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Low on power :( please look at my graphs (tesco momentum comparison here)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by James333, May 2, 2012.

  1. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Hey, so I decided to log my g/s on my 2001 Custom Code stage 1 remapped S3......

    I was quite disappointed with the results, using the g/s divided by 0.8 I managed a peak of 236bhp at 5920rpm - A sad day!

    Here's the log that I have put into excel, please ignore the initial spike, I guess I touched the throttle a bit early, backed off then started the run.

    [​IMG]

    Please note my timing, I have no idea what it should look like so does it seem normal?

    I then put £30 of Tesco Momentum in (my tank was low so the 95ron wouldn't dilute too much) and also half a bottle of octane booster that I had lying around (maybe worth nothing though as it is probably a few years old...)

    I then did another run and the log is as follows...

    [​IMG]

    239bhp at 6520rpm! an epic 3bhp so one question is, is momentum a waste of money if you are after power? or does the ecu take a while to re adjust to the new fuel? It did feel better low down and as you can see from the peak rpm, it has moved it 600rpm higher.


    My main concern now though is why am I 30bhp down on custom codes "265bhp" I'll go and log requested boost vs actual boost and see whats on there as I sometimes get a boost leak fault code that comes up as intermittent. This code isn't always there though, even after a hard-ish drive.

    Any input would be great i'm quite new to vag com so any pointers for what to check would be really helpful, if I manage to get even 25bhp back that would be great, as soon as it's running as it should i'm getting a B5 Tip but don't want to fit anything else until I find the cause of this problem.

    Thanks for reading :)
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  3. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    I think I will need to hold the revs at something like 2500rpm for a few seconds each time and start the logging at the same 2500rpm so I can sync the graphs and also lay one over the other but that will have to wait until I next fuel up.
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  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Lower octane promotes knock which in turn activates knock control and you get timing pull... far too many factors to influence the outcome on an individual basis but the effect of lower octane fuel is very noticeable on any car I have seen running it on the dyno...

    Don't get hung up on your actual power vs quoted power either as Custom Code et al will always quote the higher achievable figure based on whatever dyno on whatever day on whatever mileage car but in reality stage 1 power is anywhere between 240 and 260ish hp depending on age/mileage/condition of engine/octane of fuel/etc... yada yada...

    Also take into account ECU adaption (including timing) and if switching from lower octane to higher octane you will see an improvement over a shortish space of time...

    There could be other reasons for your lower power figures... heat from doing a few runs (std components heat sink very quickly and power will drop off quickly)...

    Stage 1 cars with no mods other than a remap usually get one good run then power drops off... stage 2 mods make it more consistent...

    <tuffty/>
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  5. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    I knew I could count on you for the first reply tufty:hi:

    And a helpful one too! With regard to your suggestions, I wasn't too fussed about the octane comparison, I thought i'd add it in as I was doing 2 runs anyway. I wanted to space them out because of the heat soak issue of my standard ICs so there was 10 minutes between the runs with no hard running in between, a quick fuel up and off boost pottering down a quiet dual carriageway to cool things off, it was also a wet coolish night which i'd have thought would help my figures, it's going to be pathetic in the summer!

    Has anyone ever put a healthy CC stage 1 S3 on bills dyno? It seems that nowadays B5 figures are a good benchmark to go by :)
    What I mean is that if someone has had a true 260bhp with no other mods, i'm keen to find out why mine can't make the same and to fix whatever is holding it back :)

    I'm one of the people that bought an S3 4 years ago so to me it's still an £8k car so I want to have a 'good' car. I may not worry so much if i'd paid £3.5k or whatever they are worth now :)

    Thanks for the help.
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  6. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Exactly what tuffty said.

    I always take generic maps and their figures with a pinch of salt. No disrespect to the tuners, its just that there are so many variables when testing a car they can change so quickly.
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  7. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    [May 2, 2012]
    My last S3 a pre-facelift APY had CC stage 1 on it with a green panel filter and a 007p DV no other mods and it made 241BHP on Regal Autosports 4wd rollers so i wouldnt say your figures are too bad really.

    and that was using Shell Vpower
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  8. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]

    But a 30bhp pinch of salt!? I thought the generally accepted power figures for these generic maps was at least 260bhp? Thats why i'm keen to hear from other stage 1 owners. So with your comment in mind, maybe a g/s figure would give a better comparison in this case, to totally cut out the 'dyno lottery' Even if I say 250bhp from a generic map would suffice, I still need to find where i'm loosing the 15bhp I paid for :sos:

    I think i'll email custom code and see what g/s I should expect i'm guessing they may not want to tell me though as it may undermine their power claims if I used the /0.8 calculation.
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  9. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Ah, i see, I don't suppose you have an airflow log from that car? Thanks :)
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  10. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Oh and just to say when i first had the car RR`d it only made 230BHP so took a day off to goto CC HQ as it was a 3hour drive and they put the "latest" version of the map on my car and some new plugs which then gave me the 241BHP i got the next time i got it on the RR.

    If you want the most BHP on stg1 i guess you need to go see Bill or the R-tech crew for them to be able to squeeze as much as they can for you with a bit of tinkering
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  11. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    [May 2, 2012]
    This is the print out from the first RR`d where i got 232BHP

    [​IMG]

    This is the one after i got the new software and plugs

    [​IMG]
    #10
  12. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    Ah man, maybe a mod should re name this thread 'Custom Code are d¦cks'
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  13. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    [May 2, 2012]
    i have Revo stg1 on my current S3 now, but not had it RR`d as yet so no idea what BHP its putting out but i would guess about 250bhpish.
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  14. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    I just read your Sig, i'm very jealous, I want your arm rest and RNS-E haha.

    Back to my OP though, it would be really good if someone could post g/s logs of a custom coded S3 :) Thanks all
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  15. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 2, 2012]
    did you have a before DYNO
    did you have an after DYNO

    you see where I'm going with this? ;)

    logs before
    logs after

    Without this info, who's to say the 15bhp you crave had'nt escaped before hand??

    Its a CC stage 1 I guess
    ... where a car does'nt perform, but does on 100's of identical cars, its the car which is the cause of the issue, and not the map.

    If it were a pikey map, then all best are off, but CC code aint bad.



    etc etc
    #14
  16. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]
    This is what i'm trying to get to the bottom of, I know it's my car and not the map but i'm after suggestions to find why it's potentially down on power, I think my earlier annoyance stemmed from other posts saying expect 240bhp from stage one where I was clearly led to believe I was paying for 265bhp from CC. I chose CC after obsessive research and came to the conclusion they were the best to go for, for my needs :) I get that some companies seem to be able to ignore physics with their power claims and pub talk figures don't get you from 0 - 60 any faster.

    I hope it didn't seem like I was blaming my power deficit on anything other than the issues in within my own car :)

    So what is the best course of action? If I knew what a stage 1 CC S3 flows at least i'd have a goal figure in mind. My MPG is also terrible and I wonder if that is related too? It has dropped significantly since I had the car and ironically my driving style has become more tame which doesn't ad up! Ultrasonic cleaning of injectors is on the cards. Before that though, is it correct that if I push the diaphragm of the DV up and place my finger over the vacuum hole, it should stay closed until I release my finger? And if not, I have a duff DV? it's a genuine one with only a year or so's use. If the boost pipes appear to be on, tight up against the bead, can they still be leaking boost?

    Cheers
    #15
  17. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [May 2, 2012]
    My car got 251.5bhp on bills dyno on CC stage 1!
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  18. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 2, 2012]
    I guess you did'nt have a before/after dyno done.......... which is a shame as it may have helped identify

    most common issues, being tired maf sensor, which could be under reading.. but if thats what you are using to judge power loss or gain, its a flawed check. Dyno... well worth getting done, with logging..
    Smoke test the setup to identify leaks.. if present. (and very often are)

    I have seen cars come thru here with remaps on and make 230bhp before... and then found leaks, fixed them and they grew 20bhp more... so this could be the case for you.

    Where in the country are you located?

    for others reading this.......... Choose a mapper who does before and after dyno's with logging, so everything is apparent as to whats occuring Before and After the remap.... Everything else is poke and hope imho
    #17
  19. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 2, 2012]
    It's a special car mate! ;)
    #18
  20. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 2, 2012]

    Yeah, sorry, I was meant to multi quote! I didn't have any dyno time before or after unfortunately.

    I'm in Exeter so i'm quite keen to come up your way bill if you have time, sounds like you're pretty busy at the moment though, i'll PM you to discuss matters :) I guess it makes no difference to my situation if I get a B5 TIP or not other than still getting gains but maybe not to it's full potential? On the other hand though, if I wait to fit the TIP and do it around the same time as sorting out any other issues i'll have a lot more to grin about!

    So by going by Gops posted, I'll aim for around 200g/s by just visual inspection of boost pipes etc, and have a look on here at how to test the MAF, N75, DV etc, unless anyone has some quick pointers?
    #19
  21. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 3, 2012]
    Hey, so here's the requested boost vs actual, is this normal? I seem to be getting 250-300mb less boost than requested? Can anyone let me know if this is right? Thanks :)
    [​IMG]
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  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 3, 2012]
    Tired turbo or airleak potentially...

    <tuffty/>
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  23. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 3, 2012]
    why Another Post of same thing??????????????????????
    #22
  24. James333
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    James333 Member

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    [May 3, 2012]
    Hey, sorry, i'm confused? this is the first time I have logged requested vs actual boost? Or do you mean because I started a new thread? I wanted to start a new thread to have a title specific to my specific query, and to recognise the opinions of people that may not have been following this thread, is that what you mean? Thanks
    #23

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