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More S3 Drama

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. jonny87
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    jonny87 Active Member

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    [Feb 10, 2010]
    yer i hear you on that mate, you gonna have £ signs spinning round your head the next few days, i been there a few times myself :(

    well i hope you work something out soon mate, il try keep my eyes peeled for engines etc for you

    have yourself a well deserved beer ;)
    #81
  2. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 10, 2010]
    Salute to that, heading for the fridge now!!
    #82
  3. jonny87
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    jonny87 Active Member

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  4. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 10, 2010]
    Oh, lookie here - just found the missing piece of bore in the sump.....

    [​IMG]
    #84
  5. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    that rod, youll need a close up pic, i cant tell whats up

    what a stupid piece of ****. maybe something was injested after the pipe blew off?
    #85
  6. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    ....Didn't see that coming....

    TBH mate... the money you spend on that would get you that much more power than you have as the turbo is the issue... My car, 1.8... 383bhp... polo, 1.8... 483bhp... if the block etc is ok (no bad scoring or owt), give it a slight hone, clean the pistons, get some IE rods in there (Bill has some I think) and get a bigger turbo... its the future... :)

    Bang for buck its a better shout...

    For a rod to go like that there must have been a lot of torque applied at some point... not been playing silly buggers with MBC's again have you? ;P

    Feasible that you could have bought the car with the onset of this damage too tbh considering the problems you have been having....

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
    #86
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    That chunk missing will only affect it if the skirt on the piston travels through the missing bit when a straight rod is fitted.

    It will need to have the sharp edges removed to stop it damaging the piston upon its first inserion etc
    #87
  8. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    It was "balls out".... albeit to 4krpm.. I did ask if it was ragged...
    Where do you think peak boost is dude??? just about on intial spool which is sub 4krpms..highest cylinder pressure and bending moments... eak!

    Likely det and boost combination caused the muchos cylinder pressure to bend the rod..
    think in terms of >2500psi cylinder pressure during combustion to put it into prespective, 7.9sqin area, x 2500 = 19901 lb force = 9046Kg of downward force..........vs the ickle Rod

    oil squirter would have been wiped out as discussed last night.. If the #3 piston at its tdc is 6mm down the bore, then it is also 6mm further down on bdc, and the squirters are not 6mm away from the bottom of the piston squirter = collision = breakage :(

    The then now bent rod will have been hitting the lower edge of the cylinder bores.. which is where I guess you say its knocked a chink of casting off..
    If you do bin the block, can I have it to use as a mock block assembly test mule for a stand.

    You seem to have a lot of luck, all of it bad :( :( :(
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
    #88
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Eh?
    injested? pipe blew off?

    lol
    #89
  10. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    the picture of the broken off bit shows some bore swept area tho
    #90
  11. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    pipe comes off, its going to breath naturally aspirated until you put that pipe back on and it was nannied home. something could have gone in there. maybe an n75 issue, it over boosted, popped the hose off and the next time round the hose stayed on but the rod bent. either way, what a ball ache
    #91
  12. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Is it possible it was hydrolock from the oil leaking from the HG?

    Bill i didn't notice from where it broke, i just know there is some redundant skirtage down there. Mega unlucky Welly
    #92
  13. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    How do you plead.....? Not guilty. :)
    #93
  14. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    #94
  15. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    hey you and I are only seeing pictures.. so guess work both sides..
    If the rods that bent its fore or aft tho in the bore
    not sure I would want to run a block with the bottom missing out of a section.. Oil squirter will have copped it and snapped off, so again I dont think you can access this with the crank in there, so its probable engine out job which opens more options on what to drop back in
    #95
  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    I did'nt think the head gasket was gone when he took it off.
    hydro lock would bend stuff as we know.. would expect to see a lot of oil sat in there tho
    #96
  17. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    #97
  18. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Just thought I'd check..... lol :sorry:
    #98
  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    OK. So I have been giving the current situation some thought overnight and these are things how I see them:

    I have 3 options on ways forward (4 if you include burning).

    Option 1) Buy a new lump. OK, it's expensive and a pain in the arse really if we're being honest, but it's a quick, relatively easy fix. The main issue with this is the cost of an engine. OK I can strip the APY I have at the moment for good bits, bolt my new head on to it, and sell the BAM/APY head to recover some cost, but it's still a wack of dosh.

    Option 2) Look into whether the engine will run in it's current state. Chunk out of the bore looks bad, but I have my suspicions that it will still seal.
    Bill has echoed my thoughts exactly here. Do I really want to run an engine with which I will never ever really be happy. It's obviously spiking some torque, and I feel it's a big risk, and for the expense I may well end up sitting back here moaning about my broken car! lol.

    Option 3) New block. Strip APY. Forged rods. Clean pistons up. Rebuild bottom end completely into new block. Reinstall, bolt new head on... and we're back in business.... The main question with this is whether I can use any 1.8T block for the rebuild, or if it has to be S3 specific. If any block is useable, then it could make it whole lot easier. Buy a written off engine (cammy snappage...) chuck/sell whats not needed, job done.

    Option 4) Burn.

    What are people's thoughts? I'm leaning for option 3. All options involve cost and ballache to be honest...
    #99
  20. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    new lump in. simplest option then sell the damn car. it was a cheap car when you got it but by now surely youve paid over the odds?

    forge the lump, add more power and next itll break something in the drive line blah blah blah

    like chasing your tail whilst peeing into the wind
  21. wibble111
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    wibble111 needs to scratch the itch

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    If it was me i'd probably stay away from option 4 as it'd be a c**t to get away with IMO, would the car be 'stolen' if so how do you get by the immo? if 'stolen' with keys does that mean also a 'burglary' either way its risky.
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Option 3 but I think there is a difference in the block the APY uses and the newer blocks... My AMK is an 06A block but yours may have the earlier block (058 IIRC... has only one knock sensor)

    Any block of the same designation would be fine AFAIK (VW, SEAT or Audi)

    Good luck with it all mate and give me a shout if you need a hand...

    <tuffty/>
  23. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Personally if I was you I would have not mentioned burning on a public forum and faked a theft and burn out, re-coup the insurance money and start again.
  24. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    I only mentioned it in jest.... lol

    Anyway, as much as it pains me to say... I love it too much to burn it. I don't know how or why, buts it's got a special little place in my heart....:wub:
  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    OK.... Option 3 it is.

    APY and BAM blocks seem a bit hard to come by, so I will see what I can source. Typically there is an inline 1.8t block down my local scrapper.... which is no bloody good to me!! Grrrrrr.
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Inline blocks are the same I think.... just need to work out if yours is an 058 or 06A

    <tuffty/>
  27. JS1500
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    JS1500 Howdy

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    I vote 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo transplant!
    Possibly expensive overkill though, possibly.

    :icon_thumright:
  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Two questions.... Firstly, where do I find that. I assume that it's stamped somewhere?

    And I woul of though the mount on the inline would of been different?
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    IIRC, the block number should be cast into it just above the oil filter housing... pretty sure inline/transverse share the same block... there are enough threaded points cast into the block to allow various engine mount combos as far as I know...

    <tuffty/>
  30. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Ok... someone may have to clarify the block situation as I now officially confused myself :)

    Found these pics...
    06A block
    [​IMG]

    058 block
    [​IMG]

    058 may be the inline one and 06A the transverse...

    Where's Mark (ByzanA4) when you need him.... lol

    <tuffty/>
  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    OK, so looking like finding a block may be harder than I thought.... lol.

    Tuffty, I may just fit a BAM block to it, any idea about compatibilty, or is it the same story?
  32. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
  33. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Well, from those photos, my sump matches the layout of the 06A. It's deffo not a fatty sump like the 058's....
  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    The easiest differenc to spot is internal or external waterpump internal 06a ext 058.

    In therory there is no reason not to use an 058 forged cranks and 20mm pins etc i would stick with an 06A IMHO.

    Whether BAM, ARX,ARY etc the basic block is the same, AFAIK
  35. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Are you sure they have the same compression ratios as they may have slightly different volumes.

    I would bin that block. You may have a very fine crack in the cylinder wall and when the heat and pressures rises within the cylinder it may crack.

    I would get a new block, same as what is in there, rebuild with uprated parts and get a big turbo, you know what your doing and its much easier with the engine already out.

    Or if money is there 3.2 turbo, I won love to do it
  36. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]

    AFAIK all 06A blocks are the same...

    <tuffty/>
  37. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    The APY lists an internal water pump, so I guess it's all good!

    Have found this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A4-VW-PA...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2558cc2a07...

    May ask him for more info, as I don't know enough about the blocks to tell them apart. She's an old girl though on a 97... I suspect I may be sh*t out of luck!
  38. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    Welly I would get the same you have got. I dont think they will be the same. I maybe wrong but it the compression ratios will be different so have different size volumes.
  39. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    That will be the old 058 block mate... 06A is 2000+

    <tuffty/>
  40. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 11, 2010]
    That was from that VWVortex link - Surely the pictures above immediately contradict this!

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