

    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Fact is any engine can fail, friend of mine has just purchased a 6 month old Passat diesel, and with in 400 miles blew the engine to bits!

    Modifying will add stress but done properly its ok to run big power out of this engine, what I have is a failure with a part which has then caused the piston to over heat etc.

    As for "ripping this piss" out off Devon boy, it is his non acceptance of the twintake not his tuning skills dickhead!
     
  13. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Andy, really sorry to hear of your issues. It was running so well when I was round your way, can only think that the extended high temperature usage for modball has potentially exploited the early failure of a weakpoint.

    I used to sit next to the guy who was the fleet manager for Vodafone UK a couple of years ago, and 'day in, day out' every kind of car (Audi / Jag / VW / BMW / Vauxhall) was having failures of some kind. All these cars were standard, so to me pointing the finger at modifications exclusively doesn't wash.

    A friend who has a BMW M3 CSL has just had a complete engine failure an had to have the entire block replaced at huge cost. M-Sport engine, straight six, no turbo. So it doesn't even have to be turbo.

    The thought I'd leave you all with is that whilst modifications will no doubt exploit weaknesses faster than an OEM spec car, it is no means a certain. I've had VAG cars in fair states of tune that have done 70k with no issues.

    It's easy to stand on the sidelines and profess to be wise after the event, but kicking Andy in the ******** for taking the heavy modification route chosen is NO solution or evolution for this issue. For me being a forum member means we're here to share productive information, support and help out where we can, not tear strips off each other if we have a hiccup. Too many people in Britain can't wait to say "Oh I told you so"; we can be a horribly unsympathetic race of people.

    From my perspective it's a case of giving him the respect for having the balls to strive for the best S3 he can make, then not crying like a baby or hiding the issue out of pride afterwards as he's clearly cleaning up his own mess through his own pocket. Respect for that. Hopefully as the investigations on his engine continue we might all learn something.
     
    #252 warren_S5, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
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  14. S3 Big Andy

    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Warren Nail head hit!

    I have spent 15K + on modifying this car and will now spend more to fix her, because I believe in what I am doing, I wanted a "stealth" car looks like an A3 goes like an R8! and it does.

    You folks that want to take the p1ss or mock or indeed abuse go ahead it's what I expected, look at Man U, or any team/person at the top of their game people always knock them, why? well who knows ;)
     
  15. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Jesus...
    I echo Warrens thoughts.

    I can't believe some peoples attitudes.
    Andy is good enough to share all his mods, post plenty of advice and pictures, speak to anyone interested regarding what he's done, let people know about them etc...and then honest enough to say when it lets go...and people start having a pop?

    I hope it gets back on the road sooner rather than later Andy. Don't loose heart...these things happen. Call it character building...

    Good luck.
     
  16. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Nicely put Warren.

    It's easy for people who haven't owned and run very heavily modified cars to speak from a position of little or no experience.

    Saying "I told you so" is the easiest course,and offers neither help nor sympathy,and I have already emailed Andy to say how sorry I am that his car has had these problems...I know exactly how it would feel if it were mine.

    Whilst I have a fair amount of experience with Cosworth engines,it's through the experience of people like Andy and jonnyc that I've been able to choose the most sensible mods for my Audi,and without that sort of input from other members,we all lose out.

    I hope the problem is easily found,but I know from what Andy's already said that repairing the damage won't be cheap.

    Good luck and best regards.
     
    #255 S3Alex, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  17. Iggu

    Iggu Active Member

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    Oh I can. There's a daily battle going on to prevent this forum becoming a deep well of ignorance, bullshit, gobbledegook and cynicism. And now it seems we can add envy to the mix too. Sad.
     
  18. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
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    I am inclined to agree sadly. While everyone is entitled to their opinion i don't understand why some people go balls out to say things that they wouldn't normally say in real life. IMHO if you have nothing useful to contribute, do not say anything.

    It can make moderating this place a "fun" job. Please guys try to keep it civil if you can. Otherwise it will turn into a place where you cannot express yourself for fear of moderation as other sites have become, and that doesn't make for a nice place to be.

    Andy, sad to hear she is going to off the road for a bit, i hope you can get her back on the road bigger and getter than before. I hope the reason for the failiure can be traced as i would hate to have that doubt in my mind when throwing money and time at her as you obviously have and hopefully will again. Its the pioneers that suffer, always will mate, chin up
     
  19. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    well done and well spotted let battle commence :wtf:

    how many rs4s rs6s r8s have just blew up for feck all ????? not many......
     
  20. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    im not slagging andy personally or his car i think his s3 is the fecking best s3 ever but i just got the opinion on tuning a car that much should we just all agree with each other and roast marsh mallows .....take things so personal....fecking weird
     
    #259 10blazin, Jul 11, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  21. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    coarse any engine can fail but lets see whats more reliable an rs4 an r8 or yours tuned to the hilt .....??? say what you want guys not much of a site if you cant have your say and you all become the third reich.....
     
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  23. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    The sad thing is, forums like this need decent members...people like Andy who post accurate information, plenty of pictures, honest experiences to educate others...and help others decide on doing something similar.
    They are the mainstay of places like this.

    Then there are the people who just read, and post little...taking in knowledge, enjoying reading and learning...

    Then there are the 'idiots' who like to post worthless **** to rub people up the wrong way, spoil threads, then get upset when asked to 'wise up' by people who are trying to make things a better place for all.

    Where do you sit?
    From where I'm looking Andy is at one end...and you the opposite.

    The last thing Andy - or anyone else needs - at the moment is people waving the 'told you so' flag...or he's likely to post further information elsewhere...and you know what? I wouldn't blame him.


    It's not about turning ASN into the 3rd Reich, it's about mutual respect for an enthusiast and one of the highly regarded contributors...and not rubbing it in when something lets go. Common sense really...which sadly seems to be missing from some users.


    Now, can we get back on track...or I'll be speaking to Andy to see if he wants his build thread pruning back.
     
  24. Timbo_S3

    Timbo_S3 Member

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    :applaus: I'd like to thank Andy for sharing with us everything he's done to the car, how it has performed as a result and now, most especially, when something goes wrong. That's true knowledge sharing. Too often in forums, people are prepared to talk about the ego building stuff, but go all silent when when they suffer a blow. That's not being real.

    Andy, a big blow, mate...and these things always happen when the ATM is shut. I, for one, would be mighty grateful if you could report on what might have been the cause in dues course, and let us all know.

    Upside? Well at least it's Summer over there ;) :thumbsup:
     
  25. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    This isn't even a valid comparison as neither the stock RS4 V8 or the RS8 V8 are especially highly tuned,or turbocharged.

    You would need to look to the reliability of the same engine as used in the Gumpert Apollo where it is turbocharged and tuned to between 650-800bhp depending on spec.
    THAT would be a valid comparison,both in terms of tuning,and bhp/litre.

    Of course,we've ALL pointed out that it's not the 2.0TFSi.....it's the S3 engine which is substantially uprated internally,even if it is based on the 2.0TFSi.

    COnsidering that you're asking for advice on tuning the engine in your car,it's perhaps best not to offer advice or comment to those who actually have already done this.
     
    #263 S3Alex, Jul 11, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  26. wolfbane1967

    wolfbane1967 Member

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    I hope it sorts out for you Andy
    Feel sorry :sob:
     
  27. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Whilst I was waiting to test drive an S3 back in 2007, I was offered the chance to go and try out an S4 4.2 V8 (56 plate).

    Whilst to some people it would be a perfect solution to their power requirements with a glorious soundtrack, and what is REALLY strange far more powerful than the S3 I was about to test, it just felt ponderous. There was this great noise and then..... well I guess the miles past is all I can say. There was a laziness to it, but it did shift (eventually). When I'm 40 odd it would be fine, but even Audi have now wound this big old bird back to 3.2V6 and added some charge.

    Personally I'd rather face the risks of forced induction with the enormous surge you get that making you feel you are going into hyperspace! I know it's a false economy as such as you do run the risk of premature failures, but as I am grinning like an imbecile for 98% of the miles I travel, I feel the other 2% where something could go wrong is an acceptable price to pay for the fun I have almost ALL of the time. You takes your pick......

    So back to the point, whilst I would adore a big V8 if it was tuned, cammy and rasping, I'd actually rather go for the little stressed tubby lump at this pont in my life, than the big V in OEM spec from a pure driver feel perspective.

    Hence I don't think you can compare the two. If Andy had wanted an RS4 he could have afforded to take that option (given what he's spent). The 2.0TFSi (EA888), and V8 4.2 (420bhp), both very different beasts for very different applications, both brilliant in their own way, but not strictly comparable.
     
  28. Iggu

    Iggu Active Member

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    I have to slightly disagree with you here Warren - as I didn't get this feeling at all from my S3 in standard tune. In stock form the S3 feels quite underpowered, and underwhelming, in my opinion (even though nearly all standard cars push out 290bhp). The hyperspace feeling only came after Revo worked their magic on it and took it to another level and then, oh boy then, then did the grins come.
     
  29. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Apologies, not well written by me there. I meant to imply forced induction after mods. Controversial point, but I thought the S3 was $h1t when I first tried it. Only Revo could save me from the OEM mess. Was really disappointed by it.
     
  30. Iggu

    Iggu Active Member

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    Not controversial to my eyes. :iagree:
     
  31. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    and moving on, be interesting to see whether the identified weak point can be found.

    Andy, have you got to wait to free funds up before you can go down the route of investigations?

    Any plans for what internal components you may look to use to replace OEM spec internals? Could you enlarge the bore to 2.1 or 2.2 litre on these blocks or not?
     
  32. S3 Big Andy

    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    No dont prune the thread back I dont mind people expressing their opinions.

    I am building my ultimate car, a sleeper, a wolf in sheeps clothing, and I want it to push the boundary's of both the engine and turbo, we have already proved that Revo have a fantastic map possibly the best for this engine! and Tim at The Phirm is a great builder of custom cars and engines, and I share as much info as I can so that those who choose my route can do so with the knowledge we have learnt.

    Knowledge that I pass on daily via emails to my website, little things like having to make a new bracket for the clutch cables to fit them over the new down pipe, as the turbo is a good 3in bigger then the old one.

    Once this problem and the new internals are in I will post the reasons why it went, how to avoid it, which parts I have used and why etc

    I am leaning towards a JE Piston and rod set up I like their stuff and I know it will be reliable.

    I have built the most powerful S3 8P going and want to keep that crown one Revo, The Phirm & I are very proud of.
     
  33. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    andy i just said that small engines that are tuned to that leval cant seem to take it .... it wasnt a personal pop at you when your down mate your s3 is the best s3 ive ever seen and i love it id die for that car after seeing the speed on your videos its just awesome.....

    it was just an opinion and got dived on for it ....Im not as clued up as alot of you guys on here and if my opinion is wrong thats fine but everyone doesnt need to get there backs up jeez ....

    hope your car gets sorted and for the records its awesome but i still have my opinions right or wrong ....

    didnt mean to upset you or stick the knife in in anyway it was a genralisation of my opinion on tuning small engines to death right or wrong not personally at you mate .... sorry
     
    #271 10blazin, Jul 11, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  34. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    see that's what I like about you 10blazin, you're funny, you do mean well, and above all you can say sorry. Many people don't have the balls to mention that little 5 letter word mate, so big respect to you for that. I for one completely respect to your opinion so have no issue with that.

    I'm just looking forward to seeing what pheonix rises from the ashes of Andy's car. I bet it will be mental and probably raise the bar again.
     
  35. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Likewise...I respect it when people can be big enough to say sorry.

    The pity is that many people can't do that,and it says a lot for the ones that can.
     
  36. Jamiekip

    Jamiekip Member

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    Ahhh, I see, It says they are well versed in the way of an apology, by simply making lots of mistakes?
    Couldn't resist -sorry ;)

    As said before Andy - chin up, and here's hoping you get her back on the road soon.
     
  37. PaulAr

    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    Youtube will be a duller place without the Stealth Beast!
    S3 tuned to the nuts tailing a V10 R8......essential viewing for the petrol head.
    Good luck with the fix:icon_thumright:

    Paul
     
  38. Spin140

    Spin140 Well-Known Member

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    Bad news about the engine going pop but Andy should be applauded for having a go at the build in the first place, be interesting to see what evolves, good luck with the new project
     
  39. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral
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    Not at all Jamie...what it says is that some people are capable of apologising,and some aren't.

    Plain as that,and nothing to do with how frequently one makes mistakes.;)
     
  40. 10blazin

    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    why do i make mistakes alot jamie , what would they be then i thought they were opinion's mate.....

    just cos there not the same as everyone elses it doesnt mean there mistakes mate....

    i appologised to andy if he thought it was directed at him , it wasnt it was a genralisation of highly tuned small engines right or wrong if i am ,it isnt a mistake ....

    Sometimes i may get people's back's up when i say thing's people dont want to hear .sometimes i say thing's without truly thinking what im typing i think if it wouldnt really hurt my feeling's why should it there's ....

    Some people probably may think im a **** but i dont really give a hoot's ( i do really ) :whistle2: but i just say what i think regardless of going with what everyone thinks , i just vent my concern's about cars , engine's or products ...its how people learn things if i just go with the flow saying yeah it top it great im not gona learn nothing...

    i dont really mean to get people's backs up or be a prick im just wired up a little different and im a little off the chain so to say , but if asn didnt have people that do that it would be like a pile of lemming's and by asking the thing's or saying the thing's i do i find things out and learn thing's... ie small engine's can be tuned to death ... with out blowing up ...


    it's given me a little more confidence about modding mine as i have concerns about the turbo blowing and other stuff from remap's etc , i have one kid and one on the way my car warrentee runs out in dec , so i need to think very carefully and vent my opinion's before modding as i want to lessan my chances of engine's blowing or turbo's as i just dont have that kinda money floating about ....
     
    #278 10blazin, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  41. Jamiekip

    Jamiekip Member

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    Was just teasing if I'm honest, but as you ask, you do tend to jump in with both feet without thinking.
    Read this thread again from the start and you'll see Andy has put a lot of thought in to the developments on his car, he has not dived in blinkered at any stage. However, the moment something gives up, you're quick to assume he's over done it, not used the right company, etc, etc.
    It's simply not constructive and leads the thread in the wrong direction!

    And to reference your other point about everyone agreeing with each other. All the forums I use have anything but 'sheep' posting, in fact I'd say quite the opposite. All have an opinion, but they can base it on experience, conversations or reference to other sources on the web to back up their comments. This kind of constructive discussion becomes invaluable, as it highlights all the correct questions, pitfalls, etc to consider when looking at changing something on your car... be it a light bulb, or going to the other extreme like a big turbo conversion!

    Its simply an observation, but maybe spending a couple of seconds considering what your about to post, before clicking submit might help avoid situations like what happened from post 245 onwards

    :yes:
     
  42. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro

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    Thanks Jamie, well said.

    10blazin, you will learn a lot from studying threads like this as to what is possible and what is not by people like Andy being the pioneer.

    Hopefully it will help you to make an informed choice as to how much to tune yours and when you do, you can help other memebers with the info you have also learned
     

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