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ko4..... hybrid or.... BT.....MY THOUGHTS.....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by s3dave, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Sep 30, 2010]
    This will proberbly upset some people but so what................

    There seems to be a fashion on here to have a turbo that the standard s3 does not have.

    In my sig i have a hybrid turbo, and i am getting very tired of the pm,s i am getting asking how much and can i break down the costs with everything done?

    why dont they ask the guys who are doing it at present?

    Because although they are doing the threads they are not reveiling the real time costs, (although welly will sell you is sole...lol)witch is there poragative, so they pm me who is not so much in the limelight............................ and fill my inbox.......:no:

    So what i am saying is tell the guys HOW IT IS, like rods £330-£380 .......fitting from £400-600
    so looking at around 1k....not looking so might as well now.......
    quote "for the price of rods its worth doing" ....£300 ish ...............NOT a diy job..

    Countless times people have asked tufty how much, and got 0 response.....why...because he proberbly will scare his self if he added it up........:ohmy:

    All i am saying at the end of the day is why not tell the guys what it costs all in :

    i will have a guess from my reciepts....

    hybrid from totally standard including everything(brakes,sussy etc, inc LABOUR........including custom map....£8000
    BT £9050-£11000 GT 30 -35

    This price may shock some people but i have reciepts for a job half done for 4k on a hybrid....

    And get this ...come to sell it you will get fook all back off that!!..:noway:

    the s3,s pinnacle is not a big turbo or hybrid, it is a car to be enjoyed what it is, some people like modding, some like it standard, its definatley not a better car with a modded turbo,(although a lot faster) and without doubt a standard low miler will be worth more than the 7k plus modded one... to joe public....

    This in no way, disses the guys who have spent all the time with, how tos/build threads etc and i think its amazing how they find time for a snap with the cam, even when things go ....not so well...they are the ******,,,,.... and admire there constant devotion,

    when people know the real costs they just might sell up and buy an s4......:ohmy:

    As im sure, some would have never been started Knowing the final bill.....:ermm:

    everthing IMO of course.....:laugh:
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  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 30, 2010]
    I don't actually know how much I have spent in total.... I am not particularly worried about how much I have spent as I have been the same with any of my hobbies...

    Obviously one advantage is that I can do pretty much all the work myself (I can't weld though) so labour charges aren't really an issue.... labour is normally the killer on these projects... parts are relatively easy to price up...

    I paid £7.5k for my car and I have easily spent best part of that again on the mods (inc suspension, brake and of course the BT conversion)... I have spent £1200 alone on mapping (includes stage 1 and mapping for the BT)...

    I agree that for most people the sort of money I have spent would be a bitter pill to swallow and most people would just rather be looking for a faster car for their money rather than spend it on making an existing one faster... for me though its more than just a fast car, I enjoy working on the car and get a buzz out of the work I do on her.... I love my S3 and very much doubt I will be getting rid of her so for me its not really an issue spending money on her...

    If I was honest, the real reason I don't openly discuss what I have spent is I am more worried about my missus finding out what I have spent and going mental!!!

    <tuffty/>
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  4. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Sep 30, 2010]
    much respect to you two! and the others who have put the time, money and effort into doing projects like these, not just big turbo's, and openly putting on the forums for all to view, through your hard work we are able to understand our cars and tuning in general, inspiring our hobbies.

    I, and alot of people on this forum, wouldn't have the cheek to ask how much it costs, and realise that cost is just a small part of these projects, and the work YOU put in means so much more.

    Its a shame that people are only interested in numbers, be it horsepower, or money spent. because the work and engineering is what its all about. For me anyway
    #3
  5. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Sep 30, 2010]
    RESPECT....

    Actually it is for these guys who find a cheap garret on ebay and think it will bolt on, or get a hybrid with no other mods and think ive got the IC no probs, there are so many untold expenses even down to the odd bit of fabrication that will soar prices up that even you may have forgot about,
    Nobody works for nothing, if you can do work on the car yourself, it is going to reduce the cost considerably,
    people come come into my place daily asking for a bit of scrap stainless, you give them it, (thats the guy i am...lol) then they ask can you put a little bend in it..........so then i charge around £1 a second........
    why not ask for a 90 degree bend in some scrap stainless,......lol... then get it for next to nothing,
    #4
  6. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 30, 2010]
    GT2860 ftw
    #5
  7. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    people need to make informed decisions .....no disrespect but how much would you put a hybrid to with all the trimmings?

    by the way your quote "you mention your clutch, is it standard? are you concerned it will last ten minutes. but then i suppose its how you drive. "... you need to read posts more carefully.....lol this is the detail you should not be missing as it is not cheap......
    #6
  8. S3 Andy
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    S3 Andy Member

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I can give you a great breakdown on a hybrid build...

    Parts all are + vat unless stated:

    Engine rebuild by backdraft (uprated rods, honed bores, new bearings etc) - £1295
    Head from backdraft - £495
    Backdraft hybrid k04 - 795 exchange
    Dual mass flywheel +sachs organic + release bearing - £1100
    Pipewerx DP with sports cat + dogbone mount - £510 (no vat as bought off ebay)
    Miltek catback resonated - £479
    forge 007p - £70
    Forge TIP - £108
    Mapping - £450
    Brembo GT junior kit - £1000 (special offer fitted price)
    KW adjustable tie bars + KW springs + shocks - £635
    H+R ARBS - £275

    2-3 pages of various parts like turbo oil feed - £92, Aux waterpump £94, oil pump, £107, 4 coil packs £110, Cam chain tensioner £110, steering rack £550 etc... not going to bother breaking that down but it adds up quickly to circa £3000.

    44 hours labour £2500.


    Still need to get a forge fmic + some tweaks to the map before I'm finished ... It's on lowish boost for the first 2k miles anyway..(apart from maybe a baffeled sump and JBS' mystical K04 mani if they ever bother making it.... Here we go again lol also tempted by WMI arrrgh)


    The reason I went down this route was a cracked piston ring and knackered turbo. I can't comment on the difference between stage 1 map and big turbo cars as I've never driven or been in either, but I'm more than happy with mine and cannot believe it's the same car I dropped off at the garage :) ! Hopefully time will show it to be as reliable as it is quick and my decision to do this instead of buying an M3 on 60k miles will be the right one :)

    I'll let you add it up and I'm sure some will see this as expensive because of already having/not factoring in brakes, suspension, rods, other parts that you might aswell do while your in there, exhaust etc... But IMO this is what you can expect to pay to get there from a standard + tired 90k mile car, unless your as handy as the like of Welly, Tuffty or Badger - having said that they just go for a bigger spec and end up spending more:laugh:.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
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  9. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    by the way your quote "you mention your clutch, is it standard? are you concerned it will last ten minutes. but then i suppose its how you drive. "... you need to read posts more carefully.....lol this is the detail you should not be missing as it is not cheap......[/QUOTE]

    yes i realised shortly after. theres so much info to digest
    #8
  10. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    [​IMG]


    Value for money on these projects make no sense:detective2:
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
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  11. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    ^^^^^^What did you read it for then?^^^^^^
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  12. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I value your thoughts so I wanted to know what you had to say [​IMG]
    #11
  13. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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  14. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    just messing about Steve :)
    #13
  15. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    :)
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  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    your prices are on the high side.. Is this for show?
    #15
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    ... My ibiza. bought new in Sept 2001 as my first and only ever brand new car.
    today, its a full out racecar some 9 years later.
    on its was it was Oettinger remapped, the went IHI as Jabba's sister development car, then went 1900cc, big port "built" engine on a hybrid PE1820, then a bespoke tubular top mount manifold and FP Green turbo, then FP red turbo, then GT35 turbo on yet another manifold, shed its Me7 ecu and factory wiring and went DTA S60 unit..

    why?
    its cost many £1000's evolving - I dont know how much but its £10's of £1000's over the 9 years

    Because its a hobby, and a business, and a development tool for me these past years.

    Anyone who just does the sums and says, you could have bought an S4 or whatever just does'nt get it at all
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  18. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I am not going to bother putting up prices for any of the following as tbh they have and will continue to change plus you can do the research yourselves should you wish to use it as a shopping list....

    Here is a list of the current configuration of 'mods' I have made to my car since buying it in October 2008... it was completely std when I got her... this does not include some of the early stuff like DS2500's for the std brakes, Eibach Pro springs thsat I later changed to Apex and the original stage 1 maps etc...

    Bilstein B8 dampers
    Apex -30mm springs
    KW Tie-bars
    Powerflex front wishbone bushes
    AP Racing 4 pot calipers
    Badger 5 caliper brackets
    Badger 5 330mm 2-piece brake disks
    Ferodo DS2500 brake pads
    Braided front brake hoses
    Motul RBF 660 brake fluid
    15mm spacers rear, 10mm spacers front
    AH Fabs FMIC (modified for 60mm pipework)
    Custom 60mm charge pipework
    Silicon charge pipe hoses and joiners

    AEB large port head
    Supertech single groove inlet valves
    Supertech single groove Inconel exhaust valves
    Supertech valve springs and titanium retainers
    Integrated Engineering rods
    630cc Siemens injectors
    GT3071r T25 flanged, 0.63 A/R hotside, internal gate (modded compact version)
    Custom turbo oil feed pipe
    Custom turbo water pipes
    PAG Parts cast T25 log manifold
    Badger 5 custom 3&#8221; down pipe
    Custom 3&#8221; TIP and modded OEM Air Box with 4&#8221; CAI ducting
    Forge Supersize DV
    Forge UNOS manual boost controller
    R32 throttle body
    Modded OEM inlet manifold ported and adapted to use R32 TB
    Badger 5 Phenolic Gasket for the inlet manifold
    355lph inline fuel pump with Badger 5 OEM adapters
    Ibiza fuel filter custom mounted
    Green Cotton panel filter
    3&#8221; custom exhaust system with a Milltek S3 back box
    Simplified PCV and vacuum system
    Badger 5 Edition custom mapping
    LuK dual mass flywheel
    LuK S3 cover plate
    Sachs motorsport 4 puck paddle clutch plate
    LuK concentric slave/release bearing

    Liquid Diagnostics Gauge in drivers vent
    Stack Boost Gauge in pillar pod
    OEM RSTT 18x8 ET33 wheels
    Stereo system including an Andy Mac Stealth Sub
    Cruise Control (wasn&#8217;t fitted when I bought the car)

    This doesn't cover things like gaskets, bolts, fabrication sundries etc that went into the 'development' of my car but should give you an idea of what setup my car is at and from this an idea of the potential costs involved... doesn't include services and other stuff I have done like replacing worn rear discs and other items that just wear out

    <tuffty/>
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  19. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    Including labour?? not at all,,, this includes being able to stop the fooker and make it go round corners.

    All i am saying is you cant just bolt an aftermarket turbo on and think happy days....
    #18
  20. S3 D2HTY
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    S3 D2HTY Member

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    Yes could of brought a S4 but youd be like all S4 drives. Where as Bills got a 1 off ibiza i mean look at it :O BEAST.
    #19
  21. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I thought you were describing engine/turbo work alone?

    you suggesting this is handling and braking mods too?

    I dont get where you are going tho in the context of the post.... hybrid or BT, aint handling and brakes is it

    ;)

    As for S4's, the bi-turbo's are very slow beasts.. I would luv the V8 tho :D but then again I like my V8's anyhows..
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
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  22. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I think what he is saying Bill is that yes you can slap a big turbo on but to be safe you have to do suspension brakes etc not just bolt a GT35 on and it will be fine. Dave this made me laugh as in the past few days i have also had those same PM's
    #21
  23. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    Correct....lol
    #22
  24. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 1, 2010]
    I used to till i removed my sig...HE he he he
    #23
  25. VeVeX
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    VeVeX Member

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    [Oct 2, 2010]
    Exactly! If your so very tired of getting PM's regarding your car lose the ridiculous cock measuring signature.
    #24
  26. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 2, 2010]
    Spot on Mark, the amount of PM's I got when I had my detailed sig with all my mods, much more peaceful with my pic sigs. :)
    #25
  27. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Oct 2, 2010]
    whooo keep your fookin nickers on!!
    #26
  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 3, 2010]
    LOL

    Anyway, I have posted a complete price breakdown and analysis of what my hybrid is costing me on my thread, but for those interested it is also here: http://www.thewellings.co.uk/audi-sport/hybrid/K04-Hybrid-Breakdown.pdf

    This does not include rods, downpipe etc as I have already paid out for these, hence a breakdown of what it is costing me...lol.

    Once my hybrid project is finished, I will do a breakdown on a similar scale, including rods and downpipe etc for those who have a standard S3 and are looking to upgrade...

    I always try my best to make my build threads as informative as possible, by doing things like cost breakdowns, as this helps everyone in the long run. Plus my missus knows how much I've spent (well, nearly...) so I am not that fussed about posting it.... lol.
    #27

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