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MOT EU regs on no ECU mods

1animal1 Sep 10, 2012

  1. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Hiya chaps!!

    Long time :) Hope you're all well

    Just thought I'd post here given the wealth of experience - I have been speaking to a colleague who was going to have his car mapped, only to be told by a specialist 'I wouldn't bother, once the EU ruling comes in they will be illegal'.

    He then went into how they will detect maps, by doing an emissions test and comparing to the cars original values.

    Now several things here ring alarm bells, firstly dont cars emissions change with age? second, I can't possibly see them doing this on old cars given the sheer amount of vehicles that will be mapped and thirdly, I'm pretty certain an emissions test wouldn't be that conclusive would it?

    cheers as always

    T
     
  2. Lewis583

    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    You can't tell by an emissions test whether or not the vehicle has been mapped or had the ECU tampered with unless it doesn't meet the limits for the test(if remaps didn't meet emissions regulation everybody would be posting how their car failed the MOT etc).

    The only definitive way to test whether the ECU has been tampered with is via diagnostic interrogation which we aren't allowed to do.
     
  3. ruffrida

    ruffrida Well-Known Member

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    Nah this is a pile of!!

    People have been re-mapping cars for yrs and noone has ever failed on the MOT.

    The only thing i have had a fail due to something like this was my induction kit on me xr2, and how long ago was that, over 15 and that was easily solved, put the pipe up a diffident exhaust, which you cant do now.

    Like Lewis said the only way to check is by doing a diagnostic check, and that aint part of the test.

    On the back of this, some of the new laws are getting mad, all cv boots, joints and rubbers etc etc, used to fail when they were split now they only have to be cracked / perished and its a fail. There is plenty more like this coming in, like pimped number plates, i have a carbon effect lettering and it is border line pass now, and even in 6months this might be fail as the ministry want every number plate exactly the same..
     
  4. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    It's more to do with adopting European principles surrounding 'banning modified ECU's' - if we follow this principle then we could well be buggered.

    The 2nd part to this is how would you actually tell, you can't tell if a car is mapped unless the ECU is bench tested at the manufacturer is my understaning - but this chap seems to think a remap will affect the dynamics of the emissions, which i suppose it has to to some degree.
     
  5. ruffrida

    ruffrida Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd part to this is how would you actually tell, you can't tell if a car is mapped unless the ECU is bench tested at the manufacturer is my understaning - but this chap seems to think a remap will affect the dynamics of the emissions, which i suppose it has to to some degree.

    yeh i am with you here, but there are certain regulations it has to be in and remapping would not push it beyond on, as lewis said there would be loads of people on here kicking off that there much loved pimped s3 has just failed due to it running mad bhp, er dont think so !!
     
  6. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Exactly, that was one of my responses to my mate - the only reasonable suggestion is that they make them detectable via OBD and make this rule applicable to newer cars... to save the backlash
     
  7. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Most remaps arent even detectable by the main dealers diagnostic tools...
     
  8. Reload

    Reload Bird is the Word!

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    I think before we all get too excited it's worth bearing in mind that these regs are just a proposal ATM. If, and it's a big if, they came onto force it would likely be banning the 'ebay special' unregulated parts only, which could be seen as dangerous, any more would be extremely difficult to regulate. Just my personal opinion.
     
    ruffrida likes this.
  9. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    nope, personal opinion appreciated ;)

    What I want to know is, if the emissions can detect a change from standard?and also what variables would skew that result. Age etc

    We know anyone but a professional mapper or manufacturer can detect it - so the ONLY way for an MOT to detect would in my mind be emissions - just trying to fail safe our investments :)

    The other consideration is that diesels don't have emissions tests currently -could this also change?
     
  10. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    in the realms of the current emissions tests, unless its a very odd (read likely crappy) map then its exactly like it came out of the factory on the idle and fast idle no load emissions tests
     
  11. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    cheers for that Bill - that's exactly what I was after.

    My mate went to a VW specialist (who doesn't map)... who's gone into the realms of this EU legislation. Basically scared him off the idea.

    No big tissue as he only has a 1.9 110bhp Golf, but the principle is, the fella didn't know what he was talking about.

    I must admit, I thought there would be some differences given an engines life span, mapping etc - which was my real query.
     
  12. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona Audi S3 quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    I wouldn't worry Tim, have you ever seen a diesel emmissions test? lol They just stick a probe into the exhaust, then the computer detects exhaust gasses, and tells you to blip the throttle to max and release, and it will only fail on excessive smoke basically!

    On petrol cars, you need to raise the rev limit to 2-3k revs and hope the exhaust gases are within the parameters for 30secs.

    My Passat derv with 195k on the clock running a tuning box has never failed the emmissions test!
     
  13. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    that was another point mate - I have a DPF so no smoke, but wasn't sure why there wasn't a diesel emission test...

    Whether the emissions were so small, and whether they would introduce a test to detect small changes from standard - pie in the sky stuff, but if you don't ask, you don't know ;)
     
  14. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    These little roumours pop up from time to time and they soon disappear. Like you say Tim, it'll have to come in on new cars like when they introduced catalytic converters. And those of us with a de-cat know how easy it is to get round that little test :ninja:
     
  15. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    now then matey!! hope you're well :))

    what the hell have you done to get that beast running 13.2's!! - that wasn't at GTi Inters timing equip was it?? :)
     
  16. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    It would cost too much to police concidering the amount of already modified cars on the road. So the only way the could do it would be to say cars after x date are not allowed to be modified a bit like pre 1993 cars being allowed to run no cats etc.

    Also how many cars are out there now with mods undeclared to insurance companies that have accidents and still get pay outs as no one properly checks this very often at all.

    And with second hand cars most people wouldnt know what a mod was if it him them in the face! look at the guy recently who found his car running a catch can setup using a beer can which was undiscovered until he put his car into the garage.
     
  17. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    I'm good thanks Timbo, how about you?

    Those times were indeed from Inters a few months ago. I'm only running a standard K04 with a few engine tweaks ;) Its not even mapped properly at the moment either so there's more to come.
     
  18. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Dont we have enough to worry about.........like having a beer...;)
     
  19. Snash7

    Snash7 Member

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    one thing about this rule which they can pi** everyone off who has already spent hundreds of £££ on there **** hot map's is.
    If they bring this rule in then they want your car to be as it come out the factory so that would mean oem tip's oem intercoolers oem well you guy's get the point so your map's wouldnt be getting there full potential as you would have to go back standard.
    This is getting out of hand now.
    Especially as im thinking of a map myself.
    Cheers guys
     
  20. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    :whistle2:
     
  21. sportstractor

    sportstractor Chugger

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    I was thinking the same, a map shouldn't change the emission values, and the only manufacturer values are with no load.

    Sounds like a chinese whisper to me.
     
  22. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    blimey... you have to be running NOS or something?? lol....

    I'm fine cheers fella, all grown up now - still racing **** cars though, that'll never change, I'm like a bull on a red cloak :)

    Dave!! alwite Dave!! already in hand mate..... :)

    You singing along with my lack of english skills sir? :) ;)
     
  23. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    I was just about to pipe up with '2.0 tdi you big puff!!' but then realised, I can't say s**t :)

    How ya doin fella :)
     
  24. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    Don't be like that David, you didn't even run! I know the timing gear isn't the best but I was still smashing a lot of stuff on the same equipment. Was only 2 hundredth off Stacey's BT time too.

    Anyway back on track. Is there any reading on all these new proposed rules.

    Modding cars is huge business in the UK so these new rules could put a few places out of business if they do come in as aggressive as suggested. Personally is smells like BS
     
  25. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    naaa I haven't read anything - it was just cos this 'advice' my mate got was from a very good VW specialist in Shef, so thought I'd better check it out (good source).

    Well

    Not so good now :)

    thank ****!!
     
  26. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Only teasing mate....like you said it was back to back with everyones times so excellent effort...
     
  27. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Im ok Tim, nice to see your still racing... Hows the beemer going?

    And English skills noooo, we dont have them we are northern....;)
     
  28. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Exackery Davey :) On Ilkly Moor Baaa TATT!! and all that :)

    All ok thanks mate, got most of the issues sorted now and M sport kit on, so looks better than it did - yet to fit a new rear suspension compessor tomorrow and have the Auto box serviced, then alls good for a life 'hammer'!

    Hows yours? was quite heavily modded when i left, have you got much more out of it?


    Oh whats ya thoughts on this - I'm torn on some rear window stickers, thought being overtaken by an estate is one thing, but by one with 'Powered by fairy dust' or 'Hello Kitty' signs would be soul destroying - what do you lot think? lol
     
  29. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Its Near the end off the modifications for now..ish... final tweak at RS tomorrow as it happens....320 + will be nice... ive had it up to 357 with a jammed wastgate....and 30+ psi :readit:lol
     
  30. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    jaysus!! thats come on!! BT? or Hybrid?
     
  31. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Just an Hybrid 2283, not saying it would have lasted long at that psi though....:no:
     
  32. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Sounds like you're ringing its neck though, good work matey.

    On another note, wasn't Shaun (who has my old Dolphin) arranging a northern meet at some point?

    Oh, which sticker ya thinking Dave, or shall i leave it :D
     
  33. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Yeah met Shaun, and your old car...:icon_thumright: (nice lad) And think he is sorting a meet out...
    Fairydust would be a killer....:) or fairy soot....:lmfao:
     
  34. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    nice one :detective2:

    Ooooh yeah that'd be good, I might know someone too who'll be able to scan the original pink 'powered by fairy dust' and be able to change it - It's always someone else who has the best ideas :) .

    So far only played with a few boring cars :( Type R's, big Jags/Mercs, Chav wagons and a 350Z...
     
  35. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Oooo a 350Z...How did that fair...?
     
  36. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona Audi S3 quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Lewis Ramilton would look good! :laugh:
     
  37. sportstractor

    sportstractor Chugger

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    Lol thanks. The sportback is a stopgap thankfully, thinking of an e90 330d.
     
  38. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Well I played with one in my 8P and completely ruined it, lad was in front going through Rotherham, had several times where he was able to boot it in different conditions/variants, and i just seemed to have loads left whilst smelling his fumes as he booted it - same with the BM in Sheffield (although Im pretty sure the BM is slower than the 8P, or at least it feels it!), funny thing was the Sheffield occasion, the lad waited and so obviously was trying to set me up, then booted it from the low 20's on a dual carriageway, I was so pleasantly surprised as I was almost sure i'd level peg or lose a bit.

    Most of these would so obviously beat me on the twisties with a decent driver, why I only play on the carriageways or long countires generally. :)
     
  39. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    Nice car that mate - Just do a bit of reading up on the 30d's before you jump, they have a nasty tendancy for manifolds cracking, not sure if this was resolved with the e90's

    I'm back to Audi after this I reckon, if this wasn't so well specced I'd be in an Audi now.... not a BM fan
     
  40. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Wasnt the baffles/flaps in the mannis a pain for collapsing, My mate has had is welded twice...

    I was surprised you got rid of the 8P S3 so quick TBH... it was Very nice...
     

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