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leon cupra r brembos on my s3 ?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by motfree, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    #1
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  3. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    Don't buy the above. Have a look in this section for my thread entitled "brembos on eBay".
    #2
  4. jcs356
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    jcs356 Brum brum

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    Ref. LCR Brembos:
    You need the calipers, the mounting brackets and ideally the lines as well as the standard S3 ones aren't quite long enough to reach the Brembo calipers on full lock without putting tension in the lines. I had my car both pass and fail an MOT with the original S3 ones in place. I now have braided LCR ones which are a bit longer and hence the correct fit.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
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  5. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
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  6. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
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  7. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    So go with lcr brembos aslong as they have adaptors and lines ?
    Just mine are pretty bad after a good blip
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  8. g10chy
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    g10chy Member

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    Also, thinking about this upgrade. Where do you get the adaptors from?
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  9. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    Adaptors as in carriers? If you can source some LCR calipers, you will, in most cases, get the carriers too. My research in buying used LCR brakes, which includes the calipers/carriers/pads/disks/brake lines are between £500-£700 dependant on condition. I sold a complete set to Dane on here for £550, as the caliper lacquer was peeling off, but they was in great working condition. Obviously, £700 is in the mint range that's covered minimal mileage.
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  10. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    I bought some mounting brackets from SEAT once and they wasnt as much as i feared to be honest,
    I cant remember how much but worth ringing them,
    Its largely the discs that will sting you,
    Worth bearing in mind when buying second hand. If the discs are dead add about 150 to the overall cost for a new decent pair,
    #9
  11. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    TBH its simply not a big enough upgrade over the 312mm setup to justify 700quid imo.
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  12. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    From a performance point of view? They do look good in bright RED don't you think? :cool:
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  13. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    I would if i didnt have the GT jnr kit, Buy a pair of Boxster S front calipers, Use LCR mounting brackets ( with a small amount machined off the top ) and use good quality 312mm discs. They even look better
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  14. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    So £200 Is a bargain then with Everything ?? Just been reprinted aswel ..
    Also what are standard on s3's ??
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
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  15. scoobyra
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    scoobyra It's not f@cking ORANGE!!!!!

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    Hmmmm.............

    I soooo need to pull my finger out with the Evo conversion!!!
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  16. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    Thought the red one was going Mike.
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  17. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    Haha, Mikes fallen in love with it!
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  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    That depends entirely on what they're used for really.....

    For a road car, that will never see a track, then perhaps I could agree.

    For a car that might be used on track, or is regularly driven hard on the roads, then it's one of the single most worthwhile upgrades you can do.

    If I had to choose between my brakes or my engine mods, I'd take the brakes every time. they're just amazing.
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  19. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    I could'nt disagree more.. lol

    I had 312mm setup on my BT Golf4, and immediately changed them for the 323mm GT Kit, shhc was the dire fade I experienced with the 312's...

    brembo 4-pots are a significant upgrade over single piston 312mm brakes..
    new price for them is >£1000

    Much more braking effort over 312mm setup..
    #18
  20. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 26, 2010]
    Well I think I'll go ahead with the upgrade then ..
    Got to be better than what's on it at the mo ..
    What size discs are they ??
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  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    LCR discs are 323x28mm

    I believe Bill sells a kit to space them out to 330mm with 2 piece discs too!
    #20
  22. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    Oh might have to find out how much he wants for those .. But won't be able to see them that well as they're going behind avus ( s3 alloys ) .. But I want them to stand out !!
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  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    A caliper doesnt cause or alleviate fade.

    To reduce fade you either need to fit a larger disk (more thermal mass), fit pads that are happy operating at a higher temperature, or improve the cooling.

    Similarly, to improve braking effort you need a larger disk, or larger piston area, or a pad with a higher coefficient of friction. The piston area on LCR brembos is around the same as the 312mm calipers, so the only difference your making is a tiny increase in disk diameter, and different pads.

    The disk diameter increase isnt enough to make any real world difference imo, its a few % increase in torque for a given line pressure, which just leaves the pads.

    As i said, i dont believe that going from a 312mm disk to a 323mm disk is going to give any real improvement in braking. Whats more likely is your fitting much more aggressive pads at the same time, and those more agressive pads could easily have been fitted to the 312mm calipers.

    For £700 i'd be wanting to go upto 340+ on the front, plus a rear upgrade too.
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  24. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    So are s3 4 pots as standard ?
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  25. jcs356
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    jcs356 Brum brum

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    Nope
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  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    There's more to the Brembo GT/LCR kit than just braking performance. When fitting the Brembo's, you need to use braided hoses, which increases brake feel slightly, and then there's the reduced unsprung weight. The brembo calipers, along with the carriers are noticeably lighter than the standard S3 312mm carriers and caliper setup.
    #25
  27. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    yep, but you cant attribute the improvements given by fitting braided lines to the calipers, as you could have fitted braided lines to the stock calipers for about 50quid...
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  28. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    Right but the brembo lcr setup is better than standard s3 setup ?? And especially if I get them for £200 ..
    Do I get braided lines for a lcr or an s3 ?? Dont have a clue where to buy them from
    #27
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    Drop Bill at Badger 5 a PM... he knows all about these types of calipers an I know he keeps braided lines for the Brembo kits he does... they are the same ones I have on my S3 with AP calipers...

    <tuffty/>
    #28
  30. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    That wasn't the point I'm trying to make, the Brembo setup comes with(or should do) the braided hoses as part of the package, the 'standard' 312mm setup doesn't. I'm merely pointing out that your £700+ doesn't just buy you 11mm of extra brake disks, and 4 pots over the single piston of the 312mm setup.
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  31. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    Seriously man, you are just WRONG! Wrong in every way.

    I had 312's with arguably the best disc/pad setup used, DS2500 pads and black diamond discs.

    I upgraded to porsche 996 4 pots, and even with standard pads, they're a million times better.

    4 pot alloy Calipers DO help reduce fade, as do the larger pads that fit them.

    The larger pads of the 4 pots, and the large alloy caliper (compared to a standard cast steel caliper) can dissipate heat much better than the standard setups.

    The 4 pots also feel MUCH more reliable when stopping from 120+. Above 100 the 312's wouldn't give any real confidence no matter how hard you pressed the pedal. With the 4 pots, even at 140mph you can just STAMP on the pedal and the speed drops off in seconds! The thing is, they'll do that time and time again, with no loss of performance at all. the 312's are totally dead after just 1 hard stop from 140.
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  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    I have done this EXACT upgrade and it was significantly improved braking effort... std pads vs std pads... 312mm to 323mm, single pot to 4-pot

    Unless you have done the same, and compared, how can you say its not worth doing when it patently is?
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  33. scoobyra
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    scoobyra It's not f@cking ORANGE!!!!!

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    Joe and JD (man I've forgotten your bloody name again LOL.....Jase??) I can't sell the Red one......and yes, the black one is kinda growing on me. I want to get it to Bill's to see how safe it is. It's effin quick!

    As for the brakes, 4 pots miles better than standard calipers (I have both!) but I still get brake fade with the Brembo's ......... when braking from 130mph+ and it's quite unnerving, especially as they don't work at all the second time around!!
    #32
  34. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Dec 28, 2010]

    That's really bad man! Must be bad discs or pads.....

    My 996 330mm 4 pots can brake time and time again from 140mph down to 50-60, lap after lap of the ring with no signs of fading what so ever!
    #33
  35. scoobyra
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    scoobyra It's not f@cking ORANGE!!!!!

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    It's a Junior GT kit with drilled discs Nick......to be fair, I do tend to stand on them a bit!! LOL

    You need to see the black car....it's a beast :)
    #34
  36. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    by fade do you mean hard pedal and not stopping.. as opposed sinking pedal and not stopping?
    pads if the former.. high temp fluid and ducting if the latter..
    #35
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    Well presumably theres more going on than there would at first seem.

    I dont believe its the caliper alone, its perhaps the fact that the disks are not only bigger, but thicker too, meaning they have a larger increase in thermal mass than the diameter increase alone would suggest. Or perhaps the stock pads are a more aggressive compound on the brembos.

    Theres also the fact that becasue the calipers are rigid, rather than mounted on sliders, there is less "spring" or "flex" in the whole assembly, which will give a better pedal feel and more bite, as less energy is going into bending the caliper.

    Still doesnt change the fact that for the money i'd want to be going much bigger. 345mm disks fit under 17's.


    A little update for the people interested in the ebay ad above, the guy confirmed to me that they have 34 and 30mm pistons, so as we assumed they are rear calipers and will be completely hopeless.
    #36
  38. scoobyra
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    scoobyra It's not f@cking ORANGE!!!!!

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    First one Bill
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  39. motfree
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    motfree Member

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    [Dec 30, 2010]
    anyone know what disc dia lcr calipers will take ?
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  40. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Dec 30, 2010]
    what they use as standard? or what size they can be upgraded to?

    Standard they use a 323x28mm disc.

    You can increase this to 330mm without problems, as it's a 7mm diameter increase, you'll need a 3.5mm spacer to move the calipers radially outwards. I believe Bill does a kit with discs and spacers.

    Whether 330mm is the geometric limit of the calipers I do not know.
    #39
  41. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 30, 2010]
    330's are about their design limit so far as i know yea.
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