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Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by stickertone, Dec 29, 2009.
anyone know what "the tuners" do with the cam timing?
There really wont be much difference across every standard S4 engine as to how much timing it cant run. Yes, you might be able to push on a degree or two, but even the stock map pulls timing on craigs S4 (albeit it was on 95octane fuel when i was logging), so i dont think its worth it. Once you get into major engine mods then sure, a custom map is what you want, but for a remap on a stock engine, it seems entirely pointless to me, when your already pushing the turbos pretty close to their limit with a generic remap.
Your talking about the difference between an MRC generic map giving you 310-320hp and a custom one giving you 320-330. ANY changes that flow more air, will give more power, regardless of wether you use a generic or custom map. Just like fitting an exhaust and decat to a completely standard S4 will give you more power.
but what do they do with the cam timing?
not a clue, I dont even know if its a true variable system, or if its just an "on" "off" type thing?
its variable, says so in the s4 guide book thing, it shows how the ecu varies the cam timing with revs in order to make that flat torque plot
well i braved the snow this morning and went to mrc.I found them to be very friendly... very knowlegeable and efficient, they steamed into my car straight away finding problems galore...doh! it needed 2 dump valves, 2 egt sensors, a temp sender, and an maf!!!!! (bank balance in for a dent...£1100 in total inc mapping ), he then went on to chip it now the engine was healthy, the car is now completely different to drive, much more grunt.... unfortunatly havent been able to give it death yet as road conditions havent permitted, but am confident it will fly. CHEERS MRC, all the boys involved were all top men.
oooh dear £1100...
funny how the maf is always faulty...
You the sticker man who's been down robsons?
Now i know its you, small world!
i no sounds daft but, why is there so much power differnce with s4 and rs4 b5?? just thinking of a s4 and looking at power gains
thats me... is that the part time worker??? i was still there a while after you left tonight...
Well you need the overtime to pay for them parts mate! I got a settlement on my car today, they're giving me 10k for it which aint bad!
they have very different engines. audi put a lot of work into making the rs4 capable of living with 50% more power than an s4
main difference would be a pair of larger turbos though
Flowier heads, KO4`s, bigger injectors and intercoolers. maf, engine management, bigger downpipes making the RS4 115brake more than the standard though very capable 265bhp S4. However 350 reliable bhp and 500nm is not unheard of from a tuned S4.
ill say it again... ELEVEN HUNDRED POUNDS! doesnt anyone else see that as faintly rediculess?
I hear you. Not cheap but obviously there were probs. Labour @ £65ph, the remap, maf and dv`s plus the dreaded vat
hey, im the wallet inspector. your wallet is faulty, you need to give me all your money.
he has been told this that and whatever. my s4 had one faulty DV after 115k miles, this one had both and a MAF (every car ever seems to have a faulty MAF)... without proof that the work needed to be done (with two faulty dump valves youd have compressor surge left right and centre, youd know ALL about it.
"no cheap, but obviously there were probs"
i cant beleive how people have such stupid blind faith in garages
Thats a matter of opinion. Stickertone is happy with the service provided, paid his money, blind faith or otherwise.
no, its just blind faith and then handing over stupid amounts of money, money thats a BIG %age of the value of the actual car. that amounts to nothing more than plain daft
with that money on top of the purchase cost of the car, im sure he could have got something good to actually start with
@Matt82 - Do you reckon your car is on it's original MAF? If it is, how do you know that it's performing correctly? You seem to dismiss the witchcraft of Vagcom, so I guess a practical man such as you would drive along at WOT with a multimeter in your hand measuring the voltage across the MAF sensor?
Also, why would a faulty DV cause compressor surge? Surely that wuold only occur if it was a piston type DV (well, two of them) stuck closed which wouldn't let the pressure escape back into the inlet (or atmosphere if you are a chav). When the factory fitted DV's fail it's due to the diaphragm tearing. The result is not compressor surge, it's boost pressure leaking back into the Y-pipe, thus causing your turbos to overspin as the ECU keeps the turbo wastegate's shut in a bid to maintain the requested boost pressure.
In summary, a faulty DV on an S4 causes a boost leak, not compressor surge.
You may be good with a spanner in your hand but you've still got a lot to learn about these engines and your attitude on forums.
matt82- Once again, opinion! Perhaps you should take this up with stickertone and inform him he should have bought a better car!
where have i dismissed vagcom (did you make that up)? i used that to sort my car which was in limp mode before i got home. a silicon boost hose kit sorted that. £70. i wonder how much lube youd need to bring to MRC to get it done?
my car is not on the original MAF, that was changed at some point in the past. as for MAFs and vagcom, i have an AMD remap on my car. its well documented that the airflow figures will no longer resemble the figures on a standard car, or ones remapped by other tuners (it seems)
mine sees (from memory) >290g/s... so i may as well ignore that as mine is not making close to 400bhp
as for a faulty DV, i played with the faulty one mine had. yes it created a boost leak (both back to the y pipe and back toward the n249, but the valve would not actuate. so youre wrong. if you had boost and then closed the throttle, the valve would not recircuate back to the y pipe at all because with the dead diaphragm the vacuum wont open the valve.
ive done it, ive tested it myself.
i may not know the engine back to front yet, but thats no real excuse to go to these places and just blow silly money on things you dont know need replacing. this is why ive tried to stress to other members here before that you should test/diagnose things before getting your wallet out and blowing money... that IMO is very good forum attitude, trying to help people. getting people to blow stupid money into these decpreciating old cars isnt smart
Their labout rate is not cheap, I'll agree (although probably worth it), and given the amount of parts and service gained I would say it's a fair price. Certainly didin't set my alarm bells ringing.
I would rather drive a car I know works and performs correctly than one that doesn't. Maintaining an ageing performance car does sadly present bills of that equate to large percentages of the value of the car. That's why as cheap as they get to buy you still need able funs to run one and keep it maticulously.
Lets face it, there was all sorts wrong by the sounds of it. I had my dvs replaced as they were the originals and the cost of the dvs is a whole lot cheaper than suffering the potential consequneces of a boost leak. I also had the maf replaces as it was not faulty as such, but under reading. No point trying to eek all that can be had out the car (safely) while having a MAF that puts you down 10% to start with.
Actuall looking at how many faulty components you had, that's really not a bad price at all! Yeah a dent in one go but looking at what was needed I think you got a good deal. Enjoy the map. Took me a while to adjust to mine, it would catch me out with the extra surge of power over and above what i was expecting. Did you go generic or custom in the end?
I've found myself in this situation so many times and im a stickler for shelling out my hard earned wonga on parts for cars that may not need replacing.
I have a vauxhall 2.0 turbo diesel van which i have thrown over £2000 at, replacing high pressure fuel pump, injector seals, new cyclinder head, now these engine blocks are very simple but its all the parts which bolt onto the engine, (diesel injection system) which are very complicated and can be hard to diagnose faults on. Anyway 4 separate garages later and one diesel specialist and a 1000 different opinions my van is now running sweet but will not start if has less than a quarter a tank of fuel in it!
A simple test ive done with my s4 is checking the in gear times, (even though i have a mityvac, vacuum/pressure tool to check for leaks), now surely if i had a boost leak etc then my recorded times would not tally with manufacturers figures?
But ultimately you have to put a bit of faith into specialists that work on these engines day in day out, and they may sometimes replace parts that may be on there way out so it gives them a 100% healthy engine and no come backs 3 months down the line when the engine/parts are being pushed that bit harder after a remap.
I can see Matts point. I'm very skeptical of ALL garages. The problem is that its not always possible (or the garage people arent capable) to tell exactly what the cause of a problem is, so you end up paying for half the car to be replaced.
My parents had a B5 back in the late 90's when they were still a current model. They baught it cheap with an airbag light on and took it to the audi main dealer for some recall work and to fix the airbag. They came back with a bill of about 700quid for the airbag, and they told audi to forget it, they'd have to wait a few months before they'd have the cash. 6 months later it went into a different garage for a service, this time a VW dealer, who told them it was probably a faulty contact ring in the wheel, and a replacement ring was about 70quid fitted. If that didnt fix it then it was a new airbag, at £££. They threw a new ring on, and the problem was rectified.
A faulty maf is usually very noticeable, unless by faulty they mean it needs a clean and is reading every so slightly under. I very much doubt you could drive the car around with a faulty maf and not notice its busted.
Its also amazing that all the EGTs broke simulaneously, craigs car has one datestamped "01" which is slightly faulty and pops a fault code now and then, and the other dated "05", which is fine. The power drop with busted EGT is huge, so unless you drove around for many years with one faulty EGT and no power waiting for the other to fail, i cant see it...
DV's are cheap, and we changed his jsut for peace of mind, even though the old ones are fine.
you would defo know if the MAF was buggerd, mine was bummed about 5mnths ago and as it was bummed when i bought the car i didnt know any difference until one day the car shot off like a rocket so gave a guy a call and explained the problem and he said a dead MAF, being a novice at that time on the car i didnt have a clue wot he was on about so when we put the new maf on the car was in tip top shape, the car felt like a N/A 2.7 with a buggered MAF and when it was changed it was a different car completely. you would know if a MAF was knackered. wot sort of power drop does the car have when an EGT is gone? i know wot a buggered lamda felt like and that was horrible with the car feeling like a tracktor juddering down the road.
EGT just makes the car flat. Runs minimum boost and a retarded map and doesnt go much at all.
MAF may not have been buggered but was under reading. What is the point of tuning a car if you aren't even bothered about it being up to par in stock form?!
matt. i know it was a fair amount of money.. but break it down.. £400 for re map etc.. that leaves £700 for 2 dv's a maf and 2 egt valves, and a temp sender. the parts.. inc coolant etc were a shade under £500 take the governments £100 vat out the equation and it leaves £100... i dont think i had bling faith in the garage, i trusted them 100% and my trust was rewarded by a car which drove 200% better when i left mrc. I'm used to paying for what i want and i was happy with this, i've also got a few other cars, one being a 413bhp cossie 3 door.... now that knows how to cost an arm and a leg!!!!! I'd much rather spend a bit more money and get the right job rather than mess about and try to save a tenner , but thanks for your consern for my wallet... you could always donate half if ya like?????
did i mention that the car is a really nice one??? never had paint and belonged to someone who run an audi main dealership... and then belonged to a good friend of mine so i knew the car, and that was the one i wanted... i doubt you can grasp the concept of this judging by your comments, you'll like this.. i even bought the car before i drove it.. just because i knew how well it had been looked after.. i think the reason it had a few faults was it had only done 43 miles in the last 11 months.. it sat on the previous owners drive as he was using other toys.
sticker mate, im looking to get upto MRC in the next few months for a custom remap milltek and boost gauge, everyone i have talked to or mentioned MRC too they just smile and say "oh yes" about them and if i was you and they hit me with that problem you had with yours then id be happy to pay out for the work done as the boys at MRC seem to be the number 1 guys for our cars, they must be good if the boys in the US know about them and buy products from them so cant wait until i get the cash to get up there for the work done on my car. off up there soon for a health check. how is the extra power mate?
twiggy. its a different car, i havent been able to give it death yet as the weather is ***** at the moment, but it feels a lot lot stronger.... it prob wasnt even making standard power before... it was on par with my mates 328 bmw... now it blows the doors off him at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. Go to mrc mate, they're spot on... they werent just bolting bits on willy nilly, they checked and diognosed each problem in turn, then consulted me on weather i wanted it done... telling me the prices. It boils down to if the car needs it.. then it gets it... no point in saving a few hundred quid and not getting the end result.. it then makes the money you do spend a waste!!!
minter needs £1100 spending on it to make it run properly SHOCKER
i got the car at the right money... it is a minter .. and you can only count £700 of the £1100 to get it running 100% the other 400 was my choice.. I dont think its over the top as the head gasket( on my cossie) alone...no labour, stretch bolts etc.. was £445...
You need to be a rich man to run a cossie. I know a few people with big power cosworths....BIG MONEY!
Fair play to you for the Audi, you make yourself happy! These people who are so concerned about what YOU spend YOUR money on is sad! These are the people who but a second class stamp cos they cant face paying more for a first class! Lol.
You cannot not have what you want without spending the money. I now have to start again as mine has been written off now, gutted or what! I jacked in robsons today, just wasnt getting on there, didnt like it! Officially unemployed and carless....for now....
I agree stickertone, if you deem it required then why not spend what you like....
Matt you do offer great advice at times but seriously lay off dude on those who do pay out on what's required...As I have said in the past we are not all qualified grease monkey's..... (no offence implied)
always someone who has a negative opinion about things, stickertone you couldn have gone to a better company for the car you have as ive heard only the best from other peopke about them. the price is very reasonable for the work you had done as im sure a lamda is close to £100 and i think but dont quote that EGT are similar money and you needed 2 so there is £300 before they do the other things plus labour so i think you had a good deal there with a dog of a car before and now a monster after the trip so well done mate. it all boils down to money, if you have it and can afford to spend it then who cares wot you do with it, id pay that sort of money all day just to know my car is now healthy and packing nearly 320hp
cant wait till april to get mine done.
Nor me twiggy, I'm either planning to go to MRC early march or late april (after a trip to centre parc)...
You gonna go just map, custom or full shbang with miltek also?