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Mrs Worried Shes Been Caught Speeding...

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by jb0o, May 27, 2010.

  1. jb0o
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    jb0o North East Forum Moderator Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 27, 2010]
    Evening chaps,

    Girlfriend came home very upset this evening as she thinks shes been caught speeding on the way home. The reason why she's so upset is because she already has 3 points pending.. (I know... I know...)

    Scenario...

    She was doing 90 (approx) to get past the slow lane to make her exit, she spotted a Focus C-Max marked car parked on the side of the round-a-bout in their usual position looking over the motorway.

    Once I heard this, I told her she'd be fine as he would of had a laser-gun, and if he did get her, he would have given chase.

    I just assumed this but to settle her concience, I'm handing it over to the experts at ASN.

    Would the copper have given chase? Can she still get a NIP through the post?

    Thanks again,
    #1
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  3. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 27, 2010]
    I personally think she will be fine.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2010
    #2
  4. The Maestro
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    The Maestro S3 ~ MTM 330BHP ~ Milltek TBE

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    [May 27, 2010]
    If she'd been flashed by a Camera then it'd be a 50/50 chance depending on there being an actual camera in the box; if she'd been zapped by a laser-gun and the copper didn't chase her, nor have colleagues down the road waiting...then you've nothing to worry about!!!!!

    There's a couple of out-of-the-closet coppers on here who'll confirm this when they read it.

    Tell her to "calm down dear" (voice of Michael Winner) lol.
    #3
  5. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [May 28, 2010]
    Be a gent and take the 3 points for her seen as she took your 3 pending lol


    Think she will be fine 90 on the clock will only be 80 ish at best depending on the car , and tbh if she wasn`t stopped and it was a car then I doubt she will ever hear anything about it
    #4
  6. jb0o
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    jb0o North East Forum Moderator Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 28, 2010]
    Thanks guys

    Haha, I just got 3 points last week! We both got caught in the same week and I got an endorsement whereas she got a NIP through the post, so we think she may get the offer of doing a driving course, as she was only doing 34 in a 30.
    #5
  7. smudge_don
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    smudge_don Active Member

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    [May 28, 2010]
    If it's a laser gun and they don't give chase, then there's nothing to worry about
    #6
  8. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [May 28, 2010]
    Should be fine. If you dont get anything within 2 weeks all is well.
    #7
  9. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 28, 2010]
    If you get caught by 'community officers' holdiing the hand held (with no tripod), can you still be issued a fine?? Or does it have to be a police officer???
    #8
  10. The Maestro
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    The Maestro S3 ~ MTM 330BHP ~ Milltek TBE

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    [May 28, 2010]
    Lol, PCSO's can't do much more than: direct traffic, confiscate alcohol and tobacco from those under age; seize crugs, enter places without warrants to save lives and prevent damage to property; and issue fixed penalties for anti social behaviour, dog fouling etc..

    So fi you see one holding a pro-laser; smile and wave [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    #9
  11. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 28, 2010]
    If its a laser, then they dont have to give chase, thats the whole point of them, they can just send you the ticket in the post, they sit over a road on a bridge & click away, M23 is one of them, no need to chase you down at all with these guns.

    http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/speed1.htm

    Good read & potentially bad news for her, sorry but hey we risk these things daily huh.

    My thoughts are why do they make cars for road use that can do 160mph but have limits upto 70, why not make cars with a 70 limiter overall.
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
    #10
  12. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 28, 2010]
    Mobile camera vans use tripod lasers and never stop you, just send the NIP in the post which is why I have a laser jammer which has saved my licence a couple of times, buy her one for her birthday!
    There are myths about handheld laser guns not being allowed as evidence as they are too inaccurate but you'd need to challenge it and go to court to prove it.
    She might be lucky and they were pointing at someone else, or they had bikes further down the road to pull offenders and she got off the m'way just in time, you'll just have to wait and see.
    #11
  13. Dazmo
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    Dazmo Active Member

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    [May 28, 2010]
    The speed limit has been 70 for over 30 years when cars could barely do 70mph and needed half a mile to stop.

    Its about time the damn speed limit was raised to 80mph or we adopted germanys autobahn no speed limit idea.

    I think psycologically if their were no speed limit most people would actually drive slower, it would also wipe away stealth police sitting on bridges with guns and allow you to concentrate on actually driving the f*****g car and no worrying about what speed you are doing.
    #12
  14. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Wait by the post box!.

    If it was a pro laser op then she should have been stopped roadside to be dealt with, if it was a camera vehicle then she may get a NIP throught he post.

    Our camera vehicles are all vans but that doesnt mean the C MAX wasnt a camera van, I would imagine its pro laser and she'll be OK but just keep an eye on the post.

    If it was a national limit then chances are that she wouldnt get touched for 90 in a 70....I know some dont touch anything under 100 in a 70 limit.

    Fingers crossed but she's going to just have to sit it out.

    T

    PS: laser jammers are very VERY illegal....perverting the course of justice is a common offence for people who get found with them.
    #13
  15. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    You will be fine... its like villagers with lazer guns. they collect data for statistics. the worst you can get is a warning and you need 3 before they will get upset.
    #14
  16. jb0o
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    jb0o North East Forum Moderator Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Cheers buddy, I was waiting for a post from you being a PO and all.

    I've seen the C-Max before, as he petrols the A19 and Ive seen him on numerous occasions pulling people over. Hopefully she'll be home free!

    Thanks for all the replies guys.
    #15
  17. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    It sounds very much to me like he was doing a bit of pro laser...or giving people the impression he was getting them to slow down a bit (not unheard of). We'll have someone operating the device and others to wave the drivers in for 'the chat' when we do it.

    The device should also be shown to the driver "This is a calabrated device that blah blah blah". They display the speed and distance the car was hit from so you should show the driver at its pretty much the entire basis for the conviction.
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
    #16
  18. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    jb0o
    Best get a divorce just in case....
    Imagine the stigma she has brought upon the family and the bad example she has set to any future kids...How can she hold her head up in public ?
    No..sorry mate. My mother got a parking ticket once and we had her crated up and sent to Australia. Its the thin end of the wedge...be warned.
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
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  19. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    No ****! Picking people off with speed guns for doing 86 on an empty motorway is pretty perverted as is "guilty until proven innocent" on the NIP which has managed to reverse the entire legal system in this country. We don't know it was you speeding, but unless you grass up your loved one we will prosecute you anyway!
    The obsession with speeding in the UK is totally out of control, it has nothing to do with safety and gives the idiots out there texting and pissing about with their iPODs while at the wheel the impression they are safe drivers as long as they stick to the speed limit.
    #18
  20. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Sorry but on many occassions statistically reducing speeds in CERTAIN areas has indeed dealt with safety issues and numbers of KSI (Killed or Seriously Injured) have fallen especially in children and pedestrians.
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
    #19
  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Sorry but not many unfortunately, and the KSI's continue to rise despite the millions of otherwise law abiding motorists criminalised by ineffective "safety" measures. I don't want to get into a debate about speeding as whatever way you cut it no one can argue that after all the 1000's of camera's installed and generating millions for the treasury, KSI's are still rising. Does this indicate that indescriminate camera's/traps are making the roads safer? I concede that in certain really bad black spots they are effective but by countering poor road design more than people speeding for the hell of it. I have no issue with camera's in towns and cities, it is the easy picking on motorway bridges that needs to cease.
    #20
  22. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    have falled S ??lol
    Andy Mac. You are innocent until proven guilty in criminal law not civil law. the question is "is speeding a criminal offence" because if you get a speeding ticket you dont get a criminal record.
    There seems to be some confusion here about the difference between a criminal offence and a criminal record. All motoring offences (except parking violations in areas where enforcement has been handed over to local councils, rather than traffic wardens) come under criminal law. So there can be no doubt that speeding is a criminal offence.
    However, there is no statutory definition of a 'criminal record'. The generally held view is that motoring offences dealt with by fixed penalties don't create (or add to) a criminal record, whereas those dealt with in the courts do form part of a criminal record. So, following that definition, it's possible to commit a criminal offence (speeding) without acquiring a criminal record. With an increasing number of criminal offences (e.g. dropping litter) being dealt with by fixed penalties, rather than court appearances, it will be interesting to see how the definition of a 'criminal record' changes over time.
    I think that if an offence is delt with in a civil court ( ,magistrates) with a statutory fine or a fixed penalty it is not really true to say you should be innocent until proved guilty because you have not had a criminal ( crown court) trial........so there !
    #21
  23. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    One other point andy
    By the end of 2008 GB saw a 40 per cent reduction in the
    number of people reported killed or seriously injured in collisions, a 59 per cent reduction in children
    reported killed and seriously injured and a 36 per cent reduction in the reported slight casualty rate
    despite a rise in traffic levels of 16 per cent.2, These figures compared to those of 2000
    #22
  24. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Motoring offences are not criminal because they're not a recordable offence, with the exception of death by dangerous and drink drive etc etc.

    I've had the discussion about speed enforcement on here loads of times...in short I dont like cameras but understand that they have a role to play in certain places and at certain times of day. 3pm outside a school...fair enough, 3am outside a closed school...not so sure about that. The issue with cameras is that they cant use discretion like an actual officer can. I'd not give someone a ticket for 38 in a 30...I'd be reminding them of the speed limit and giving advice and send them on their way. However if I was to stop someone at 50mph in a 30 they'd get points, thats 2 different scenarios that I would deal with differently...a camera wouldnt.

    I dont see it as THAT big a problem though, after all we all know the limits and when you decide to ignore them you take your chance. I know I have/do, although after 11 years of driving I'm still points free.
    #23
  25. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Paddy, are you sure those figures are for the UK and not Cloud Cuckooland?
    I think everyone is aware that the reductions (if any) of KSI's have been in single figures pretty much since records began. This is more to do with vehicle safety than anything else.
    Just to summarise:
    The UK fatality level fell by 2.3 per cent in 1970-80, by 1.3 per cent in 1980-90 and by 4 per cent in 1990-2000. So far this decade (2000-2008), the fall has been 3.7 per cent. Considering the dramatic improvements in vehicle safety over the last 20 years these figures are pathetic and just follow a general trend rather than any dramatic drop when Safety Camera's were introduced. The serious injury stats are all over the place as the gov't conveniently use the police figures which have been proven to be wildly incorrect when compared to the ambulance & hospital data. The police underreporting? Surely not....

    Speeding is a criminal offence, always has been always will be, I don't think there has ever been any confusion there. As such how can you be prosecuted without any proof you were the driver? Your only option to prove innocence is to grass up a friend or relation, not aware of any other area of the law where this is the case. How convenient.....
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
    #24
  26. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Andy...
    If it was up to me i would raise the limit in a lot of places. I think the use of camera's to catch speeders as a replacement for traffic cops who catch idiots on the phone, drunk drivers, and the 99% of crimes that go undetected by camera's is wrong.

    This is where i got the stats but stats are always open to interpretation.

    http://www.pacts.org.uk/docs/pdf-bank/Beyond 2010 - A PACTS perspective.pdf
    #25
  27. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Sigh.....speeding IS NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE.
    #26
  28. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    To be fair, stats are only as good as they want to be read! Interpretation has alot to do with it too! Alot of 'massaging' of the figure does go on too.

    Reducing speeds isnt always the answer. Some accident black spots arnt down to speeds but junction layouts and road alignments, this is being looked into by many authorities but as usual, as budgets are cut sadly so are schemes.
    #27
  29. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    The long and short of it (although very unpopular) is that you know the limits...you take your chance. Its sour grapes when you get caught because you dont agree with the limit....however rules are rules.

    I dont agree with all the nationals that are being dropped to 50's and 40's but if I got caught speeding on them I wouldnt be blaming anyone else apart from myself. I'd have seen the signs and chosen to ignore them...knowing that around the next corner I could be getting 3 points served up to me.
    #28
  30. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    That's exactly my point, rules are rules, but it's the lack of discretion in the enforcement of the rules that makes them unpopular with the public. Pulled over for doing 56 in a 50 you would get a talking to and let on your way with a warning. Drivers respond far better to this than getting a NIP in the post 2 weeks after the event. It puts speeding into the same category as a parking ticket and drivers naturally feel aggrieved (whether justified or not). Automating the process just targets the least dangerous motorists on the road. The drunk, uninsured, unregistered driver gets away scott free (as do most nutters on bikes with no front plate), this is what pisses people off more than the enforcement of the speed limit itself.
    #29
  31. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]

    Well said!
    #30
  32. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Tom
    The problem is laws need to be seen as right and just so when a motorist see's a limit reduced from 60mph to 40mph in a particular area, not because it is seen as a necessity for that area, but because it is just a blanket policy, the motorist then does not see the authorities acting in the interest of the tax payer but rather fleecing the tax payer with unnecessary taxation.
    In my area, all 60mph limits are now 40mph limits. This includes perfectly safe accident free area's and open unobstructed a class roads.
    There will always be an excuse for this... environmental etc but in a time when expenditure on roads is at an all time low what people need is a way to keep the traffic moving and traffic calming, speed humps, ever increasing amounts of pedestrian crossing points and unnecessary speed reductions do not help.
    Legislation needs to be seen to have a point if it is to get the respect of the public.
    #31
  33. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Paddy, you are also right. Sadly again some decisions made with Local Authorities are made in central government and locals have no powers to change them. There is friction as not all Authorities agree with reducing 60s to 40s etc. There are certainly proven ones that are needed but blanket reductions are wrong and are being fought. With budgets being cut, road maintenance is taking a higher standing but ped crossings and speed humps will always be used in areas with proven collisions when data is annalysed for KSI's. In my area, pot hole filling is being done as a priority and to be fair to them, they are doing well. I also know that alot of speed reductions are not going ahead...maybe something that will roll out to other areas too. I do think times are changing and there is more attention in trying to keep traffic moving rather than produce pinch points. (unless thats only in Cheshire lol)
    #32
  34. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [May 29, 2010]
    It varies from area to area with dropping limits...as soon as I get into Warwickshire all the nationals are now 50's :(

    Perfectly good roads but Warks LA dont appear to like nationals any more.
    #33
  35. The Maestro
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    The Maestro S3 ~ MTM 330BHP ~ Milltek TBE

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    [May 30, 2010]
    Reading through these spats on technicalities, you're all right but you're fiddling over statistical details that have nothing to do with the human psychology of anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car! As A3 rightly said, if you get pulled it's you're bloody fault, and pulling stats to define anything thereafter is futile. We all live in different areas, with different demographics of persons driving cars which changes every individuals' perception of driving, other drivers and the policing policies in those areas - collective areas that form National statistics that do not directly reflect the situations of specific areas.

    Arguing the legal system against the practice of the police thereafter is again, futile. The police, in the main, would love to raise speed limits and would much rather focus on mobile users etc than speeders. Realistically (as an RSPA advanced driver) I'm safe doing 100 on an empty motorway; but I'm not safe doing 60MPH on the same motorway whilst reading a text on my mobile (which I do not do...as I keep telling the Mrs when she says, "why didn't you text me back?"). I know that, you know that but I'd get quickly nabbed for doing 100mph long before a copper saw me with my mobile in my hand (hypothetically). That's the problem in some of your arguments; you're more visible as a speed-breaker than as a mobile user!

    Like many of you I drive all over the UK and know most of the motorways. For long journeys over 200 miles I drive at night and on a few occasions I've passed police cars on slip-roads at 2am when I've been doing 120mph on an empty motorway! So, adding fuel to an argument without intending to, those police officers were not looking out for speed-breakers, obviously, or made determinations based on my road position/bahaviour etc! Each force polices differently whilst keeping within the sometimes flexible boundaries of the law and the police commission's directives. So I guess that fair law enforcement ("fair" as in sensible and moral per-se, not selfish) all depends on where you live?

    Whatever, lol.
    Last edited: May 30, 2010
    #34

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