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Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by beaker, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    My previous car was an A3 1.8T Sport - 150bhp turbo-charged 1.8 litre petrol engine. When I came to change my car the first car I test drove was the 150bhp 2.0 FSI version as I thought that would be the nearest equivalent to the T Sport. It was hopeless, no go at low revs at all - horrible to drive on other that A roads or motorways.

    The next car I drove was a manual 2.0TDI. This had a lot more go especially for overtaking and in country lanes etc but required much more gear-changing than than I was used to with 1.8T petrol engine and the actual gear change was no better. OK but not wonderfull.

    The next car to be tested was a 2.0TDI but with the DSG gearbox. This had all the go of the 2.0TDI, still required a lot of gearchanging but the actual gear-changing using the 'manual' mode was so much more pleasant that having to keep using the manual clutch. A quick press on the central lever or click of the paddles. It brought a whole new level of sophistication to gear-changing without taking away any of the enjoyment of driving. Long journeys became so relaxed and short trips through the lanes even more fun. Power assisted gear-changing.

    Personally I found that both TDI engines behaved in the same manner and required the same amount of gear-changing but the actual gear-changing experience was so much better using the DSG than the Manual. Hence I bought the DSG version and have been perfectly happy with my choice and have never regretted it.
    #81
  2. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    I have also been in a manual version albeit as a passenger. There was also a member on here with a chipped manual that came out in mine. His comments were, that mine was definately faster than a std. manual, but not as quick as the chipped version.

    And yes I am familiar with slipping the clutch in the scenario you describe bowfer, but you can't do it with DSG. You should know that it had no clutch pedal before buying /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #82
  3. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    And yes I am familiar with slipping the clutch in the scenario you describe bowfer, but you can't do it with DSG. You should know that it had no clutch pedal before buying /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Which takes us right back to the main point of the thread... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Audi should have allowed for some in the software,not just 'lock up' the clutch as soon as the car is moving and expect the engine to pick up itself.

    It really wouldn't take big changes for me to like DSG,and I don't think anyone should claim it's faultless or perfect as it is (not that you are Japper).

    It'll be interesting to see how DSG develops over the years though.
    #83
  4. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    In connection with a clutch doesn't slip = wear. I would thought VW/Audi would have been very reluctant to introduce anything that gave extra wear of the clutches in a DSG as I should imagine they will be pretty expensive to replace.

    But as you say, it will be interesting to see if the DSG changes at all over the years.
    #84
  5. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    But as you say, it will be interesting to see if the DSG changes at all over the years.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think it's absolutely inevitable David.

    Not because they will be admitting faults,but because marketing departments will always demand 'improvements' to crow about in brochures.

    You mark my words,they will be claiming any one,or more,from the following list in the forseeable future.

    Slicker changes
    Better responses
    Improved efficiciency
    Greater service intervals
    Reduced friction

    blablabla

    Of course,they will all be carefully worded so as not to hack off existing owners,or allow me to say "HA,told you so" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #85
  6. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    I'm sure your right. Nothing stands still for long. As long as they don't change the basic operation of it I will no doubt be happy with any 'improvements' that make. Assuming I can continue to afford to buy more Audis.
    #86
  7. simonl
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    simonl Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've never slipped a clutch on the move in the said gear, seems like a real plonky way to drive to me!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh hardly...

    Slightly slipping ( or 'dipping') the clutch is a perfectly acceptable way of getting the revs up in a manual car,rather than changing down to a lower gear.

    It's especially useful in cars that need to be at certain revs to get going properly.

    For example,my Alfa 156 was gutless below 4000 revs,but flew above it,so I would often slip the clutch a wee bit to get it going.

    Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it's "plonky".

    Give it a go next time you're driving a manual car and need to accelerate that wee bit quicket,you might like it !

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I only tried it once, and all my mates just asked me what i was doing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ... My grandad used to do it in his Maxi!
    #87
  8. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    bowfer, I wonder if the 7 speed DSG in the veyron allows for slip, with all that torque /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Seriously, I thought I read that DSG does allow for a certain amount of slip, but this is probably just in 1st to allow you to pull away without stalling.
    #88
  9. miketweed
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    miketweed Member

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    But the DSG does allow slip at low revs in any gear as appropriate!! Wet clutches are fine with slippage because the oil helps cool the plates and prevent any heat damage. Thats why it is a wet multiplate clutch because it is designed to control slip under power. A manual single plate clutch is not designed to control any slippage under power except in first gear when the torque-resistance from the wheels is greatly reduced. Slipping it in second etc is a sure way to a warped clutch.

    eg: In my DSG If I am in second and slow down so the rpm falls to say, 1000rpm, the clutch starts to disengage at below 2000rpm so if I apply any throttle the revs will rise to 2000-2500 via controlled clutch slippage giving brisk acceleration.

    When the car catches up the clutches will proceed to lock up. The harder you accelerate during the slip period, the harder the clutch bites to control the slip.

    This is the benefit of the computer controlled clutch as compared to a torque convertor. It gives the low down slippage, but intelligently locks as appropriate up to prevent energy sapping slippage elsewhere in the rev range. (a torque convertor slips all the time)

    And to those that say "the DSG changes gear when I don't want it to" Thats rubbish. It only changes gear when YOUR driving means it has to. i.e. more or less throttle, revs high or low, etc.

    These are all 100% down to the driver and the 'box reacts to them in a defined way.
    #89
  10. imported_S_Line
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    imported_S_Line Guest

    Any Turbo car will provide lag, its how it is.
    The turbo cant be at full boost at tick over waiting for instant take off.

    Only thing can be done is to remap with a higher idle, but this may not work with the DSG box as it will want to move forward quicker when in gear.

    And yes the DSG has caught me out a few times, IN D and in Manual

    City driving is the worst, its easy to catch the box out when changing 1st, 2nd 3rd, it thinks you are wanting 4th but i want to change back to 2 nd to get past a few city cars.

    Tum tee tum tum what seems like ever, the gearbox selects 2nd simple because it thought i was going to change to 4th so was pre selected it.
    So yes its caught me out a few times.

    But its just my driving style that catches it out on many occasions.
    #90
  11. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    And to those that say "the DSG changes gear when I don't want it to" Thats rubbish. It only changes gear when YOUR driving means it has to. i.e. more or less throttle, revs high or low, etc

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry,but that's rubbish.

    My DSG changes up,even in manual mode,at around 4000rpm(ish).

    I really DO NOT want it to change up that point.

    The car doesn't HAVE to change up at that point.

    The proper manual doesn't,so how can you say the car "has" to change up at that point ?

    My car is still pulling very strongly when it changes up and I object to the fact I'm being 'robbed' of however many revs compared with the driver of a proper manual.

    Those extra revs may mean it picks up quicker in the next gear,or I don't have to change gear at all (say on a short straight).

    It's not a level playing field.

    The proper manual lets you rev it to your hearts' content,but the DSG doesn't.

    Why ?

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif
    #91
  12. simonl
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    simonl Member

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    sounds like you've got a dodgy one mate.
    mine lets me rev way into the red line! (albiet a petrol) in fact it's never changed up of it's own accord, and i have thrashed the pants off the little fecker. Why don't you take it to a stealer and compare like for like to see if it's faulty.
    #92
  13. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    sounds like you've got a dodgy one mate.
    mine lets me rev way into the red line! (albiet a petrol) in fact it's never changed up of it's own accord, and i have thrashed the pants off the little fecker. Why don't you take it to a stealer and compare like for like to see if it's faulty.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's not faulty.
    All Tdi DSG's change up for you,in any mode,around the 4000(ish) mark.

    In fact,I'm sure all DSG audi's should do it,diesel or petrol,so perhaps it's yours that is faulty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #93
  14. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    No the remap doesn't give the car a higher idle speed, but it does take up the slack far better as there's much more torque lower down the rev range.

    The only time it catches me out is if I go into a corner too quickly and scrub speed off on the way through, then it's best to downchange before the bend and be in the right gear for the exit. Exactly as you would with a manual.
    #94
  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The proper manual lets you rev it to your hearts' content,but the DSG doesn't.

    Why ?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because it's NOT a manual and is not intended to be !

    Audi already make a 'proper' manual if anyone whats one. It's the standard fitting on all A3s. DSG is an optional extra for those who do not want a 'proper' manual.
    #95
  16. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    The proper manual lets you rev it to your hearts' content,but the DSG doesn't.

    Why ?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because it's NOT a manual and is not intended to be !

    Audi already make a 'proper' manual if anyone whats one. It's the standard fitting on all A3s. DSG is an optional extra for those who do not want a 'proper' manual.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We could go round in circles about this for hours David.

    I would accept an auto change-up in D or S mode.

    I accept they are 'auto' modes.

    I will never agree that it should change up for you in manual mode,as it makes manual a complete misnomer.

    We'll just have to leave it at that.
    #96
  17. cosmicblue
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    [ QUOTE ]
    My DSG changes up,even in manual mode,at around 4000rpm(ish).

    [/ QUOTE ]


    My 06 MY TDi DSG howls round to the red line (infact a smidgen beyond it) in S mode before changing up.

    It always has done that even pre-remap.

    I suspect that Audi have changed something then...........
    #97
  18. simonl
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    simonl Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    sounds like you've got a dodgy one mate.
    mine lets me rev way into the red line! (albiet a petrol) in fact it's never changed up of it's own accord, and i have thrashed the pants off the little fecker. Why don't you take it to a stealer and compare like for like to see if it's faulty.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's not faulty.
    All Tdi DSG's change up for you,in any mode,around the 4000(ish) mark.

    In fact,I'm sure all DSG audi's should do it,diesel or petrol,so perhaps it's yours that is faulty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So let me get this straight.
    Your frustrated that your manual mode doesn't rev high enough and give you access to the 'full' extent of the rev range.
    ...yet your not willing to accept that a 4k rpm upchange in manual mode is a little strange and possibly faulty! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif you think they're all like this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    I have 40 or so people on a large GTI forum that i speak to daily, most with DSG. No one, not one has ever had a problem with their DSG's changing up automatically at 4k rpm, not even close.
    In fact it's so high in the red, some (including myself) have yet to experience this, even on a track.

    I think you just want to come on here and winge your ass of all day. Take your car back to the dealers and get it looked at, for fecks sake! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #98
  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My DSG changes up,even in manual mode,at around 4000rpm(ish).

    [/ QUOTE ]


    My 06 MY TDi DSG howls round to the red line (infact a smidgen beyond it) in S mode before changing up.

    It always has done that even pre-remap.

    I suspect that Audi have changed something then...........

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The revs I quoted were only rough,as my car's not here for me to check the rev counter.

    For me to check the rev counter would digging it out of the snow,and I can't be bothered.

    It can sit there until the thaw.
    #99
  20. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    sounds like you've got a dodgy one mate.
    mine lets me rev way into the red line! (albiet a petrol) in fact it's never changed up of it's own accord, and i have thrashed the pants off the little fecker. Why don't you take it to a stealer and compare like for like to see if it's faulty.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's not faulty.
    All Tdi DSG's change up for you,in any mode,around the 4000(ish) mark.

    In fact,I'm sure all DSG audi's should do it,diesel or petrol,so perhaps it's yours that is faulty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So let me get this straight.
    Your frustrated that your manual mode doesn't rev high enough and give you access to the 'full' extent of the rev range.
    ...yet your not willing to accept that a 4k rpm upchange in manual mode is a little strange and possibly faulty! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif you think they're all like this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    I have 40 or so people on a large GTI forum that i speak to daily, most with DSG. No one, not one has ever had a problem with their DSG's changing up automatically at 4k rpm, not even close.
    In fact it's so high in the red, some (including myself) have yet to experience this, even on a track.

    I think you just want to come on here and winge your ass of all day. Take your car back to the dealers and get it looked at, for fecks sake! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ferchrissakes LeMan,I wouldn't expect a bleeding Gti to change up at the same revs as a Tdi...

    Sheesh... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
  21. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    The DSG as fitted to the A3 was DESIGNED to change up at around maximum revs and down a minimum revs for each gear. It always has from Day 1 and hopefully it always will. A lot of fully automatic gearboxes have the ability to manually select particular gears, within the limits of the gearbox. The DSG is no different in that sense.

    If you want full 'manual' control buy a manual - if you want automatic up and down shifts and all the other benefits, buy a DSG.

    It's that simple. The choice is there.
  22. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    Ding Ding...



    Round 1,000,000...



    Ready...
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
  23. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    As BT once said in one of their adverts....

    It's nice to talk !
  24. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    ZzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Have we moved on yet?

    No?

    ZZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzz
  25. HuntsA4
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    HuntsA4 Member

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    Bowfer, you need to change that car, For your health sake if no other.

    Stress kills!!
  26. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ZzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Have we moved on yet?

    No?

    ZZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzz

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I want to move on.
    But there's a lag. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
  27. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I want to move on.
    But there's a lag. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
  28. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    Now THAT was funny!!!

    Even out of the most BORING debates, little pearls of humour emerge......

    Are you guys still going for the longest thread record?
  29. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ZzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Have we moved on yet?

    No?

    ZZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzz

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I want to move on.
    But there's a lag. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    Is that with you or the A3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
  30. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    Yes I agree - perhaps 'marriedblonde' in his new role as moderator would like to declare this thread closed and stop any further access.

    We all accept that Bowfer is driving the wrong car and I am driving the right car (at least for me) complete with it's DSG.

    If anyone is that bothered they can always start another one !

    Perhaps a new thread about which is the best type of engine - Petrol or Diesel - then perhaps not.
  31. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    Locking the thread is an option but it is catch 22, some have had enough of the content others haven't. If I lock the thread then I am being trigger happy in my new position and if someone else did it I would probably bitch and moan. Freedom of speach and all that.

    It is obvious for all to see who likes DSG and who doesn't but apart from one comment it is all good humoured. Until that changes I say leave it open.

    There's valid point's being made, ok not really relevant to the original post, from both camps.
  32. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    Good points marriedblonde, I'm personally quite happy either way. I'm sure we will find plenty more to say !
  33. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    Let's go for the record!!!
  34. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    What is the highest number of replies so far on the 8P forum.... I'm sure we can beat that !
  35. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    The gti versus A3 thread got to a fair old number of pages befroe being removed...

    Lets just keep the conduct becoming of a gentleman though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (and Lady if MissM decides to join in)

    J.
  36. imported_S_Line
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    imported_S_Line Guest

    Can someone explain where the 4000 RPM mark is on a Oil Burner ? is it into the RED or well before it.

    I thought this thread was about Turbo Lag anyway. ?

    Turbo Cars have lag
    Non Turbo Car Dont /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
  37. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    The red-line starts at 4400rpm on my 2.0TDI. The maximum power of 103kW is produced at 4000rpm and the maximum torque 320Nm at 1750-2500rpm.

    From those figures you will see there is little point in reving the engine much past 4000rpm.

    Diesel cars tend to use Turbos and give around 45-50mpg
    Petrol cars sometimes use Turbos and sometimes don't and give around 20-25mpg
  38. simonl
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    simonl Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Petrol cars sometimes use Turbos and sometimes don't and give around 20-25mpg

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My god dave, your wisdom blows me away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
  39. simonl
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    simonl Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    The gti versus A3 thread got to a fair old number of pages befroe being removed...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    why was it removed! seemed healthy to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
  40. miketweed
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    miketweed Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Petrol cars sometimes use Turbos and sometimes don't and give around 20-25mpg

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is surely the most generically unspecific and uninformative quote i've read on this forum :)

    Maybe "Petrol cars run on Petrol" would have been more useful?

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