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Loud Tapping noise Help Please

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by campbell, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    There is a loud tapping/flapping engine noise on tick over and gets a lot worse when accelerating even very gently, anybody have any idea?
    I first thought that there is something caught against the cambellt and just flapping on the wheel but seams to be coming from the engine block.

    Any ideas and comments much appreciated

    Thankyou

    Campbell
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  2. MIKE GTR
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    MIKE GTR Member

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    Sounds bad - could be a spun shell/bearing, could be the oil pump gone - have you got pil pressure? infact have you got oil?

    I'd get the AA out and get it taken to a garage but i wouldn't run it anymore if i were you, these things don't get better by revving!
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  3. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    i have got oil pressure and there is oil, i did an oil change last week with filter. i have always used shell oil but changed to mobil 1 Vw spec. I noticed the old filter was a pain to get to get off, really tight. But there was no damge. It sounds terrible, tappets or cam tensioner? nothing is obvious under the bonnet. No issues withperformance, or excess smoke, no warning lights at all

    Cheers
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  4. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Sounds like cam chain territory.
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  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    If its a rattle rather than a ringing sound it sounds like the cam chain tensioner which is located gearbox side at the top of the engine, a more metallic ringing sound towards the cam belt side of the engine may suggest the belt tensioner damper has given up the ghost...

    A cambelt change at Audi doesn't mean this component is changed.... you normally have to specifically ask for the damper to be changed else they will only change the tensioner pully and the roller on the damper... not the damper itself...

    <tuffty/>
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  6. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    I used a local mechanice to change the cambelt, tensioners, and waterpump about 20K miles ago, all genuine audi parts. The sound can only be described as plastic can stuck in a bycycle wheel and its get a lot louder when accelerating. So if were into cambelt tensioner and or damper territory how much are we talking from a specilaist and how much labour?

    I dont fancy taking this job on whatever it is lol

    Thanks for comments and thoughts Guys
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  7. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    I had the same noise only happenned when accelerating and from the front. I did a lot of digging and found the info on cam chain, heatshield and charcoal canister. However I just lived with it. However all of a sudden it has gone since I had the clutch and flywheel changed. It appears that the rotating metallic catching on something sound was my flywheel coming to bits an catching.
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  8. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    just back from visiting an audi specialist, he said a hydraulic lifter is the likely culprit. But couldnt say for sure so gave me a break down of prices:

    complete head removal £ 700 plus VAT (worse case scnerio)
    Both camshafts remoaval £ 240 plus VAT (what he thinks it is)
    Timing belt removal £190 plus VAT (what he thinks it is)
    Rocker cover removal and inspection £65 plus Vat


    So im looking at £505 inc vat plus parts costs if it a liftter, does that reasonable? he says if its a lifter, just replace the one and not all 20.

    any thoughts? cheers
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
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  9. ianysm
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    ianysm Active Member

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    Doesn't sound too unreasonable given its not a job you can do yourself, but it needs doing.
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  10. jonny87
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    jonny87 Active Member

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    how pissed off would be if you paid to have it all done, replaced one lifter, then 1000 miles down the road another one went?

    if it was me i would insist on all of them being replaced whilst its in pieces, gonna cost more in the short term but potentially save you mega bucks in the future
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  11. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    good call, if its the tappets where is the best place to buy them from?cheers
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  12. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    that is plausible. reason being, the old one would have packed up due to being gummed up with oil so couldnt expand fully.

    ideall you want to perform some sort of clean up in there. an atf clean would be good
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  13. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    so because i have changed the oil this has caused this because the tappet can now expand fully? An atf clean wouldnt solve the problem?
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  14. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    i wouldnt be suprised. it is a very effective cleaner. on the old golfs, they suffer from the build up of varnish in there (not as extreme as gludge you get in 20vts) and it brings old hydraulic lifters back to life. my 16v golf is on almost 220k miles and is flawless.

    the tappet should just pump back up naturally but because it was blocked it wouldnt fill and hence the noise
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  15. S3LOV
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    S3LOV New Member

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    Do s3s have a cam chain, and not a cam belt?
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  16. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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  17. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Mr C!

    1) Good to see you're around again
    2) Sorry to hear you're having problems...

    I don't know if the chappy doing your engine is going to give it a good flush, but for christ's sake get it done. Different kettle of fish to some extent, but it's still a 20VT... Byzan A4 and I spent a large part of Wednesday clearing a sludge issue on my B5 1.8 TQS before it had chance to do any serious damage (see thread: CLICK HERE - it's not detailed in the thread, but I've also flushed her out with STP Engine Flush)

    ALSO... Not two weeks ago I was told by a chap who has a boat load of experience with 20VTs to never ever put Mobil 1 in them - he's seen horrible things and is confident enough to blame that oil - it sounds weird I know, but I know the guy well (as do a few others on here), so that and the cabinet of awards he has for tuning (particularly the 20VT) make me trust what he says...

    Hope you get it sorted, all the best...

    Rob.
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  18. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    good to hear from you bud too, hope things are good with you?

    i have always stuck to the shell helix ultra, the mobil 1 was on offer at £40 so i decided to get that. Its is VW spec 504 so i was happy using it. Seams quite a coincidence that i changed the oil last week then this happens.
    So if i flushed the engine out that could possibly cure the problem? Im about to see a guy from preston audi to see what he thinks, as i know him and he said he would easy beat the quote from the specialist. the noise seams to be coming from the drivers side in the engine. But when u actually life the bonnet the noise is central from the block
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  19. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    engine flushed, new oil and filter. No change to the noise. Has anyone had any tappets done on the S3? what should i be paying for this job? Cheers
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  20. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    i used STP engine flush too, dropped the new mobil 1 oil out, £40 down the drain! Put some castrol edge 5w-30 in there, any ideas guys if its the tappets?
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  21. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I think it'd have been a long-shot for the change of oil to fix the problem fella, but giving her a flush was definitely a good idea - I was thinking when she went in for work (it sounded like you'd made your decision where/when she's going); but if you've got to limp her to wherever she goes, all the same. Also if my mate's right about Mobil 1 (and he's rarely wrong about anything), it was probably all the better an idea.

    As regards what is actually making the noise, how confident was place #1 that it's a lifter? Also have you had any word from Preston Audi man yet?

    All the best,

    Rob.
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  22. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    the specialist was fairly confident it was a lifter, but he could not say for definite. Dont know if you have heard of him called frank massey? His company is on marsh lane, preston called ads diagnostics.
    The audi bloke said it wasnt the sound he was expecting and to give it a flush, new oil and filter etc to see if that cures it then contact him. Start with the basics he said to eliminate that simple stuff.
    The car can be driven no problem, it is not in limp mode. But sounds unhealthy and embarassing!
    I am willing to take it to preston audi because i know the guy who looked at it today but he has not replied. Is it worth checking that the oil is getting to top part of the block, anybody have any idea where that is?
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  23. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I've never used Frank Massey, but I've had his name mentioned to me a few times, with gushing praise and recommendations. Legend has it he's one of the best in the business.
    Sound plan in eliminating the simple things, alas I guess there's not many of those left now you've flushed and put in shiny new oil etc.
    Aye, it might not be in limp mode, but if this horrible noise is a result of not enough oil getting to the top end causing things to fail, every mile driven is another mile of metal grinding against metal because of a lack of lubrication. Put it this way, once I was certain I was suffering oil starvation I was s******g my pants driving the car 200 yards to where I could park her pending repairs. Don't want to scare you to death bud, just don't want things to get worse either...
    I don't know of an easy way to accurately check oil flow around the engine (besides connecting a proper oil pressure gauge). I'd assume that when folks have mentioned 'top part of the block' they'd perhaps be referring to everything above the cylinder block itself? Cylinder head / Rocker Cover - basically the business end of the valvetrain. The only quick visual point of inspection at that point is the oil filler aperture itself, but that's not much use as you'll never see anything flowing around in there, and what you can see will likely have a film of oil on it anyway from when you poured it in...

    Regards,

    Rob.
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  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Doesn't sound good mate, personally I wouldn't drive it. It'll only cost more the longer you leave it!

    In completely unrelated news, my old 205 GTI sounded like this one morning...It wasn't anything to do with the alternator, alternator belt, cambelt or pulleys because I checked all that immediately.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o1YZxpbaaU

    It stayed like that for a couple of days but I didn't care about the engine because an Mi swap was on the cards and the sooner it went bang the sooner I could justify changing it...But anyway after a couple of days it went completely silent and ran spot on for the rest of the time I had the car! haha
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  25. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    just seams a little wierd the noise started after an oil change and the problem seams to be coming from the top of the rocker cover. The bloke from audi said maybe its best to get a refurbed cylinder head and then install all new tappets to that one, then its a straight swap over. Hopefully he can fit me in this tuesday at preston audi.

    It just really bugs me when i dont know what is up with the car, and that i cant fix it myself.
    Luckily i have a courtesy car from work for a course im on, so now is the ideal time to get the car sorted! Its a little chevrolet and its pants to drive. Not sure which model. So i havent really driven my car.
    I will keep you informed in what the problem turns out to be
    #25
  26. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    Does anyone know if this a straight forward job from taking the rocker cover off? What is invloved time wise etc, will a haynes manual cover it because there is no manual for the S3?

    cheers
    #26

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