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Looking to buy a 2004 AUDI S4

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by ROSSCOV8, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. ROSSCOV8
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    ROSSCOV8 New Member

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    Hello, This is my first time on this website, as said in my title im looking to buy a 2004 audi s4 convertible .Was thinking of the auto with paddle shift.:s4addict:
    Im looking for advice on what to look out for , for instance engine faults , equipment , just general stuff . Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    2 Doors, Automatic, Cabriolet, Petrol, 23,000 miles, ULTRA LOW MILEAGE UNMARKED SILVER FASH. ABS, Adjustable steering column/wheel, Alloy wheels, Climate Control, Computer, Electric mirrors, Electric windows, Foglights, Electrically adjustable seats, Lumbar support, Power assisted steering, Full Main Dealer Service History, High Level Brake Light, Multi Airbags, Radio Single CD System, Remote alarm and central locking. Insurance Group:20, Front Arm Rest, Cup Holder, Quality Stereo System.A PRISTINE CHERISHED EXAMPLE OF THIS AWESOME SPORT CONVERTIBLE, SILKY SMOOTH V8 POWER AND STUNNING RED LEATHER WITH BLACK DOOR INSERTS PLUS CARBON TRIM.VERY LOW MILEAGE WITH RECENT AUDI SERVICE, ALL BOOKS, KEYS AND READY TO ENJOY FOR THE SUMMER.REDUCED TO CLEAR, NO OFFERS OR TIMEWASTERS PLEASE AT THIS GIVEAWAY PRICE.Up to three years warranty available

    Thanks
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  2. NHN
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    What are you looking for out of the car cause I had the S4 V8 & tbh it was a lovely car but was a let down for me interms of power, also prepare yourself for extreme fuel costs cause they are very very juicy, most times about 16-20mpg & 20mpg if lucky but usually way below.

    If I was you I'd consider something like a 3.0 TDI Quattro Tip cause they certainly move like of a shovel & have number of tuning possibilities & I think would be 50% or more better on your pocket which you could spend on having its tuned to the ****** & still have great fuel economy, I mean 250BHP is easily achieved with a map & I would say alot more noticeable than the S4, but the 340bhp of the V8 is very lacklustre tbh trust me & the TDI is very quick indeed
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  3. heli_madken
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    heli_madken Member

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    I have a 2005 S4, I had some problems initially with coil packs but that affects almost all petrol Audi's just more expensive with 8 of them.

    I have had mine remapped so perhaps its not too fair to say that the comments about a lack of power are in my view a load of b@ll@cks, driven hard the engine purely sings and the torgue is phenomenal, being a mad man I have raced a fair few Subaru's and come off better. Whether the power is laclustre or not I am not sure but in terms of raw acceleration you wont be dissappointed.

    Brakes are much better than standard A4's and certainly haul you to a stop no problem

    True about fuel costs but with the price of S4's tumbling you will be able to pick up one really cheap compared to a year ago.

    One more thing in a cabriolet you dont want to listen to an oil burner, try driving some country lanes with that V8 howl, you wont be dissapointed!
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  4. NHN
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    I also had mine remapped & had an S3 at the same time, so what I'm saying isnt ********, the remap did very little to improve the power, only went up by 25bhp anyway, I think thats why they have decided to change the new one to a supercharger rather than naturally aspirated with a V6 rather than V8, V8's are on way out anyway, Detroit is all but finished up with them, they just are not needed in the real world anymore.

    As far as the howl goes, I dont buy a car for how it sounds, I buy it for 2 things together, looks & drivability, if I wanted to get a cheaper version of the V8 howl then I could always get a Fiesta & put a hole in the exhaust so its blowing all the time, lol

    The oil also gets eaten up fair bit & its not cheap stuff either, the fuel price decline is only temp anyway so yeah you can buy an S4 cheaper now, but its not the car cost, its the running of them, there's a reason why they are so cheap aswell as already advised, running them requires a 2nd mortgage & constant stops at the petrol station just got on my nerves.

    Spend your money on something better on your pocket that the spare fuel cash allows you to have it tuned to give you the excitement of the drive, the V8 naturally aspirated IMHO is a let down, but each to there own, S3 is alot more fun by the way.
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  5. PW-Motorsport
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    PW-Motorsport Member

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    I had a S4 V8 a few years back, few niggles, coil pack, as above, aux radiators leaked, timing chain rattle on cold start.

    I remapped my car with the APR felt a lot sharper, moved the rev limit and removed the 155 limit as a quick cross Europe dash confirmed.

    Enjoyed the car was not too thirsty iro 22/25mpg and the tank range is poor 230/260miles. A much improved car over the old S4.
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  6. NHN
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    You sure you got your sums right, isnt it a 55 litre tank?

    I wouldnt agree it wasnt a huge improvement over the older S4, I'd say it was fairly sedate car TBH
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  7. heli_madken
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    heli_madken Member

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    'Sedate' mmmm I certainly wouldnt describe it that way having just driven mine home and feeling the force exterted by the engine but I guess it has to be considered in relation to what you are used to driving so as you say each to there own.

    As for fuel economy I would hope that our new friend realises that V8's and fuel economy dont mix so its not even worth talking about, if its an issue for you then simply dont buy one!

    I cant draw a comparison to the earlier S4 because I havent driven one but from what I have heard I can appreciate it is a very quick car, what I can do though is compare it to the 3.0 TDI Quattro that I have driven, wonderful car but if ROSSCOV8 is after a driving experience then I am afraid no comparison can be made both in terms of performance and yes I do think the way a car sounds is important!!

    In relation to the original request the S4 does have its problems as do many cars, what I advise is a good search on this forum and other Audi forums to see what comes up, incidentaly if it is a 2004 S4 you are after it will be a B6 model

    Cheers
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  8. NHN
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    When you compare it to an S3 Turbo charged with 275bhp then for me it was sedate as I found my S3 was more fun & maybe even quicker, I had a few S3's pull away from my S4 & its all very well feeling the force exerted by the V8 but actually putting that plant onto the ground & actually feeling like it is 365bhp is another matter & given the extra weight aswell so this made it sedate.

    As for the 3.0TDI, I said yeah with tuning it would be more fun than the S4, the money u'd save on fuel u could tune that car massively & get 300horses or maybe more so from that it would be a match for the S4 I'd say & still have good economy, it is a V6 in the TDI, the new S4 is a V6 supercharged, the older S4 was a V6 & that was something else when tuned.

    & if you buy a car by the sounds its making then I'd say you were a little nuts fella, nothing personal you understand but I certainly wouldnt hear a V8 & go oh yeah I'll have that, for me its power, looks, handling, technology, fuel, SH, all these things, only thing on the sound side would be if it was too bloody loud, lol, dont need something to grab attention when driving down the road, needs to be stealth like so people dont look at you all the time or leave yourself open to being pulled by the old bill.

    Cant stand cars booming along past me with stupid exhausts & loud subs, V8 of course has a nice hum to it but certainly didnt buy mine for the noise it made, lol.
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  9. ROSSCOV8
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    ROSSCOV8 New Member

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    Im not sure whither to buy one or not now. I used to have a vauxhall monaro 5.7 V8 and enjoyed every min of that. I then moved to an astra vxr , which i got chipped . Much smaller engine but feels alot faster . What i want is something as comfortable as the monaro with the vxr performance . Is the audi for me ?
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  10. NHN
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    Get an S3 8P & something like a Giac map or do a Jonny & go for 400 horses & I guarantee you wont be let down, but V8 S4 IMHO is kinda boring given your previous cars mate, dont get me wrong V8 S4 was very very nice car but far more enjoyed the S3 8L

    Do you give a ***** about economy?
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  11. heli_madken
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    heli_madken Member

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    Rosscov8, Please dont be entirely swayed by opinions here, after all NHN is driving a 2.0 TDI A3 at the moment so his S3 experiences havent persuaded him to actually own one at present.

    I suggest you get a few test drives under your belt and make your own choice. Also look at performance figures for the S4 against other models, eg 3.0 standard TDI 6.8 0>60, consider the money you will need to spend on the drivetrain, clutch brakes etc to get similar performance to an S4, you also mentioned a Cabriolet which of course the S3 hasnt an option on an 04 plate

    By the way one of the guys on the B6 forum has a nice one for sale - http://audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=61966
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  12. NHN
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    Excuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee mister I cant read the fecking thread properly, I had an S4 B6 Avant for 2 fecking years, get your facts right pal before you start pissing on other AS members
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  13. heli_madken
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    Sorry thought you where recommending S3's not S4's I havent disputed your S4 ownership at all just stating what you currently own, dont get too upset I am just trying to be unbiased, calm down now:)
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  14. MattS3
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    Its an interesting thread, and i'm really amused by the fact that someone really believes a diesel can sound so much more accoustically pleasing than a petrol V8.
    To also comment that you prefer a stealth style of vehicle, which when looking at the A3 you have in your signature is far from mundane, (especially with those rims,) seems to be edging towards double standards.

    And sure, diesel is a great way to go if :
    - you need to drive a lot of miles on a budget
    - are not bothered about having a mass delivery of torque thrown at you from 2k to 4k and then nothing else
    - dont mind having slippery soles on your shoes every time you step back in your car after filling up and the smell which goes with it
    - driving at 70 mph to get the best MPG (Ive had VAG diesel hire cars which will achieve 45mpg easily at a steady 70, however start driving them on boost and more aggressively, and that soon drops to sub 30 mpg quite quickly)

    However, if you want a linear power delivery, a great sound track, pretty much an all round sorted car, and you dont mind 20 - 25 mpg, then an S4 is certainly worth exploring. And at current prices, they are begining to be a steal.

    If your not put off by fuel prices, like the sound of a proper petrol engine, want a realtively stealthy vehicle which can tick quite a few boxes in terms of ownership and is a pleasure to own, go drive an S4. If you dont want any of the above, then go look somewhere else, thats my advice. :)
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  15. heli_madken
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    heli_madken Member

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    oh thank you so much I wondered where you all where thought I was on my own, jeez!!
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  16. NHN
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    Calm down, No mate that comment made you sound very condescending & stuck up your own arse IMHO & if you had read the thread thoroughly instead of just what seems as browsing, then you'd seen I had actually been talking about the A4 tuned & S3 as comparisions to the S4 which I had actually owned, aswell as the S3, what I choose to own now is nothing to do with this thread, but as I've owned an S4 he is discussing for few years & the S3 & also driven the A4 & know the tuning possibilities of the A4 let alone the comparisions of his previous cars which are all I think turbo charged then you would see my point overall when you consider the naturally aspirated S4 is such a heavy car.

    Again I state I was just comparing alternatives given my experiences with the S4, his cars as he has shown wernt exactly slouches & all had a hell of a punch where as the S4 IMHO again wasnt anywhere near as fun or gave you a boost as say the S3 or a tuned A4. As for stating what I currently own, you put it in the way as though I didnt actually know what the feck I was talking about, as I owned the said car anyway I would say what I own now again i state is feck all to do with this thread, also to add if you'd read it more you'd see I was saying if you were to consider the savings in fuel of the diesel even with tuning that would easily cater for a big upgrade to the 3.0 TDI, not stock cars against eachother, even tuned a 3.0 TDI would still probably get close to twice the mpg of the S4 anyway.

    There's a nice A3 TDI thats been heavily tuned & been in mags that Mikey owns that gives I think upto 38mpg still & feck me does it move, but with brilliant economy & what something like 300bhp of course different chassis but still shows you what you can do with the diesels these days, heard of the diesel R8 that was faster than the petrol one??? Different car but again shows you what they can do these days with a diesel

    What you seem to not have realised is look at the cars he's owned & then consider what he'd maybe call fun driving, given my expereince for 2 years on the S4 & the S3 for 7 years I think my points clear, but depends what he wants huh

    Thats why I asked Rossco does economy matter & still awaiting reply

    I had number of points not just straight comparisons

    What so you now need moral support, lol, I think you're big enough to stand up & be counted than have to rely on others no???

    I'd like to further add that if you buy & drive a car just for what it sounds like then just do as my post further up shows cause thats a kinda stupid way to look at cars, for what it sounds like, never bought a car for the audio side of it, lol, please seriously, I mean I've had VR6's, S3, S4, GTI's, not once did I go oooooooooh that sounds nice I'll buy it

    Yeah its the lowest form but you get my point, thats why there's resonated & non cause its only a way of extending your penis size if we're honest
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  17. NHN
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    I see you didnt read it properly either, maybe specsavers would help you as to post without actually taking into consideration all the posts I made & all the info shows your ignorance, just wanted to put your pawprint on a thread, well next time do it after reading it all yeah so its valid.

    1st I havnt once compared the SOUND as you put it of the diesel to a petrol car, not once & if you read my last post, again I state about the sound of a car, so try a little harder next time yeah, I mean who gives a ***** what it sounds like as long as its not a gearbox or engine about to blow sound, these diesels dont sound like they used to interms of tractors, but for me & most people I know its the drive that matters not if it has a loud booming engine/exhaust, as already stated if you buy a car based on the noise it makes then you're mad for sure

    2nd my A3 apart from the wheels looks exactly as a standard say S-Line so how you got to that conclusion is beyond me & quite hilarious, its cause of the image is alot smaller & angle of the sunlight, so they look alot more bling which in real life they are far from & if you think my wheels are bling or anything substantial then maybe you need to get out more & see some of the wheels on A3's on this site, mine are far from OTT I can assure you of that, they are pretty much A8 style anyway if you'd take the time to notice, maybe its cause my car is often not clean the wheels stand out, but all my mods if you again would read are oem not anything above so kinda makes your reply to my comment about stealth a complete load of ****, so howz that double standards huh, a change in wheels, lol

    3rd you dont need to drive on a budget to be reason to drive a diesel, maybe you'd like to say that to the R8 diesel driver for audi, lol, not once have I walked through diesel & into the car with a nice smell which would indicate inability to aim the pump into the car tank but on the floor, also even if you did floor it getting 30mpg thats still 40-50% more than you get with an S4 & unless you drive an S4 like a grandpa or as you would say like a diesel at 70 all the time there is no way on this planet you will get a constant 22-25mpg, no way in hell, even by PW's sums thats not feasible as its a 63 litre tank & its about 250miles to a tank, with 4.54 litres to gallon thats what mpg??? Would be more like 19mpg but realistically its 17-20mpg nowhere near 22-25mpg.

    Anyway Rossco, I'd say as Ashley says an audi is right for you but just have to choose the right one, overall consider your point for buying the previous cars, look at the market now & test aload of cars, consider the tuning possibilities for the cars available as I'm guessing you like sudden bit of thrust based on your last ones so yeah stock a4 3.0tdi isnt near the S4 but man it can be with some money & work, using the money that would go in the tank of the S4 but another good thing is the TDI will still keep saving money all the time with 30+mpg even with mapped & other tuning.

    These are of course just our inputs & its down to personal preference, hey I never said the S4 wasnt a good car, infact I actually said it was a very very nice car loved it to bits but interms of fun let me down, but not everyone's like me, I'm just going by your previous cars aswell when I reply.
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  18. MattS3
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    Thats what I just love about these forums.....everyones allowed an opinion, just so long as it doesn't contradict anyone else's. (who of course, always know better)

    You drive your diesel car, enjoy it. Keep modding it too, i'm sure it will all help come re-sale time.......(and yes, I can state that, I have experience of Impreza's and and a modded S3, so I know its money down the drain, but feel free to challenge me otherwise, I'm sure you will)

    Back on topic, even if fuel is even at £1.30 a litre, my 10k per year will only ever see my fuel bill rise from £2k per year to £2.6k at the most. If you can't afford a possible extra £600 in fuel per year, best look away from an S4.
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  19. JamesS4cab
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    Just found this thread and as the person that is selling the S4 in the link above, I have to stand very firmly on the fact that the S4 is stunning. I had a Porsche Boxster before with a few tweeks, and the Audi is way quicker.

    If you S4 is/was sluggish, I would suggest several things.

    1) Run the car on 98/99 RON all the time - it does make a big difference
    2) Get the ECU reset - its a memory ECU and remembers how the car is driven over the life of the car, so if you linger in traffic a lot, and don't give it the beans, it won't respond so well. I have just had mine fully reset and the difference is fantastic. If you have been using 95 RON a lot you will also need to get the ECU reset.
    3) Get the throttle body re-aligned - 5 min job thru VAGCOM - again massive difference.

    The S4 isn't that cheap to run, there is no escaping that, but you are driving a 4.2 V8 with 344bhp. This isn't a diesel and it isnt a 2.0 Fsi petrol. I have generally found that the people that moan about the cost of running their cars shouldn't have bought it in the first place. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. (And in my case, dont get engaged after you buy one.....) My Porsche was super expensive to maintain, but if you love your cars, you deal with that. If you going to buy an S4 and moan that you only get 20mpg, dont bother buying it. 23-24 mpg can be obtained quite easily, but in all honesty, WTF is the point in having so much power, and then driving like you are driving Miss Daisy?? Thats right - there is no f00kin point whatsoever.

    The S4 cabriolet can be a pussy cat, and it can be an animal. For me the practicality of 4 seats, plus the power which is normally associated with something that is totally impracticle is unmatchable. I will be gutted to get rid of mine, and have spent a lot of time and money getting it to how it is now. The paint work is truly stunning, and mechanically it is spot on.

    Anyway, ROSCOV8 - if you CAN afford it, my advice is to do it. You wont regret it. I have owned a Porsche, driven TVR Chimeras, Lotus Exige and Elise, BMW M3, Scooby STI, other Audi's and they aren't in the same league. Yes the Porsche was a better "brand", the TVR was quicker, the Lotus' were more "involved", the BMW was more raw, the Scooby was just "brutal" but more tacky, the A4 cab diesel was more economical but FM was it dull.........but as an all round package FOR ME, the S4 really does tick all the boxes.

    Plus it pays for my wedding!!
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  20. FactionOne
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    Me too; but unfortunately I didn't find it while browsing - I find myself here as a result of yet another reported post (we're having a few over the last few days, from various sources (and in this case someone who hasn't even posted on the thread - they were shocked enough at what they read) - there is a bit of a concerning theme emerging too).

    So, without naming people publicly, I would first like to give congratulations on such a lovely welcoming impression of ASN that has been given to ROSSCOV8. There's a fine line between cogent debate and arguing like bitches. Unfortunately I feel (and evidently others do too), that this thread has pretty quickly gotten on the wrong side of the line.

    It strikes me that in places a bit of time to breath might've been better before launching into pretty firery replies.

    Lets look at the situation here in a few basic areas (and that WAS lets look, not lets ARGUE, or even in fact lets debate)...

    ROSSCOV8 arrives here hoping to find out if there are any common problems with a 2004 S4; because he's all but decided to buy one. Pretty quickly people are pulling his idea to bits - OK not offensively so at first, and of course with them speaking from personal experience, the opinion might be valid/helpful.

    It might be helpful to chronical perceptions of fuel economy, power delivery and handling - I'm by no means saying there's nothing wrong with that. The problem develops when it gets a bit more heated, at the end of the day there's little point getting at each-other's throats over issues which are pretty damn far off topic. Lets remember, ROSSCOV8 was asking if there are any common problems with his CHOICE that he should be aware of. It'd be pretty unlikely that he's unaware there's a difference in the economy and power delivery of a 4.2L V8 and a TDI of any description. Jeez, even his username is a clue...

    That's accentuated when it remains pretty heated even after ROSSCOV8 has given a few more clues to what he's about...

    The guy has owned a 5.7 litre V8 car previously - I think that probably means he's got a decent perception of whether they'll do 100 miles to a tenner or not. Yes fuel is cheaper now, yes it'll probably go back up - but I'm confident the Monaro with its V8 a full litre and a half bigger than that in the S4 probably gave a good impression of what to expect.

    It's probably also a safe bet that he's a bit of a petrol head - from his car history and description of it, as above, you could probably take it for granted that he knows about the key differences between a 4.2L V8 and anything else, so why we're getting all hot and bothered about 2.0TFSIs, 3.0TDIs and anything else is pretty much a mystery...

    As a few people have picked-up on, it would appear that ROSSCOV8 is looking for a practical (read: big) car, with a decent amount of power - delivered progressively (hence the V8) - this pretty much ratifies his decision to go for an S4.

    Being particularly unimpressed with the way the normally complimentary style of debate which occurs on ASN appears to have been compromised, I'll get off the fence for a split second and venture an opinion of my own - It might appear, NHN, that your own perception/opinion of the fun derived from power delivery might be weighted toward whether you get a big kick in the back or not. What do an S3 and a tuned TDI have in common? The bulk of the power from each arrives more or less all at once - once their turbos are wound up. I'm not saying they're identical, obviously there are still differences between the petrol and the diesel; but what I am saying is that no matter how 'progressive/smooth' the map you whack on them, they're never going to be as progressive and linear as the delivery from a N/A V8. If that difference in power delivery counts toward the fun-factor for you, that's great, sincerely, good for you. We have to maintain a little perspective though, and realise that what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. People might find preference in different things.

    I can completely agree that the sound of a car can be a nice bonus, it's probably not the overriding factor in a decision to buy for the majority. It's not worth arguing about though; and to be honest, there's no denying that the V8 will always sound nicer than a 4-pot petrol, or diesel (even a V6).

    I've driven all kinds of cars, the last two have been TDIs. I've had them because they're more suited to what I need. Would I prefer the TDI to sound exactly like an N/A V8 petrol if it could? Damn straight I would. If fuel-economy and the amount of torque from that amount of fuel didn't matter to me, would I prefer an N/A V8? Damn straight I would. I hasten to add that I'm aware that might not be the case for everyone, but does that make me wrong? I think not, it makes it a completely subjective, personal opinion.

    I'm not going to venture any more personal opinions on one car over the other, just request that we can chill out and get back on topic a bit...

    So, common problems with S4s then - so far we've got Coil Packs, which are probably not too serious... Any others?...

    Regards,

    Rob.
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  21. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Active Member

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    FactionOne - a very well thought out post, and one, that, from what i read pretty much mirrors my opinions and comments. As someone that currently owns an S4, has experienced plenty of other vehicles, I think I am fairly well placed to offer an opinion and advice on the joys of ownership :salute:

    I have actually PM'd ROSCO and offered to speak to him about S4's as mine is for sale, and he is more than welcome to give me a call.....as long as he buys it!! :rock:

    As for common faults - I will add aux radiators - £350 a pair fitted. Also roof locking mechanism - £550-600 fitted. Thats what I have had in the past 6 months and on both occassions was told they are fairly common. :detective2:
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  22. MattS3
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    Well said my FactionOne, I thank you for your intervention and maturity

    So,
    1. Coilpacks (touchwood no issues for me yet)
    2. Start up timing chain rattle (nothing to worry about)
    3. Oil usage (I find its around 250ml per 1k miles, same as my old S3)
    4. Auxilary rads do leak (touchwood, no probs with mine to date, but look at £500 if they do go)

    Other than those, I can only think stuff normally associated with any A4:

    1. Broken glovebox hinge (just make sure you lubricate if it starts to get sieze)
    2. Broken catch on centre armrest lid

    Cheers
    Matt
    #22
  23. MattS3
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    MattS3 Member

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    You beat me to it James !

    Rads at £350 seems a good price too, even better :eek:) (was that at an Independant or Audi?)
    #23
  24. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Active Member

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    I paid £350 fitted at an independent specialist that was trying very hard to sell me a Revo re-map.....mmmmmm
    #24
  25. JohnC
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    Hi James - could you not have had the aux rads done under warranty? Mine went in 2006 and I got them replaced at an Audi Centre. All hassle-free and they knew exactly what it was as soon as I told them it was losing coolant.
    #25
  26. NHN
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    This is exactly what my point was about the S4 B6 & this is an exact quote from Top Gears website about the B8 S4 & comment on old one, funny that huh how my comments are also the same from a well respected program that most of us have loved to watch over the years:

    "It's quite a party trick, and one that rapidly dispels TG's biggest criticism of the old S4: that it simply wasn't engaging enough to justify the premium over a top-spec diesel A4."

    http://www.topgear.com/uk/audi/a4/road-test/s4

    No I'm not starting a fire again Rob, but there's no denying what my original comment was about & now backed up by some pretty experienced people from Top Gear who know what they're talking about (mostly) lol
    #26
  27. Macduff
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    Macduff Member

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    I remember JC describing the B6 S4's handling as "sublime". Have a search on YouTube for the TG S4 article.
    #27
  28. NHN
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    I think they maybe meant it maybe made you goto sleep a little as it wasnt to as they say engaging & minimum input from driver, personally it was alot of noise over nothing, dont get me wrong it was a stunning car, loved it to bits, but I expected more grunt for the noise & S4 badge, engine to heavy & needed a turbo or 2, lol
    #28
  29. MattS3
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    MattS3 Member

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    Having seen the complete TG crew at the Top Gear awards ceremony on Mon evening this week, I'll struggle to take anything they say seriously anymore.
    #29
  30. NHN
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    Really, can you expand on that a little, or bottom line they were talking ****** & complete dicks, lol
    #30
  31. MattS3
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    Probably best not to comment about it here in depth, but lets just say it was a fascinating insight to certain peoples behaviour and attitudes.

    It was a fab night though and was great to be there for everything else.
    #31
  32. NHN
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    Its a forum fella, if you cant express your views on here of things, then where can you, go for it, I'm intrigued to know what they're like in reality.
    #32
  33. MattS3
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    Lots of people see forums, and thats where the problem would then start for me!
    #33

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