1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Loss of power - slipping clutch or boost leak?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by imported_monkeytrousers, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. [Aug 28, 2005]
    Hi there, had a problem develop with my S3 this weekend. Hope you folk can help diagnose:

    In all gears, but more noticeable in higher gears, I am losing power when revs reach about 3500.

    It's as if the clutch is slipping - the engine can be heard revving up but the power is being lost somewhere.

    Not sure if it's the clutch because moving off and changing gears are perfect, this problem only kicks in later as the revs climb. Can a clutch problem show itself in this way?

    The turbo is working fine - I can hear it as normal - could I have a leak somewhere?

    There are no warning lights on and everything else seems normal. Car's done 33500 miles, chipped three months ago, driven moderately with a bit of fun here and there.

    Help!
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 18, 2014]

  3. imported_Stewart
    Online

    imported_Stewart Guest

    [Aug 28, 2005]
    Exactly what happened to me. Setting off in low gears didnt exhibit any problems, was only when you put your foot down in 4th, 5th and 6th.

    Definitely clutch.

    I went to JBS Auto Designs and had their kevlar composite clutch kit fitted. Sorted, good for up to 400Ibs/ft torque now.
    #2
  4. [Aug 28, 2005]
    How much is a new standard clutch? Is 33500 miles a bit early for the clutch to go? Thanks for the reply.
    #3
  5. imported_Stewart
    Online

    imported_Stewart Guest

    [Aug 28, 2005]
    Why bother with a another standard clutch only for that to go as well?

    There will be comments from guys saying that they have been fine with the standard clutch for x amount of miles but the fact is that a chipped S3 can be producing around 270-290Ibs/ft torque which is really pushing the limits of the standard clutch.

    If you go on the www.uk-mkivs.net forum, in the advertisers section JBS will answer any questions you may have about it.

    AMD also offer various uprated clutches.

    BTW, mine went at 28k miles after 3 weeks being chipped.
    #4
  6. [Aug 28, 2005]
    OK, cheers for your help.
    #5
  7. JamS3
    Offline

    JamS3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    12
    [Aug 29, 2005]
    I wouldn't bank entirely on it being the clutch. You should notice if it is slipping. Is it revving normally or is there the characteristic clutch slip rev as you don't really say?

    Put the car in 5th or 6th gear at about 25-30mph and floor the accelerator, if the clutch is on its way out you should know about it!

    Sounds to me as if you have a boost leak somewhere. Iv'e just had a nightmare with mine loosing power. I changed everything, DV, N75 valve, N249 Valve, plugs, air filter, maf, cleaned all the sensors and finally after about a month tracked it down to the steel pipe that links the two intercoolers has rusted and developed a small hole where the boost has been leaking out!

    I would not go and spend all your cash on a new clutch before you have explored the boost leak avenue
    #6
  8. [Aug 29, 2005]
    Thanks JamS3 - that was my original feeling - clutch or boost leak.

    It's not revving quite normally - but it's not the roar I'm used to with a slipping clutch - it's very subtle.

    Think I'll get Audi to diagnose it, I'm not up for changing things myself.

    Thanks.
    #7
  9. MattS3
    Offline

    MattS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    21
    [Aug 29, 2005]
    Mine had exactly the same symptons, again just 3 weeks after being Revo'd. the car is a 2002 S3 and had travelled 25k.
    I did look into the JBS designs clutch, seemed really up to the job, think it was around £900 fitted.
    However i managed to get a genuine Audi clutch fitted locally to me in Norwich for £600, thus I went for the OEM clutch.
    (Audi want something like £1400 to fit one!)
    If I were closer to JBS I would have gone for that option though, but by the time I take a day off, travel there and wait for the car all day, I can have 2 Audi ones at the equivalant cost, if that makes sense !?
    The previous owner could have been real heavy on the clutch as well, I never give it large from a standing start, I always prefer to get rolling and then get the power in.
    #8
  10. [Aug 29, 2005]
    Is that really the price of a new clutch? I'm horrified! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    Funny, I drove the car today and didn't notice the problem. I need to give it a good run and see what's what.
    #9
  11. imported_Stewart
    Online

    imported_Stewart Guest

    [Aug 29, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Mine had exactly the same symptons, again just 3 weeks after being Revo'd. the car is a 2002 S3 and had travelled 25k.
    I did look into the JBS designs clutch, seemed really up to the job, think it was around £900 fitted.
    However i managed to get a genuine Audi clutch fitted locally to me in Norwich for £600, thus I went for the OEM clutch.
    (Audi want something like £1400 to fit one!)
    If I were closer to JBS I would have gone for that option though, but by the time I take a day off, travel there and wait for the car all day, I can have 2 Audi ones at the equivalant cost, if that makes sense !?
    The previous owner could have been real heavy on the clutch as well, I never give it large from a standing start, I always prefer to get rolling and then get the power in.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That seems like real false economy to me, even if you did pay £1200, what happens (as i said OEM clutches are really at the limit at chipped torque figures) if the new OEM clutch only lasts 25k? The JBS clutch is not only designed to handle the extra power with a massive safety margin but given average driving conditions will last 5 times as long at least (this from James the J out of JBS who quoted the manufacturers)

    So pay out £900 once (over 100k miles) or pay out 4 times for an OEM clutch?

    This topic has been discussed many many times over on uk-mkivs.net and the real feedback is that OEM clutches on a chipped car arent lasting much more than 10k.
    #10
  12. MattS3
    Offline

    MattS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    21
    [Aug 29, 2005]
    Basically if it slips again, I'll switch the Revo off (it was fine before when I swtiched it back when it started slipping) and then sell it.
    One of the first questions I asked on this forum prior to chipping is what about problems etc, no-one ever mentioned the clutch !!
    The JBS option was one I seriously considered but getting from Norwich meant a stay over somewhere, thus loads of hassle and 2 days off work. If I could have got it done locally I would have.
    #11
  13. JamS3
    Offline

    JamS3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    12
    [Aug 30, 2005]
    Well i've done 32k on a standard clutch on a chipped car and never had a problem......
    #12
  14. MattS3
    Offline

    MattS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    21
    [Aug 30, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Well i've done 32k on a standard clutch on a chipped car and never had a problem......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can i ask how long its been chipped or at what mileage it was chipped ?

    Cheers. (i'm hoping my new one will last another 25K so long as I drive it with a little respect)
    #13
  15. JamS3
    Offline

    JamS3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    12
    [Aug 30, 2005]
    It's been chipped since Jan - Feb 2003 and was around 16k when it was done.

    Don't get me wrong I don't hang around but also give the clutch some respect ie no traffic light grand prix!!
    #14
  16. Ess_Three
    Offline

    Ess_Three Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    6
    [Aug 31, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    fact is that a chipped S3 can be producing around 270-290Ibs/ft torque which is really pushing the limits of the standard clutch.

    BTW, mine went at 28k miles after 3 weeks being chipped.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    M3 S3 was making 320-330 lb-ft of torque reliably...and the standard clutch was fine in everyday driving.

    The car was chipped and further modified from 6000 miles...and the clutch was still fine for everyday use at 23000 when I sold it to DavidR.

    It had been chipped for 2 1/2 years by then, and making well over 300 lb-ft for 2 years of that time.

    Now, if you did quarter mile type starts, the clutch would struggle...1st run would be OK, 2nd run would struggle and by the 3rd run it would overheat and slip.
    Let it cool down, and all is fine.

    Now, David has played with the boost curve to deliver slightly less peak torque but hold it longer up the revs...and it's still on the standard clutch at what must be 36000 miles by now.

    So, if you are kind on clutches (use the handbrake for instance) then the clutch should be fine despite running very high torque outputs.
    #15
  17. jesters3
    Offline

    jesters3 Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,516
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Aug 31, 2005]
    When my S3 went in to get a new engine fitted, I arranged for them to replace the clutch at the same time. The clutch had managed to do 90,000 odd miles and the car is a stock S3 with no mods. The cost of the new clutch was £196.67 inc VAT. Labour wasn't charged as it was already scoped for in the engine installation.

    So at 33k I would hope it wouldn't be the clutch regardless of being chipped or not. Must be elsewhere...
    #16
  18. [Sep 2, 2005]
    The problem I had has now "gone away"!

    I've not driven the car for a few days and took it out yesterday and the drive was perfect, no hint of the strange behaviour from last week.

    I'll continue to monitor it but for now all is fine.

    Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing?
    #17
  19. S3Si
    Offline

    S3Si Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 2, 2005]
    I had exactly the same the problem, but about 6 months after chipping, and did a similar post. General consensus was the clutch. Got a few prices but thought i'd leave it for a bit as it only did it after i had been driving for a while, but now, as you say, it seems to have gone away. Very strange, has saved me 600 quid though!
    #18
  20. imported_velcrobix
    Online

    imported_velcrobix Guest

    [Sep 7, 2005]
    Also suffering from this and thinking of getting an uprated clutch. Pretty sure the problem is the clutch in my case as when making quick starts i'm sure it feels weaker than it used to.

    What do people recomend and for what kind of prices? I can get it fitted for a reasonable cost at my local garage.
    #19
  21. Ryanc
    Offline

    Ryanc Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 7, 2005]
    Just for information stakes, standard clutch with 40k on has been fine in normal driving with 345lb/t but i tried some 1/4 mile standing starts and it struggled.
    #20
  22. imported_velcrobix
    Online

    imported_velcrobix Guest

    [Sep 9, 2005]
    Just browsing some web pages and found this quote on an A3 review page.....

    'If the clutch slips, don't renew the mechanism immediately. It might simply be worn pedal return springs - a much cheaper fault to repair.'

    Sounds a bit dodgy to me.
    Could it be an issue??
    #21
  23. [Sep 19, 2005]
    OK, three weeks sine the problem "went away", it's happening again.

    It's so strange, you can hear a slight increase in revs over the norm, and there is a slight feeling of loss of power / bite, but not much. No problems pulling away or changing gear.

    Gave it a bit of a "test" this morning, and the car is still very quick, I can't be sure it's actually slower as a result, it's just a feeling I have.

    I wonder if AMD might know if I phoned them?

    Odd. Not convinced it's the clutch.
    #22
  24. jojo
    Online

    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    26,186
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    [Sep 19, 2005]
    Well well, excellent timing to bring this thread up. Thought I'd give my beast a bit of a thrashing last night, due to the coolish conditions, hoping that it would bring the best out of my car, since I can stop now. Looks like I'm experiencing the same thing, due to the extra torque the cool weather has produced, definitely feels like slipping clutch, and only happens in 3rd gear or above. I can only describe it as when you can hear the turbo spool up, and the torque comes in around the 3K mark, the revs jumps up by 500 revs or so on the rev meter before the car catches up.
    Car has been chipped for last 20K miles, and clock showing just under 50K with one track day of abuse from myself, so still lasting well, but time for an upgrade methinks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
    #23
  25. Ryanc
    Offline

    Ryanc Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Sep 19, 2005]
    My standard clutch lasted 45k no problems,was lasting ok too with IHI.Having a uprated clutch as we speak,but i think you would really notice if it was slipping.
    #24
  26. [Sep 20, 2005]
    jojo - that's a perfect description.

    The over rev is around 500rpm, and yes, the car does catch up with itself if you maintain throttle, just like a slipping clutch would.

    Mine was OK yesterday evening though! Never heard of an intermittent slipping clutch, I'm still puzzled.
    #25
  27. jojo
    Online

    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    26,186
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    jojo - that's a perfect description.

    The over rev is around 500rpm, and yes, the car does catch up with itself if you maintain throttle, just like a slipping clutch would.

    Mine was OK yesterday evening though! Never heard of an intermittent slipping clutch, I'm still puzzled.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Funny thing is, it only happens at around the 3K revs mark, which just so happens to be when the torque peaks on my powerplot. after the initial slipping bit, it's fine, can use all the power for the rest of the rev range. It has to be the clutch, as the front wheels are directly driven like any FWD car, with the only part of the transmission that can slip being the clutch.
    #26
  28. [Oct 25, 2005]
    Update.

    My car hasn't had this problem for about 6 weeks now. Touch wood.

    I spoke to AMD and an Audi dealer, both said this slipping sensation could be caused by some oil or other fluid which has dripped on to the clutch. This would make sense of it being an intermittent problem.

    I think that's what happened. The car is perfect again now, if it really was a dodgy clutch it wouldn't just go away like that.

    Glad I didn't spend £100s on a new clutch.
    #27
  29. jojo
    Online

    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    26,186
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    [Oct 25, 2005]
    Mine is fine too, after a Mr Slug took it for a test drive, so may have cleared whatever was on the clutch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    #28
  30. S3Si
    Offline

    S3Si Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 25, 2005]
    Just to add to this I commented earlier that my car was having the same problem, but noticed it more when I had been on a blast for a bit, ie it had heated up. Mine had gone away for a while until i went to castle coombe at the weekend! Managed 3 laps then the reving started. I let it cool down for an hour and then it was fine for the drive home. Have been out giving it some stick for a while a couple of months ago and i couldn't make it slip again. It's strange, a very intermittent problem. Gut feeling is that your clutch is showing signs of wear but is still strong enough on most occasions, just my opinion though! Wouldn't worry about it until it does it more often.
    #29
  31. pazaz
    Offline

    pazaz Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2004
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 25, 2005]
    I had mine chipped about 6 Mths ago and the car has done approx 60k and guess what?? it started happening to me on Saterday. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    Its only in higher gears when accelerating hard and you can see thr rev counter waver a bit until it stops, then she keeps pulling as normal.

    Thought I would do some research on here, before ordering a new clutch. I am glad I seen this thread fisrt.

    A M8 sugguested today that it could be the Master Cylinder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gifanybody any views on this one?

    That thing about the pedal springs on the post earlier is also a possibility?

    Fingers Crossed

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #30
  32. MattS3
    Offline

    MattS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    21
    [Oct 25, 2005]
    If there is oil dripping onto the clutch, wouldn't that indicate another problem somewhere ?
    #31
  33. mikmoila
    Offline

    mikmoila New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    Broken dual-mass flywheel causes exactly the above mentioned type of slipping. Having engine oil on the clutch surface would require the broken crankshaft sealer/washer, which is very uncommon.
    #32
  34. [Oct 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    If there is oil dripping onto the clutch, wouldn't that indicate another problem somewhere ?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You would have thought so, I didn't necessarily mean engine oil, but some kind of fluid.

    Both AMD and Audi told me not to worry about it unless the problem comes back.

    I would love to hear from someone with a definitive answer on this.
    #33
  35. [Oct 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Broken dual-mass flywheel causes exactly the above mentioned type of slipping.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Would this cause an intermittent problem? And what does the flywheel do - I'm not mechanically minded?

    Cheers
    #34
  36. mikmoila
    Offline

    mikmoila New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    Yes, broken 2-mass fw causes clutch slipping during a certain gear/rpm range. On standard 1.8t this is 3500-4000 rpm / 5th gear.

    2-mass flywheel has a moving inner plate for dampening the clutch disc operations. Dampening is done -- at least partially -- with some silicone type mass, which tends to fly away, and thus causes the inner fw disc to move in undampened, uncontrolled way.

    FW problems are really common with 1.8t engines.
    #35
  37. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    This thread is amazing....this could be the cause of the hesitation my car has been experiencing!! Thing is I have never experienced a slipping clutch, so still not 100% sure if it could be the cause of my cars hesitation. BUT the descriptions above by jojo and mik are very close to how my car behaves.

    Mostly occurs in higher gears, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. Mostly around 3500-4000rpm, but more recently at any revs. Eg. this morning 3rd gear, 3/4 throttle accelaration onto motorway, 4000-5000rpm car was boosting fine, revs climbing as you'd expect. 5000rpm revs climbing but car does not feel to be accelerating proportionally to the revs, 5500-6000rpm car seems to "catch up" and feel on power again.

    Whats significant about the descriptions by others is, it does seem to happen more when the car is hot. Drive the car hard, and it occurs more. Yet 1st and 2nd gears seem fine. Standing starts are also ok. Also, the problem, whether it be hesitation / clutch, never occurs on a through-the-gears blast.

    With my car, I have recently noticed a metallic or mechanical whirrrrrrrring noise, only slightly audible under the noise of the engine. When you let the revs fall at low speeds, e.g. 20mph, and the revs fall through 3000->2500rpm, you hear this mechanical whirrrrrrrring noise. Any body else had this?

    Car has done 35000 miles too. Unchipped. But I do give the clutch some abuse, with standing starts. Hey, whats for 4wd drive for after all!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    AL
    #36
  38. mikmoila
    Offline

    mikmoila New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    That noise _might_ be due vibrating FW assembly. Of course, impossible to say without opening the clutch.

    And yes, slipping seems to happen only after the car has been driven approx. 1h.
    #37
  39. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    Forgive my ignorance mik....FW assembly?

    Thanks

    AL
    #38
  40. jojo
    Online

    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    26,186
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    [Oct 26, 2005]
    FlyWheel assembly

    Just like to add that my car only had the clutch slip when it was cold, but it disappeared when warmed up?
    #39
  41. [Oct 26, 2005]
    Mine wasn't related to it being cold / hot. It did it all the time for a week or so, then disappeared for a fortnight, then came back for a few days, and haven't had it for 6 weeks now ... including on a 300 mile round trip to Bristol one day.
    #40

Share This Page