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large capacity 1.8t engines - 1.9L, 2L and 2.1L

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by dunk, Mar 30, 2005.

  1. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    having already done the big turbo, my thirst for more torque and flexibility continues - BIG CAPACITY to add to the BIG TURBO

    there is lots of disinformation about 1.8t tuning out there so i have been doing lots of research.

    here is the basic info where your engine starts from:

    blocks - all the transverse 1.8t blocks (06B engine) are basically the same - the different engine numbers have slightly different studs on them for turbo and non-turbo versions but are the same strength despite rumours to the contrary.

    rods - some earlier engines use 20mm wrist pins on the conrods - these are probably stronger than the later 19mm pinned ones and are good for about 360-380 lb/ft

    later 19mm rods are reliable for 350-360 lb/ft

    cranks - 210 and 225 hp engines appear to use a forged crank and this is probably good for as much torque as you can get out of an engine using this stroke crank.
    other 1.8t engines seem to have a cast crank but again this seems to be OK for at least 350lb/ft so the big turbo can go on any stock 1.8t upto about 350lb/ft or 360-370hp

    heads - some early heads (not 210 or 225 and pre-vvt) have larger inlet ports - this is better for top end breathing and big hp numbers but loses low down torque and drivability - the castings are interchangable so you can put a large port head on any block and add the vvt cams from a 210 or 225 engine - this will give you more top end hp but a lot less torque (maybe 15lb/ft) off boost at the bottom end.

    valve - the standard valves seem to be safe to about 7000 to 7200rpm generally- there have been reports of dropped valves with prolonged revving (ie track racing) above 7000rpm and are quite likely to break above 8000rpm anyway
    #1
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  3. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    I heard you could not put a large port head on a s3 because of the vvt.Stock valves are not the best,especially when you've got a turbo that doesn't tail off like the k04.If i was you dunk i'd uprate pistons,con-rods and valves,overbore to 1.9 this should help with lag on larger turbos, get a turbo capable of 400bhp max then you will produce good torque and power.
    #2
  4. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    bore and stroke - how to increase capacity and what internals to use

    standard bore is 81mm and stroke is 86.4mm
    giving 1781cc

    common overbore sizes for the 1.8t are 82.5mm and 83mm - although people have used 82 it seems pointless, and 83.5mm is possible but is dangerously close to the water jacket.

    if you start with a 210 or 225 engine with a forged crank, you can overbore and keep the standard stroke resulting in:

    82.5mm 1847cc
    83mm 1870cc commonly known as 1.9L

    you could use 20mm wrist pin oem conrods, overbore pistons to match and probably be ok for 380lb/ft and 380-400hp

    increasing the stroke

    vag make a 92.8mm crank for the 2l engines and a 95.5mm crank for the 1.9D

    the 1.9D 95.5mm crank is forged.

    82.5mm bore x 92.8 stroke = 1984cc (2L)
    83mm bore x 92.8 stroke = 2008cc (2L)
    82.5mm bore x 95.5 stroke = 2042cc
    83mm bore x 95.5 stroke = 2067 (2.1L)

    with longer strokes you are likely to make big torque and hp so need forged conrods, a forged crank (such as the oem 1.9D one) and overbore pistons to match.

    its also worth uprating the main bearing and conrod bolts - some people replace the head bolts with studs but some have suggested that this isnt necessary.

    compression ratio - the 210 and 225 run 9:1 to give better off-boost. you could lower it very slightly to allow higher boost pressures, but this will result in a very steep torque curve which makes the car more difficult to drive on the road - i would suggest sticking near to the 9:1
    #3
  5. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    Ryan,

    Speak to Wilko(GolfTTish) as i believe he has an AGU head running VVT on a 2001 1.8T

    RIch
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  6. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    Dunk,

    Great post with lots of useful info. Keep it coming!

    Rich /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #5
  7. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    yes you can put the big port head on a 210 or 225 engine - you just have to move over the whole vvt cam assembly. - its only the inlet ports that are larger, but you will need to grind the s3/tt inlet manifold to suit - the matching inlet manifold has a right side throttle body because it came from a single intercooler car.
    #6
  8. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    kits and availability

    there are a few kits available from the USA complete with forged pistons rods and crank for about $2500. before other costs

    you can get the parts here in the UK but it isnt as easy.

    jabba will do the 1.9 bored conversion from stock but dont seem to offer the stroked versions.

    others order the parts in to order

    2L conversions seem to run 380 or more lb/ft and between 380 and 420hp depending if you use a large port head etc.

    2.1L conversions presumably offer more torque and maybe 400+hp, but i presume they have more off-boost torque but dont rev quite so easily so may produce less top end power.
    #7
  9. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    Thanks for the info dunk,most helpful.What would happen if i used a dahlback inlet manifold?This won't happen for a bit,i'll probably just port my s3 head when i fit uprated valves.
    #8
  10. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 30, 2005]
    drivetrain - gearbox etc

    the haldex is fine with big turbo conversions - 350 lb/ft or so.

    upto 410lb/ft or so the haldex is better with an oil cooler particulary for track work but isnt going to break for short bursts on the road such as overtaking - this is all sportec do for their 550nm conversion

    the gearbox again seems to be ok at 410lb/ft - sportec leave it standard at 550nm.

    ps dont forget to get some bigger brakes and decent suspension....
    #9
  11. clived
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    clived New Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    (slightly OT) - Dunc, your IM box is full - and I was such a information packed IM I wrote you too! ;-)
    #10
  12. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    GolfTTish
    I am having problems with the Secondary Air intake on mine as the FMIC is in the way i had to relocate it lower down.
    Does the car defo need to have this secondary intake or can i just remove it?
    Thanks
    #11
  13. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    It doesn't need it, but will throw an error code when you unplug the pump.
    Something to do with emission control.
    #12
  14. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    I agree with the injector comments but good tuning should sort out any idle problems.
    dahlback inlet manifold,not been tested but the gains will be higher up the range thats for sure.
    Not so sure on the fmic at 330-360bhp,the stock intercoolers heat soak pretty quick,especially as there tucked behind those fog lights.
    Water Injection is mainly used as a preventative measure against detonation,this in turn means you can run more timing and boost and therefore power,i strongly reccommend this for high boost applications.
    #13
  15. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    part of my original post was the fact that there are lots of opinion out there but very little fact - fact is that the 345hp mtm conversion drives very nicely on the road with stock intercoolers, and mtm dont recommend upgrade.

    fine in theory it could do with a large fmic, but thats not apparent on the road.

    for someone thinking about a big turbo i would say if they start with s3 or tt and twin intercoolers then dont worry about a fmic unless they want to - its not necessary unless you are going to do track stuff.

    if you start with 1 intercooler then perhaps its a good idea...
    #14
  16. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2005]
    I see dunc has posted that mtm guy reccommends a fmic with the 330bhp kit.
    #15
  17. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    no they dont recommend an fmic with the 330/345 kit
    #16
  18. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    Dunk,

    What sort of boost are you running? Must be pretty high with that turbo?
    #17
  19. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    no they dont recommend an fmic with the 330/345 kit

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, I wouldnt take what Audi Driver says as totally correct (but it does say that)

    Dunc
    #18
  20. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    Good point rich,what sort of boost does the mtm kit run?
    #19
  21. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    About 25 psi according to CliveD who has it on his TTR - which is about 1.5 bar?

    Dunc
    #20
  22. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    vag-com says 1.5 bar on mine too at peak torque
    #21
  23. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    The Sportec kit used a K26...It runs around the 310-320 mark but higher boost... I wonder what differs between that and the MTM kit.

    Rich
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  24. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    25psi=1.724bar
    1.5bar=21.75psi
    By the way the most vag-com can read with the stock sensor and ecu on a s3 is 1.54bar,do you ever get it flatlining dunk?This means you are over 1.54bar.
    #23
  25. clived
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    clived New Member

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    [Apr 1, 2005]
    Yep, 25 and a smidge, so I'd say 1.75 perhaps max.
    #24
  26. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Apr 2, 2005]
    The stock map sensor can read up to 1.8bar even though it tops out at 1.54bar on vag-com
    #25

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