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Most BHP on a B5 1.8T, want a new project

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by LeeT, May 22, 2011.

  1. LeeT
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    LeeT Member

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    [May 22, 2011]
    Alright guys, i currently own a B6 1.8TQS which will be getting remapped on friday and a C5 A6 4.2 Quattro. Ive only recently bought the B6 and now have an urge for a turbo project. My plan is to buy a B5 aswell but... how much bhp can i expect to get out of a 1.8t b5. Do most opt to tune the quattro version? I have had some very quick cars in the past including maserati 3200gt, mk4 supra single turbo 700hp+, 380hp evo8, 370hp evo6, impreza wrx 320hp, 300zx 400hp, 200sx s13 300hp, B6 S4, C5 S6, etc etc.
    I built all of the above cars myself and just have an urge to tune a turbo car again after driving the b6 recently. I have heard of big bhp out of the 1.8t so what is the best engine/year to go for, for ease of remapping? Best turbo etc for say 400bhp? possibly a bit lower but i feel like a challenge. ORRRRR, do i just go for the S4 and go from there? I like the idea of the 1.8 T because of its cheap initial outlay if im being honest but would consider the s4.
    thanks ..lee
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  2. tdia4
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    tdia4 TDIPOWARRR

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    [May 22, 2011]
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  3. LeeT
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    LeeT Member

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    [May 22, 2011]
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  4. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [May 22, 2011]
    I would just get an s4 and stick on the k04 turbos from the rs4 with a few other things and a map to get something like 450bhp. It would cost a lot to get the 1.8t to that and wont be nearly as driveable for a road car.
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  5. LeeT
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    LeeT Member

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    [May 22, 2011]
    thanks for the reply Ian, i was just looking at a budget outlay i suppose. Any pics of your car in yellow?
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  6. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 22, 2011]
    I disagree on the driveability of a big turbo 1.8T on the road, mines as easy to drive as it was when stock, just a much sharper response from the go pedal. S4's are damned good if you can tolerate working on it, just a shame its engine out to do anything on the turbo's and quite a few other ancillaries. LeeT you should google some of the B5/B6 VR6 builds, these are making some serious numbers and you can run a mahoosive single turbo set up which you'll struggle to acheive using the 2.7TT, an R36 motor with a big single and the quattro driveline would be a mega road car, but no doubt will cost a packet though. Check this out for a taster

    Big Boost's B5 S4 VR6 (BAT style) :: motorgeek.com

    Oh and the max output I've seen from a 1.8T based build is 750 AWHP.
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
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  7. LeeT
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    LeeT Member

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    [May 22, 2011]
    thanks for the reply. i have just read your whole build thread and i must say it is a bit of an inspiration. I'll check out the link you posted too. So is there any point in tuning a FWD or should the focus be on the quattro?
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  8. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 22, 2011]
    No worries, I'm glad you enjoyed reading about my build, the build thread i posted earlier for VRT build is in another league to mine although im quite sure the price tag will be as well. These 20 valvers are a very good motor and can make heaps of power. That said I really do think you would be wasting your time trying to put down any serious power through a FWD set up, the quattro is what you want for those neck snapping launches, wheel spin will just get annoying as i think i might still be spinning in fourth! Don't think the 4wd will get boring, mine 4 wheel drifts out of roundabouts with ease when the mood takes me. My 427hp was enough to absolutely annihilate a Range Rover Overfinch and crept away from a carrera 4 so aint slow.
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  9. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [May 22, 2011]
    Quattro all the way. No point trying to put decent power through the front wheels when you have a 4x4 option. Pic of mine
    [​IMG]
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  10. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    like any mad turbo project your gearing is going to be the limiting factor.

    If I ever get mine built I am aiming for 400 tops but more like 3-350 daily.

    there are some mad GT35/40'd 1.8t's in the US running 5-600.
    even with quattro you are changing gears so quickly they are useless ratios in stock form.

    a diesel box or custom gearing is the way forward.

    I once drove an EVO 6 with mad power and it was undriveable as the first 3 gears were gone in a flash, 1st and 2nd were spin fests
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  11. bmarshall
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    bmarshall Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Its not that cheep to build a high hp 1.8t. Rods, clutch, turbo, mani, tune, exhaust, intercooler etc.
    I'd go s4 too.
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  12. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    not a cheaper option IMO.
    not unless you have your own garage and like pulling engines every time you change a turbo, downpipe etc etc

    they are more expensive to buy to begin with, at least a couple of grand more, that buys you a lot of engine.
    its a simple maths thing 6 of every engine component and double the number of turbos to buy or four and one.

    main reason I went 1.8t
    Dont get me wrong I love the V6 noise and power delivery
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  13. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    While an S4 might not need rods until quite a bit more power, its still going to need a clutch, two turbos, tune, exhaust and intercooler if you want to take it much above 300hp.

    The cost of the second turbo and the fact you need to pull the engine to fit them, more or less equals the cost of fitting some rods to a 1.8t.

    So the 1.8T is certainly the cheaper option, and its also much more sensible an engine to work on, spare parts are cheaper and more readily available as the engines fitted to millions of cars.

    There does come a point where a big power 1.8T is going to start losing out on drivability ofcourse. I'd imagine a 600hp S4 will be a much nicer drive than a 600hp 1.8T for instance. Personally i suspect 400hp is about the limit i'd want to take one to.
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  14. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Can't quite understand whats brought you to that opinion Kev, based on what? I have to say I wouldn't think another 200 horsepower would all of a sudden make my car any harder to drive on the road, surely its all in the mapping. The OP clearly has experience of driving high HP boosted cars so im sure he aint gonna struggle with a 500-600HP 1.8T. The only thing that makes it hard to drive is the weight of the clutch pedal but dont think it makes it hard to drive as such.
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  15. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I can't wait to see in 2 deeps car at gti Inters, NOM, going down the strip?
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  16. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    lol. Im not intending to go down the strip in fear of breaking something! But there is still time for me to change my mind, i would like to see what i can do but can't be arsed trying to get it back to Lancashire if it breaks, what to do, what to do. Might be a good oppotunity to test out the anti lag/ launch control hmmmmmm.
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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I just meant more that it stops becoming road friendly. A 600hp turbo on a 1.8 or 2.0 motor isnt going to spool up until your pushing on for 5k rpm, will typically have reduced compression ratio to handle the power and as such be a bit limp off boost, in general becomes a bit "all or nothing".

    I'm not suggesting it will be HARD to drive, just that it wont be as nice as a 600hp motor with 50% more capacity, such as a VR6 or 2.7TT motor.

    Maybe its not as bad as i envisage.
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  18. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2011]
    BOOOO i was hoping for some HD video of it launching,LOL

    Will have to be placated with stills,lol
    #18
  19. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Well i guess in a way your right but any motor with a relatively large turbo will be a bit "all or nothing", its uncompareable to k03/04 turbos that instantly spool, but surely as turbo enthusiasts this goes without saying. And as you've said the larger the turbo the bigger the lag, its always a trade off when building small displacement high horsepower engines but I don't think it ever makes them hard to drive, maybe less fun. I personally wouldnt think anything larger than GT3076R would be much cop for the road, although im still waiting to see dyno plots of a new Borg Warner EFR turbos on a 1.8T. Spool of a GT2860 and airflow of a GT35 ive heard said, now that sounds very interesting.
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  20. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I have been in a 530 bhp s4 and its spooled to 1.6 bar probably only 1 or 2 hundred rpm later than my car reaches 1 bar on a k03. With a high power 1.8t you would be needing to work it hard to make it go but with the s4 you could drive it normally and have the power available much earlier. Just depends how much power you want and what you want to spend.
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  21. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Anti lag
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  22. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    nitrous!
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  23. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    The problem is you can't make loads of power a k03/4 turbo on the 1.8T like you can with a pair on the 2.7TT. My car spools at about 3700-3800 at 2 bar of boost, you dont have to work it hard, once its spooled its off weather your ready or not lol. And as JCB said earlier it rips through the gears so damned fast its manic. But tuning cars is always a trade off, you can't really have it all. The S4 on paper looks like the way forward and it may be, im just not convinced.

    Oh and i found another 2.0 20V motor in the states that just made 1015WHP!!!!!

    VWVortex.com - Congrats to Ed@FFE Racing for making 1000+whp!!
    #23
  24. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Nitros is a good way of getting power until the boost comes in or there's been a few supercharger and turbo setups
    #24
  25. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Nitrous is the best way to eliminate turbo lag all together apparently, it makes masses of exhaust gases to spool the turbo, cools the inlet charge massively and raises the detonation limit, win win win lol. Plus the fact it obviously gives you more power, win.
    #25
  26. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I just wish you could slap a k04 from an s3 on for a decent easy upgrade without spending too much. I think 300/350 bhp would be a nice ammount that should be reliable still.
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  27. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I'd be happy with 270 as no need to uprate the internals
    #27
  28. IN 2 Deep
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    IN 2 Deep Hoonigan

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    [May 23, 2011]
    But a decent set of rods really don't set you back much in the grand scheme of things, just a bit of work to get them in but not difficult really.
    #28
  29. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    Wasn't the cost of the parts just that it's the wife's daily driver and cant afford to take it if the road for s full engine build as most engine builders are long and just the turbo etc can be done over a weekend and if it did come apart I'd end up going silly as last time I spent 15k doing a corsa
    #29
  30. bmarshall
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    bmarshall Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    If your after k04 power look at a frankenturbo.
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  31. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    Think that will be My next one when the scroll gives up
    #31

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