more wiring questions

[fenian672000]

Another question regarding my flat battery/ hu wiring

Firstly ill quote a "warning" stated in the Becker users manual, then post pics so that some one can hopefull clarify if my head unit is actually wired up wrong

WARNING. Terminal 30 (perm positive position 4)) and Terminal 15 (switched positive position7) must always be connected seperately, otherwise increased power consumption will occur when the unit is switched off. Connection socket A is not the same for all vehicles, therefor always measure voltages before installation. The power supply must be protected by its own fuses.

Am i correct in thinking that from these pictures that they are infact connected together???

http://imageshack.us

 

[AndyMac]

Yes they are connected together, which wouldn't normally be a problem (as long as you remember to turn off the HU manually), but considering the warning, then they've obviously had issues in the past, so I would conclude this is why you're getting battery issues. ****** big coincidence if that's not the case.
Wiring in a proper ignition on feed is really simple:
Either just tap a feed from the fusebox that turns on/off with ignition
Or if you want a proper feed that stays live with the ignition off and doesn't switch off until you remove the keys then you need to tap the really thin red wire under the steering column and use that as a trigger for a relay. Use the spare permanent live off the loom in the picture above to feed the relay with a permanent 12v, the other connections to the relay need to be earth, the feed to the HU and then the thin red wire to trigger it.
I did this recently on our B6 as I was fed up with turning the HU on manually and it took me about 30 minutes, well worth while doing it properly as I do listen to the radio with the engine off sometimes.

 

[fenian672000]

Thanks Andy, at least im 99% sure now what the problem is.

I am pretty much a begginner at this wiring malarky but im confident enough if i can get my head around it, which taker some dooing sometimes.....lol......hope you dont mind if i ask you some dumb *** questions.

Regarding wiring in a proper ignition on feed......

Do i disconnect the yellow wire from position 4?

Does the new wire go into position 4?

Can you give me brief rundown on how to tap an ignition on feed from the fusebox, is this easy?

 

[AndyMac]

Disconnect all yellow wires.
The yellow wire needs to go directly from the HU to the fusebox.
To tap an ignition on feed from the fusebox:
Remove the 2 bolts holding the trim panel underneath the steering wheel and then unclip it and remove.
Unscrew the fusebox to give you access to the back. Using a testing screwdriver find a suitable feed that turns off with the ignition. Make sure you use a wire that runs off the "cold" side of the fuse, i.e. is protected by the fuse. Or use an inline fuse on the wire back to the HU.
Use a piggyback connector to connect onto the wire from the fusebox and the wire to the HU.
Feed this wire back to the HU and connect to the yellow wire (ignition on) feed to the HU.
Job done. THe HU should now retain all its presets and turn on/off with the ignition.
If you have a small 12v relay then tapping the Accessory feed is actually easier and will then keep the HU on until you pull the keys out.
All you need to do is remove the trim panel underneath the steering wheel as before, then you'll see a whole bunch of wires running from the ignition switch down the lefthand side of the steering column. There's a black plastic cover which simply unclips giving you access to the loom. There's a really thin red wire in the loom, it's the only really really thin one. Cut this wire and use a terminal block to reconnect it along with a new wire. Feed the new wire back to the HU. Replace the trim panel.
Connect the new wire to the switch trigger of the relay (pole 85), connect pole 86 to ground, use the spare permanent live on the old loom and connect this to pole 87, then connect the yellow lead from the HU to pole 30.
This will then provide a proper ignition on to the HU.

 

[fenian672000]

Disconnect all yellow wires.
The yellow wire needs to go directly from the HU to the fusebox.
To tap an ignition on feed from the fusebox:
Remove the 2 bolts holding the trim panel underneath the steering wheel and then unclip it and remove.
Unscrew the fusebox to give you access to the back. Using a testing screwdriver find a suitable feed that turns off with the ignition. Make sure you use a wire that runs off the "cold" side of the fuse, i.e. is protected by the fuse. Or use an inline fuse on the wire back to the HU.
Use a piggyback connector to connect onto the wire from the fusebox and the wire to the HU.
Feed this wire back to the HU and connect to the yellow wire (ignition on) feed to the HU.
Job done. THe HU should now retain all its presets and turn on/off with the ignition.
If you have a small 12v relay then tapping the Accessory feed is actually easier and will then keep the HU on until you pull the keys out.
All you need to do is remove the trim panel underneath the steering wheel as before, then you'll see a whole bunch of wires running from the ignition switch down the lefthand side of the steering column. There's a black plastic cover which simply unclips giving you access to the loom. There's a really thin red wire in the loom, it's the only really really thin one. Cut this wire and use a terminal block to reconnect it along with a new wire. Feed the new wire back to the HU. Replace the trim panel.
Connect the new wire to the switch trigger of the relay (pole 85), connect pole 86 to ground, use the spare permanent live on the old loom and connect this to pole 87, then connect the yellow lead from the HU to pole 30.
This will then provide a proper ignition on to the HU.

Your help is fantastic and appreciated, i should be able to follow that.

Quick question, can i get the materials from an electrical wholesale shop, things such as the 12v relay, and what type of wire do i ask for or would it be easier just taking up an offcut, or is there an online place that i could order from

cheers again
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:

 

[AndyMac]

You can certainly get everything from somewhere like Maplins, or any Car HiFi outlet. You just need a metre of 5amp single core cable. You can strip some out of 5 amp 2 or 3 core insulated mains cable. You'll need 4 female spade crimp connectors to connect to the relay. Unfortunately you can't piggyback onto the really thin wire under the steering column as it's too thin to get any contact. Terminal block is more reliable anyway. It's the only fiddly bit of the job as the wire is so thin it's difficult to strip the insulation back without cutting right through it and getting the terminal block to bite on it. Try and use the lowest gauge (smallest) terminal block you can find.

 

[fenian672000]

Andy,

When i wire up as you said, where does the h/u get power from when the ignition is off, for memory of functions etc etc

Prob the answer is staring me in the face but as far as i can see there is no permanant live when the ignition is off/keys removed, unless it is from the switched live wire (position 7)....sorry but a bit confused

 

[SimonP]

Andy,

When i wire up as you said, where does the h/u get power from when the ignition is off, for memory of functions etc etc

Prob the answer is staring me in the face but as far as i can see there is no permanant live when the ignition is off/keys removed, unless it is from the switched live wire (position 7)....sorry but a bit confused

You will end up with two 12v connections to the HU. One is the existing permanent live, that you currently have a y-split in feeding to the ignition on feed as well (ie. the unit is permanently switched on). The other is the new switched 12v ignition-on feed that you have obtained by following Andy's instructions. So basically sever the Y split, feed one from the permanent live (where it's connected currently) and the other from the new ignition on circuit, just making sure you get them the right way around otherwise you'll lose your presets etc.

Looking at your pictures what the adaptor is doing is taking the permanent 12v battery line, linking that with the normal position for the 12v switched line and then joining those together to feed the head unit's 12v switched line. The adaptor has done this because the 12v switched feed is missing on Audi's (because it's done via the CAN-bus within their own head units).

If you remove the yellow lead that's coming out of the permanent feed, which is in the same hole as the red lead on the adaptor, and then connect that lead into the new switched circuit you have created you should be on to a winner. (make sure you insulate any bare wire you've left!).

 

[fenian672000]

Ok....going by the becker manual...positioin 7 where the red wire enters the h/u is the switched positive

position 4 which is where the double yellow enters the h/u is the permanent positive

does this tie in with what your advising???

once again thanks for everyones help :icon_thumright:

 

[SimonP]

Ok....going by the becker manual...positioin 7 where the red wire enters the h/u is the switched positive

position 4 which is where the double yellow enters the h/u is the permanent positive

does this tie in with what your advising???

once again thanks for everyones help :icon_thumright:

Yep, that's at the head unit end. At the adaptor end, the yellow y-connection is fed from the permanent 12v (pin 7) and the switched 12v (pin 4) connections, then is then joined and this goes into pin 7 at the headunit end. This configuration means your headunit will always be switched on.

 

[AndyMac]

Yes Audi wire the permanent live in the switched live position (above the earth) so you need to connect the yellow perm live from the HU to where the red wire currently is (above the earth, top corner). With the remaining red wire from the HU connected to your new DIY switched live feed, bypassing the black Audi connector altogether. There may be something connected to the other side of where the single yellow currently links to the Audi loom, providing permanent 12v to it, which could also be drawing current killing the battery.
You should end up with only 2 wires connected to the original Audi loom - perm live & earth. Switched live & power antenna can bypass the original wiring.

 

[fenian672000]

Ok bit puzzled but is this how it goes

Becker No7 switched positive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>new diy switched feed

Becker No4 permanent positive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Audi loom perm live


Becker No6 illumination>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as is

Becker No8 earth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as is

Can i remove the red wire coming from the Audi perm live to the Becker switched No7?????

cheers :icon_thumright:

 

[AndyMac]

God this is like web based bomb disposal - DON'T CUT THE RED WIRE!!!!!!
Sorry, yes & yes. The whole thing is over-complicated by the fact it's wired up wrong to start with. Just remove all the yellow wires going into the Audi loom, chop the red wire from HU to Audi loom in half and connect the loom side to the yellow wire from the HU. This will give you the perm live to the HU.
Then the red wire from the HU needs to be connected to your new switched live.

 

[fenian672000]

God this is like web based bomb disposal - DON'T CUT THE RED WIRE!!!!!!
Sorry, yes & yes. The whole thing is over-complicated by the fact it's wired up wrong to start with. Just remove all the yellow wires going into the Audi loom, chop the red wire from HU to Audi loom in half and connect the loom side to the yellow wire from the HU. This will give you the perm live to the HU.
Then the red wire from the HU needs to be connected to your new switched live.

Fantastico :icon_thumright: its finally registered, and i must say yous have the patience of a saint

thanks

 

[Voodoo]

Sorry to drag this up again, but its either the whiskey last night or im just being a muppet, trying to decipher this permanent live business

I have a JVC AVX1 HU, which ive transfered into my new A3 (8L) 1999 T sport... that was a pain in the **** to start with as Audi doesnt leave much room at the back for the cables ive got.
My last car Toyota Celica 6th gen, had the wiring perfect, ive connected the ISO from my HU to the cars and hey presto, it remebered settings and turned off correctly when key removed etc. So nout wrong with the HU loom.

I now come to the new audi, and yes it all turns off nicely when the key is removed from the ignition (stays on when engine is off) which is great, but it doesnt remember settings and where I last was on mp3s etc.
Ive dug out the wiring diagram for it and the car, and the Yellow wire has a relay block on it, which should connect to permanent live 12v....

Now if ive read correctly, Audis dont have this permanet live due to the CANBUS setup or whatever, so is it a simple matter of just moving one of the wires from the Audi loom side to connect up with this nice yellow wire? is it the red/white wire that has to move on the ISO to link up? or do I join the others together, id rather not have to go cutting things up, happy with the ignition buisness, just need to get a permanet 12v that isnt going to flatten my battery if wired incorrectly. If im reading the car diagram right, from the car radio/CD loom, the red/white cable goes straight to the battery via fuse block and relay, where as the Yellow/red and black cables go via the ignition switch? is that right?

Cheers for any clarification

Also I plan to do some upgrading at some point as the speakers arent up to much due to their size, its non bose just bog standard audi setup i think, I feel my AVX is going to waste without a decent setup, was thinking on using the sub box area already in the boot, and change the speakers in front, less work and hopefully less faffing about with wires but thats for another forum later...

 

[AndyMac]

You just need to swap the perm live & ignition on live to the HU. All Audi's have perm live, but some don't have ignition on live. Yours obviously does as the HU is switching off with the keys. Audi wire these 2 feeds the wrong way round, so at the moment the perm live on the HU is switching off with the ignition which is why it appears to work OK, but doesn't retain your settings.

 

[Voodoo]

That be pin 7 and 4 then? swap red/white with yellow/red?
I have the audi wiring diagram for the radio/cd player, and think what youve referred to as perm live and ignition on live would equate to those colours and pins in the ISO... unless ive missread the diagram

cheers for the confirmation ill give it a crack tomorrow if its not raining.

****** audi have to be different and do things backwards...

 

[AndyMac]

Yes, red with white stripe on Audi loom is perm live, yellow with red stripe is ignition on.

 

[Voodoo]

Well HU is now wired up correctly, thanks again for the assitance.

Odd thing was when I was back there, noticed wires for the rear speakers going into the loom for my HU, thought they were supposed to go to the rear amp in a 8L A3? it looks like there was an additional adapter for the loom with the wires added, can only assume someone has already done the rewiring for me before I bought the car. Saves me a job anyway.