Manual Vs S-tronic Cruise Control

[mjcourtney]

So I picked up my new 1.4COD s-tronic last Friday, after trading in my 1.4 122 manual.

Still getting to grips with some of the quirks of the s-tronic, but generally really pleased with it, especially in manual mode.

However.... There seems to be a big difference in the way standard (not adaptive) cruise control works on descents between the two gearboxes. On the manual, if you went down hill and set the cruise control it would use the brakes to maintain speed - this was brilliant and meant you could quite reliably use it to manage speed through safety cameras etc.

On the s-tronic it appears that no brakes are used, instead it attempts to use engine braking by changing down gears as you go down hill. This seems so far to be much worse at maintaining speed! For example, I set it at 40mph on a hill with a 30 limit at the bottom. I wasn't even half way down the hill and the car had downshifted twice yet still hit 50! This meant a significant hard brake at the end to get to down to 30 in time.

I tried flicking the lever into manual mode, yet this time there was no engine braking either (as it wouldn't downshift without instruction from me) so the problem was even worse.

All in all I much prefer the cruise control in the manual system as it's far more reliable and predictable.

Has anyone else noticed this and do you think it'd be possible to enable the braking feature through VCDS?

 

[glospete]

Can't comment re standard cruise control but ACC is brilliant at maintaining the set speed down a hill. I believe it uses the brakes and even on a steep hill it holds back the speed.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the 1.4COD with S-Tronic. What a great combination isn't it?

 

[h5djr]

I agree. The ACC on my 184 quattro works very well with the s-tronic, especially with the s-tronic set to D. I use the ACC mostly to maintain the speed through average speed camera zones and with the s-tronic set to D it keeps the set speed very well. This and traffic queues are about the only times I use my s-tronic in D mode.

 

[RedTurtle]

I agree. The ACC on my 184 quattro works very well with the s-tronic, especially with the s-tronic set to D. I use the ACC mostly to maintain the speed through average speed camera zones and with the s-tronic set to D it keeps the set speed very well. This and traffic queues are about the only times I use my s-tronic in D mode.

+1 ACC works really well on my STronic S3, I use it for average speed cameras and the stupid 20 MPH zones in Bristol where they stick the camera on the hill so they catch you going down...

 

[MA3RC]

I know what you mean with the cruise control, I have a manual gearbox and use the cruise for the speed cameras a lot. It's nice knowing you can set it to 29mph and it may occasionally creep to 30mph on a steep hill but it regulates its speed very well. It sounds a real shame if this isn't the case on Stronic gearboxes.

 

[mjcourtney]

Yeah, it either isn't the case on the s-tronic, or I have a fault somewhere (unlikely I suppose). Would be interested to hear from anyone who has S-tronic and standard cruise control to see if it's the same.

Had I known this was the case I'd have added ACC, but as I was more than happy with the standard CC in the previous car I just assumed it would be the same. Doh!

 

[sunscreemer]

I'm very surprised at this, I thought standard cruise control was "cruise control with brake function" as it is on my BMW, but looking again at the A3 brochure it suggests otherwise given this line "provided that the engine power output and engine braking effect permit it". I ordered the S tronic with ACC as part of the Driver assist package based on input from this forum with people saying the ACC works really well with the S tronic so i'm now relieved I did. Maybe it's Audi's way of trying to further sell the ACC over the standard cruise. Like many others i only really use cruise to limit my speed in restricted areas rather than for motorway cruising so the brake effect is important to me to avoid creeping over average speed limits etc.

 

[JohnM100]

I have S-tronic and standard cruise control. Mine does apply the brakes if needed going downhill (tested at night so I could see the lights come on as well as feel the braking).

Mine is a 1.8 though but still with the 7speed box. MY14.

John.

 

[Ignition1]

Yeah, it either isn't the case on the s-tronic, or I have a fault somewhere (unlikely I suppose). Would be interested to hear from anyone who has S-tronic and standard cruise control to see if it's the same.

Had I known this was the case I'd have added ACC, but as I was more than happy with the standard CC in the previous car I just assumed it would be the same. Doh!

I'm getting my car tomorrow which has almost exactly that spec - A3 1.4 COD S-Tronic + Cruise Control (not adaptive) - so I'll give that a few tests and let you know. Bit disappointing to hear your experience.

I use a 2006 (that's 9 years old) A6 2.7 TDI with standard cruise control and that controls speed with the brake when going downhill. So not sure why a modern 2015 A3 wouldn't have that.

 

[mjcourtney]

I have S-tronic and standard cruise control. Mine does apply the brakes if needed going downhill (tested at night so I could see the lights come on as well as feel the braking).

Mine is a 1.8 though but still with the 7speed box. MY14.

John.

Very interesting to hear. So either its not the same on the 1.4, or mine has a fault.

 

[mjcourtney]

I'm getting my car tomorrow which has almost exactly that spec - A3 1.4 COD S-Tronic + Cruise Control (not adaptive) - so I'll give that a few tests and let you know. Bit disappointing to hear your experience.

I use a 2006 (that's 9 years old) A6 2.7 TDI with standard cruise control and that controls speed with the brake when going downhill. So not sure why a modern 2015 A3 wouldn't have that.

Great! Let me know how you get on

 

[TTP2120]

Yeah, it either isn't the case on the s-tronic, or I have a fault somewhere (unlikely I suppose). Would be interested to hear from anyone who has S-tronic and standard cruise control to see if it's the same.

Had I known this was the case I'd have added ACC, but as I was more than happy with the standard CC in the previous car I just assumed it would be the same. Doh!

I have the standard Cruise Control and don't have the problem you are describing. Always maintains the speed there or there about,s. Wouldn't say it would jump in the speed difference you are describing

 

[mjcourtney]

I have the standard Cruise Control and don't have the problem you are describing. Always maintains the speed there or there about,s. Wouldn't say it would jump in the speed difference you are describing

Thanks, I will give it another go today and see what happens. Does yours use the brakes at all?

 

[mjcourtney]

After experimenting some more it definitely isn't applying the brakes, additionally, its so slow to downshift on hills that I hit 45mph with it set to 30 before it changed gear.

Having spoken to the dealer they've said they don't think auto-brake comes with the standard CC on S-tronic, but they're checking with Audi tomorrow to make sure.

If so, that's totally rubbish. Main reason I ordered CC was to maintain speed, you pay more for the s-tronic and get one less feature....

Still interested to hear if anyone else with a 1.4 s-tronic can replicate this.

 

[Ignition1]

I'll be trying soon. Just picked mine up today, will give it a try when I find a steep enough hill.

 

[amped2]

Mine brakes with cruise on and s-tronic. Again it's the 1.8, perhaps it's something to do with the COD

 

[elpaulio]

I tried this today in my S3, set cruise to 35 and it dropped one gear and went from 40 to 45 with no obvious signs of braking...

 

[JonathanY70]

I use a 2006 (that's 9 years old) A6 2.7 TDI with standard cruise control and that controls speed with the brake when going downhill. So not sure why a modern 2015 A3 wouldn't have that.

My 2006 A4 with cc doesn't brake down hill. Neither does our 2010 VW Tiguan with cc

 

[h5djr]

The wording in the Price and Specification Guide say for the 8T2 Cruise Control option is "Maintains and speed above 18 mph, providing that the engine power output and engine braking effect permit it" There is no mention of the system using the car's braking system.

With the PCG Adaptive cruise control the same document does mention that the car's braking system will be used to maintain speed and distance.

 

[mjcourtney]

Yeah, just odd that the manual system does use the brakes (and it appears the 1.8 s-tronic does too).

 

[Rob2k68]

Tried mine this morning - it changed down a gear but never applied the brake. Would be a bit disappointed with this if I used it more but then would prob have gone the route of ACC anyway.

For me it was pretty much a freebie with the comfort pack.

Just goes to show though that when speccing your car it's best to read the small print under all these option codes as said above.

 

[h5djr]

Tried mine this morning - it changed down a gear but never applied the brake. Would be a bit disappointed with this if I used it more but then would prob have gone the route of ACC anyway.

For me it was pretty much a freebie with the comfort pack.

Just goes to show though that when speccing your car it's best to read the small print under all these option codes as said above.

I agree. The trouble is these days is that with all the 'assistance' option available drivers seem to be forgetting how to actually drive themselves and expect the car to do so much for them. I'm slightly guilty of that myself because I have ACC and use it in traffic queues and short speed restricted zones but other than that I prefer to doing the driving myself.

 

[HawkeyeS3]

I have S-tronic and standard cruise control. Mine does apply the brakes if needed going downhill (tested at night so I could see the lights come on as well as feel the braking).

Mine is a 1.8 though but still with the 7speed box. MY14.

John.

Mine (S3 S-Tronic) does exactly the same, not sure if it applies the brakes, but going downhill with cruise on will maintain the speed, either by changing gear or braking or both. The other thing I use cruise for is when approaching speed limits with average speed cameras. If I set my cruise to (say) 50 before turning it on (flick the cruise lever up/down before pulling forward to engage), and then when approaching the 50 limit doing (say) 70 and apply cruise, it rapidly decreases the speed. In fact if you go too mad (say 70 to a 30 limit), the car almost stands on its nose it de-accelerates so quickly.

So yes S3 with S-Tronic and with cruise it will maintain the speed on the level, up and down hills no worries.

If you think yours really isn't working mjcourtney, then set cruise at (say) 40, find a clear quiet bit of road, get your car up to 60 and then engage cruise. If it noticeably slows then yours is working, if it doesn't then there is an issue. If you set your MMI to show your electronic speed as well, you'll see how quick it de-accelerates.

EDIT: Just remembered I recently had a 1.8 Manual A3 whilst mine was in for some engine work, and the cruise worked exactly the same on that manual (although it didn't change gears itself LOL, but it did brake and slow down to the speed set by cruise going downhill)

 

[JohnM100]

The other thing I use cruise for is when approaching speed limits with average speed cameras. If I set my cruise to (say) 50 before turning it on (flick the cruise lever up/down before pulling forward to engage), and then when approaching the 50 limit doing (say) 70 and apply cruise, it rapidly decreases the speed. In fact if you go too mad (say 70 to a 30 limit), the car almost stands on its nose it de-accelerates so quickly.)

Yep, mine does that too.


I was testing a few things on my way home last night to contribute to this thread and curiously the only time it speeded up to exceed the set cruise speed by more than 1-2mph was when going *uphill* at low revs and the S-Tronic changed down a gear; I think that caught the cruise control electronics off guard as the engine would need less throttle in a lower gear. It soon settled down again though. Similar to this:

I tried this today in my S3, set cruise to 35 and it dropped one gear and went from 40 to 45

 

[Ignition1]

I just tested on a particularly steep hill in Barnet (no traffic around me fortunately...unique for that road!). I set it to 30...went to 35...40, then it changed up and was at 5,000rpm but STILL remained at 45mph. So not only is Cruise Control forgetting that cars have brakes, it's also burning more fuel to slow me down...intelligent system there VAG.

 

[mjcourtney]

I just tested on a particularly steep hill in Barnet (no traffic around me fortunately...unique for that road!). I set it to 30...went to 35...40, then it changed up and was at 5,000rpm but STILL remained at 45mph. So not only is Cruise Control forgetting that cars have brakes, it's also burning more fuel to slow me down...intelligent system there VAG.

Yep, that's exactly my experience too. And to answer a previous question, setting the cruise control to a lower speed than I'm currently travelling (eg 40 when I'm doing 60) has no affect at all. It'll just very very gently ease off the throttle until it gets down to 40, no engine or mechanical braking.

The brochure could be a lot clearer on this IMO.

 

[JohnM100]

I just tested on a particularly steep hill in Barnet (no traffic around me fortunately...unique for that road!). I set it to 30...went to 35...40, then it changed up and was at 5,000rpm but STILL remained at 45mph. So not only is Cruise Control forgetting that cars have brakes, it's also burning more fuel to slow me down...intelligent system there VAG.

Certainly sounds like yours is relying on engine braking only.

However it won't be using fuel; the injectors switch off when engine braking or no accelerator pressure (unless engine idling).

 

[Ignition1]

Certainly sounds like yours is relying on engine braking only.

However it won't be using fuel; the injectors switch off when no accelerator pressure or engine braking.

Oh yeah...

Damn, was hoping to be more dramatic.

But yes it felt like engine braking only.

 

[Rob2k68]

Yeah bit diappointing after all it's called 'Cruise Control' not 'Minimum Speed Control' ! Would much rather have braking than downshifts.

Good question about a VCDS setting ??

 

[JohnM100]

Good question about a VCDS setting ??

Random thought:

Could those with normal cruise control AND "cruise braking" be those who also have the optional extra Hold Assist? If not, what is the common theme?

Eg for me:
1.8, S-Tronic, MY14, normal cruise control, Hold Assist (yes). "cruise braking" - Yes.

Please post your equivalent specs and whether you have "cruise braking"

John.

 

[Rob2k68]

^^ good idea.

Mines :-

2.0 S3 6spd S Tronic.
NO ACC. NO Cruise Braking.
I have Hold Assist.

I think this may well end up being linked to gearbox type or specific to ACC ?

 

[mjcourtney]

My previous
8V was 1.4 manual 122, MY13, normal cruise, no hold assist, with 'cruise braking'

 

[Ignition1]

So to be clear -

Cruise Braking = the car applying the brakes to slow down with CC applied (rather than using engine braking).

In that case -

1.4 COD, S-Tronic, 2015, normal cruise control, Hold Assist (no), cruise braking (no).

So Adaptive Cruise Control will apply the brakes? I suspect normal CC only has access to the throttle and gearbox, while ACC must have access to brakes as well.

 

[cuke2u]

It is cruise control, not ***, no cars I have ever owned put on the brakes when cruise is on. It is as it's worded, cruise control not one that maintains a fixed speed control at all times, if that was the case then it would be *** on the cheap. As far as I have always understood it cruise control has always been for maintaining a set speed on a motorway, on the flat.

 

[mjcourtney]

It is cruise control, not ***, no cars I have ever owned put on the brakes when cruise is on. It is as it's worded, cruise control not one that maintains a fixed speed control at all times, if that was the case then it would be *** on the cheap. As far as I have always understood it cruise control has always been for maintaining a set speed on a motorway, on the flat.

Yes, but the Manual cars DO have braked cruise control. Hence the thread pointing out that some s-tronics evidently don't

 

[h5djr]

Yes, but the Manual cars DO have braked cruise control. Hence the thread pointing out that some s-tronics evidently don't

With a manual gearbox you can select a low gear and this will stop the car going more a given speed. With an s-tronic, even in manual mode the s-tronic will override the settings and change up if the speed gets too high for any given gear. Perhaps manual use of the brakes is the answer rather than relying on the car to do it for you. You are the driver after all and it is you responsibility to ensure the car is travelling at the correct speed. Cruise control is only an aid that helps in some situations.

 

[Simon L]

With a manual gearbox you can select a low gear and this will stop the car going more a given speed. With an s-tronic, even in manual mode the s-tronic will override the settings and change up if the speed gets too high for any given gear. Perhaps manual use of the brakes is the answer rather than relying on the car to do it for you. You are the driver after all and it is you responsibility to ensure the car is travelling at the correct speed. Cruise control is only an aid that helps in some situations.

Yeah, completely agree Dave.

I use CC very sparingly and mainly on flatish roads. The trouble is it puts you too much at ease and it's always in the back of my mind that I might react that split second later in the event of something unforseen.

It's fine on empy roads but whenever there's a lot of traffic I find my foot hovering near the brake just in case, which kinda defeats the object a bit!

 

[JohnM100]

We seem to be going a bit off topic here; this isn't about cruise control pros/cons/risks as that discussion has been done to death already and could equally be directed at ACC users. This is trying to determine why some people have 'cruise braking' and some don't.

 

[h5djr]

May be, but according to the Audi documentation the normal Cruise Control only uses engine braking. If it is being used with a manual gearbox you can get more engine braking by staying in a low gear. With an s-tronic gearbox, as I said in my earlier post, it will change up automatically and therefore give less engine braking. Personally I don't think that the will be a difference between different models fitted with the same basic cruise control other than between manual gearbox and s-tronic gearbox or the fact that one type of engine may give more braking effect than another.

The difference with ACC is that it does most definitely use the braking system to slow the car or actually stop it if necessary no matter which gearbox is fitted. If fact the ACC does seem to work better with the s-tronic that the manual because when it does stop the car in a traffic queue it always selects first gear ready to move away and changes up as necessary depending on the speed of the traffic with the driver having to do anything.

 

[mjcourtney]

But there IS a difference. My last car (manual 8V 1.4) braked, the new one (s-tronic 8V 1.4) does not brake.

I will adjust my driving style accordingly to suit, but this thread was to highlight that there are differences with cruise control between Manual and S-tronic transmissions.

The brochure omits the fact that the manual transmission uses mechanical braking to maintain speed.