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Karls 3.0 TDI build thread

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B8 Chassis)' started by desertstorm, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. viceroy
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    viceroy Member

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    Very impressive runs mate.
    With tiptronic in mine I can only hope to get low 14s or maybe just touch high 13s
  2. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest i also found my old tuned a6 about 80-90% of the s4 b6 performance with a good blend between performance and economy and none of the drawbacks, however diesels are a little boring to drive unless you have 550-600 Nm of torque to play with ! Well done with that mate...
  3. Audi.Quattro
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    Audi.Quattro Member

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    Great info, it makes me want to map my 245, what is your 0-60 time now?
  4. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    This is from a previous post.

    Manual diesels not so good 0-60 as you can't do 60 in second as you can in most petrols so you need 2 gear changes but I would say it's some where in the low 5's 5.3 -5.4s if you get it right. Car isn't a lightweight it does weigh 1800Kg. A car with a DSG box would be a little quicker but I am not sure how it would handle 720Nm of torque.
  5. viceroy
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    viceroy Member

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    The tiptronics are no different and require a change to 3rd :(
  6. viceroy
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    viceroy Member

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    Karl,
    Have you done any logging after the remap.
    What boost are you running?

    Thanks
    v
  7. BrennanTDi
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    BrennanTDi Events Moderator

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    Great results you got there :)
  8. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Thanks,
    Car is running around 1.75 bar of boost at 3K RPM dropping off to 1.6 bar at 4K RPM.The standard map runs 1.4-1.45 bar boost.
  9. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    With some time off work and between the rain showers got around to fitting the exhaust cutout kit that I bought from sunny China.

    2.5 INCH EXHAUST CUTOUT REMOTE CONTROL ELECTRIC DUMP Y PIPE CATBACK CAT BACK TURBO BYPASS STEELE-in Complete Installations from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com

    These are available on E-bay but they are more expensive.

    2.5"/63mm ELECTRIC EXHAUST CATBACK/DOWNPIPE CUTOUT/E-CUT OUT VALVE SYSTEM KIT | eBay

    Unfortunately had to pay import tax on the one from China but still worked out about £90 instead of £123

    I chose a 2.5 inch kit as I have some 2.5 inch stainless pipe from when I was modding the Passat. Also the standard exhaust on the Audi is 65mm or just over 2.5 inch.
    I knew the pipe supplied wasn't going to fit so I was going to have to do some welding and fettling.

    The quality of the components looked reasonable, the valve looked quite well made, some of the welding quality was slightly suspicious but better than my welding .

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    location for the valve was here, plenty of space for the actuator and protecting it from some of the elements. Also the exhaust would be a little cooler here so will probably help reliability.

    [​IMG]

    After some measuring, tweeking, cutting, welding, angle grinding, fileing etc ended up with this.

    [​IMG]

    Here a close up of the cutout in action. Click on the picture to play the video

    [​IMG]

    And some revving of the engine whilst the valve is opened and closed, click on the picture to play the video.

    [​IMG]

    Located remote in the boot area for the moment.Currently plugged into the boot 12v socket, will hardwire it shortly.

    [​IMG]

    It's not as load as a full supersprint exhaust but I think it makes quite a nice noise now. Click the button and return to the sensible quiet exhaust, click again for hooligan mode .
    Need to do some logging of exhaust back pressure just to see if it's making any great difference, it feels like the turbo is picking up a little quicker but that is the kind of effect I would expect.

    Karl.
  10. Jamie-S
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    Jamie-S Member

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    Never seen one of them before, weird little gizmo
  11. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Took some arty pictures of the car at the Weston Park Dubmania meeting last weekend, Taking advantage of the nice weather and the backdrop of trees and the fact the car was clean.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Karl.
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  12. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Tweaked the suspension a bit yesterday by fitting the S-line Rear anti rol bar. This is the same as fitted to the S4/ S5 performance models. The SE standard one on mine is 19.7mm the thicker one 21.6mm .
    Cheap enough off Ebay for £40.
    Only 1.9mm thicker but with anti roll bars the roll resistance is equal to the diameter ^4.
    So 19.7*19.7*19.7*19.7 = 150614
    and 21.6 * 21.6* 21.6 * 21.6= 217678 217678 / 150613 = 1.45 so nearly 1.5 times stiffer.

    [​IMG]

    seems to have improved turn in a bit and reduced understeer which is what it's supposed to do.

    Karl.
  13. kanecullen89
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    kanecullen89 Member

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    Hmm I was thinking of doing a similar mod on mine. Mine is also the SE but has the ADS adjustable dampers which specs the sport springs. Any idea what ARB mine would have Karl?

    Kane
  14. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    You probably already have the thicker bar. The option code for suspension on my car is 1BA and is the only one listed with the 19.7mm bar.
    If you have 1BD , 1BE or 1BL then you will have the thicker bar.
  15. kanecullen89
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    kanecullen89 Member

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    Ah I have 1BL. Cheers mate

    Kane
  16. Montecha
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    Montecha New Member

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    The exhaust mod has me thinking of a Milltek Valvesonic system that I read about a long time ago. Did It ever happen?

    Now I'm the wrong side of 50 there still a part of me that would like the noise for say 30 minutes a week, and the ability to flick a switch would be mega cool.

    I've seen some valved S4 systems that were an arm and a leg. Anyone found an off the shelf solution for the 3.0 tdi?
  17. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    With GTI International just around the corner next weekend been working on extracting a bit more out of the car. Fancied having a go with Water Methanol, works quite well on diesels apparently and not that hard to install and prices are quite reasonable for some of the kits.
    Bought a Cooling Mist kit off Fleabay, some 6mm plastic fittings that the kit didn't come with, an in line filter and a 3Ltr Kart fuel tank to put the water / Methanol mix in.This basic kit comes with a pressure switch that I have teed into the boost pressure gauge pipe to actuate the pump. It's adjustable from 1-25 PSI. I couldn't see the point of buying a more advanced proportional controller as when the car is on boost it very rapidly builds up to 25-26 PSI, I intend setting the trigger point around 12-15 PSI.
    This kit came with a solenoid to stop any kind of siphoning in the system and these work a lot better than the check valves that some systems seem to use.

    The main bits of the install

    [​IMG]

    With the 3 litre tank located in the plenum chamber with the filter, this is covered with a plastic cover so looks standard when looking under the bonnet.

    [​IMG]

    Some people just use the washer bottle as a reservoir but squirting 50/50 water methanol all over the car seems a waste, so decided to keep them separate.

    Mounted the pump under the headlight on the passenger side. Plenty of room there and close to where I am going to mount the injector at the outlet of the FMIC.

    [​IMG]

    With the base of the headlight refitted which the headlight mounts into you can see little of the pump install.With the light refitted and the front bumper back on you cannot see any of the pump install. However removing the passenger side foglight trim allows you to get at the nozzle easily to check / change it without removing the bumper.

    [​IMG]

    Bought some Methanol off Fleabay

    [​IMG]

    Bought in bulk 25L, worked out better with the postage costs,

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully doing some logging runs this weekend and some tweaking of the activation pressure. Kit came with the wrong nozzle originally which would have put way too much water / meth in, taken some time to get the replacement. Hopefully it stops dry for GTI International next week, currently forecasting showers.
    British GP weekend as well so a bit of rain might make that more interesting.Hopefully will provide an improvement in power and associated reduction in intake and EGT temperatures.

    Karl.
  18. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    I still think a water methanol injection is a band aid, and highlights a not efficient enough turbocharger IF you have increased EGT... However the gtb2260vk should be fine with 2 Bars of boost or 1.8 sustained without the EGT going sky high... I run my gtb2260vk with titanium compressor wheel at 2.5 Bar without detrimental issue, so far so good !
  19. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    I do agree a bit that water meth can help a car if the turbo is a little small or is being over worked but it's also useful if your intercooler isn't up to the job or in general to help the engine temperatures and performance.
    I did some data logging at GTI international this weekend.
    Starting with an intake temp of 25 degrees with no methanol by the time I got to the end of the run the intake temps had risen to 36 degrees and EGT to around 850 degrees. With the methanol switched on at the next run the intake temps were 25 degrees again at the start, by the time i had got to 60mph they had dropped to 23 and then slowly increased to 28 degrees and the EGT temps peaked at around 810 degrees.
    So the water meth does what it says, The intercooler on my car is a good size but you can't get a big enough intercooler in or the EGT temps do get too high then water meth might help.

    Karl.
  20. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Well took the car to GTI International on Saturday at the Shakespeare Raceway. A good day out looking at some very nice, expensive cars and running up the quarter mile after it had stopped raining in the morning.
    Did 11 runs in all and managed a new quickest time just beating the one I set at Santa Pod. I don't think the track surface there gives the same grip as at Santa Pod as I couldn't get the 60ft times I managed at Santa Pod,The fact I miscalculated the fuel and had over half a tank didn't help, the Methanol helped I think probably good for a tenth of a second.
    The fastest run a 13.35 seconds at 104.8 mph.

    [​IMG]

    Had 2 runs up against a 2007 Manual Audi S5, 4.2 V8 with 350bhp and supposed to be around 4.9s 0-60.

    [​IMG]

    Click on the picture below to play the video, bit boring as you don't see anything of the S5, the same in most of the videos as I just left the other cars at the line.

    [​IMG]

    The slip for that run

    [​IMG]

    Had another run against him, he seemed impressed with the performance of the car and when we lined up for the second run asked if I could slow down a bit so not to embarass him so much , LOL. He did try harder the second time around.

    [​IMG]

    Only lost 2 runs out of the 11, the one I should have won but when changing from 2nd to 3rd found 5th instead so just left it there. Still managed at 14.5 second run thanks to the torque of the engine.
    The other was an R32 but it must have been tweaked a lot as it ran a 12.5 at 120 mph. Still managed to beat him off the line and was in front till about half way up the strip when he came past me.The Traction and torque is just great.

    [​IMG]

    Click on the picture below to play the video

    [​IMG]

    Heres the timeslip

    [​IMG]

    I was hoping for a shot as the fastest diesel on the day and when they asked for people to come to the grandstand for the trophy presentation my name was mentioned. However they were calling up the fastest and second fastest in each class and I was second fastest :sad: so no trophy.
    Beaten by Michael Till who was about 0.3s quicker than me in a MK2 Golf synchro with a 2.0 TDI Skoda VRS BLT engine with a hybrid turbo and a 200bhp shot of NOS.Probably similar power outputs but he is probably 350Kg lighter than my car.

    Michael Till - Mk2 Golf 1.9 TDI Syncro - YouTube

    Good fun never the less.


    Karl.
  21. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Well took the car to GTI International on Saturday at the Shakespeare Raceway. A good day out looking at some very nice, expensive cars and running up the quarter mile after it had stopped raining in the morning.
    Did 11 runs in all and managed a new quickest time just beating the one I set at Santa Pod. I don't think the track surface there gives the same grip as at Santa Pod as I couldn't get the 60ft times I managed at Santa Pod,The fact I miscalculated the fuel and had over half a tank didn't help, the Methanol helped I think probably good for a tenth of a second.
    The fastest run a 13.35 seconds at 104.8 mph.

    [​IMG]

    Had 2 runs up against a 2007 Manual Audi S5, 4.2 V8 with 350bhp and supposed to be around 4.9s 0-60.

    [​IMG]

    Click on the picture below to play the video, bit boring as you don't see anything of the S5, the same in most of the videos as I just left the other cars at the line.

    [​IMG]

    The slip for that run

    [​IMG]

    Had another run against him, he seemed impressed with the performance of the car and when we lined up for the second run asked if I could slow down a bit so not to embarass him so much , LOL. He did try harder the second time around.

    [​IMG]

    Only lost 2 runs out of the 11, the one I should have won but when changing from 2nd to 3rd found 5th instead so just left it there. Still managed at 14.5 second run thanks to the torque of the engine.
    The other was an R32 but it must have been tweaked a lot as it ran a 12.5 at 120 mph. Still managed to beat him off the line and was in front till about half way up the strip when he came past me.The Traction and torque is just great.

    [​IMG]

    Click on the picture below to play the video

    [​IMG]

    Heres the timeslip

    [​IMG]

    I was hoping for a shot as the fastest diesel on the day and when they asked for people to come to the grandstand for the trophy presentation my name was mentioned. However they were calling up the fastest and second fastest in each class and I was second fastest so no trophy.
    Beaten by Michael Till who was about 0.3s quicker than me in a MK2 Golf synchro with a 2.0 TDI Skoda VRS BLT engine with a hybrid turbo and a 200bhp shot of NOS.Probably similar power outputs but he is probably 350Kg lighter than my car.

    Michael Till - Mk2 Golf 1.9 TDI Syncro - YouTube

    Good fun never the less.


    Karl.
  22. PenttisHSR
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    PenttisHSR New Member

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    Enjoying the Thread Karl :icon_thumright:
    Sounds like you had the exhaust flap open on those runs, but did not make much difference to performance considering you also had the methanol??
    Obviously made a good job of the straight through silencers.
  23. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't expecting a great difference TBH, On a hotter day the Methanol would definately have helped more, I did some logs on virtual dyno and the exhaust mod is only worth about 5bhp as the exhaust was pretty much straight through any way, sounds a bit nicer, the methanol probably good for 10bhp.
    I would say the actual track isn't as quick as Santa Pod as I couldn't get the same 60ft times and I had about 30Kg extra weight with fuel and stuff so to go a little faster was the result of the tweaks.

    The last run I did at GTI I put the camera on the steering wheel and filmed the clocks.
    I didn't lift at the quarter just kept it planted as you can keep going for a way and take a later run off point.
    Unfortunately forgot to turn off the ESP so launch is a little tardy due to the wheel spin. Makes about 0.2 seconds difference on the 60ft if you don't turn off the ESP and about 0.4 seconds overall on the run.
    Click on the picture to play the video. The engine management light is on due to the small fudge I make to the car to get the fans running when the car is in the queue, keeps the engine/ intercooler nice and cool.

    [​IMG]

    karl.
  24. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Digging around the net looking for any videos taken on you tube and came across the Audi SRS website. As I went up the strip twice against an S5 off that site thought there might be something on there. Lots of pictures and videos including the S5 I ran against but no piccies or video of mine.

    AudiSRS.com :: AudiSRS @ GTI International - 5/6th July 2014

    There are a few interesting videos linked to showing how quick I think my car was in relation to RS and S cars. These were running on Saturday when I was.

    GTI International 2014 Sprint - B7 RS4 vs R8 V8 - YouTube

    B7 RS4 13.33 104 MPH

    R8 V8 13.8 106 MPH


    GTI International 2014 Sprint - Audi RS5 13.15s @ 107mph - YouTube

    Audi RS5 13.15s @ 107mph

    My little old diesel keeping pace with what would be considered more exotic faster company.

    Karl.
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  25. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    I noticed a few weeks ago when taking stuff out of the car before Audi International that there were some brown rusty marks on the emergency warning triangle outer case.
    This is mounted in the tailgate behind a cover, on closer inspection I could see some brown rust marks where the triangle mounted.
    I took the trim off the tailgate just 4 screws and some clips to pop and noticed a lot more brown rusty marks.
    Looking at where this could have come from the rear wiper motor seemed to be the most likely site and I could see some small brown marks on the case of the motor.
    I had half an idea what the problem might be so removed the back plate on the motor, just a few small torx screws.
    And sure enough there was the source of the rust.

    [​IMG]

    The inside of the backplate

    [​IMG]

    Quite shocked by the amount of rust and corrosion in there and it appeared to work fine, looks like the water for the rear wash has found it's way into the mechanism rusted it all up and then some has leaked out.

    The original part was Valeo, decided to see if I could find a Bosch or possibly better make but couldn't. So ordered a new Valeo item from E-bay for £66 all in which seemed reasonable for what it is. Didn't bother with the dealers as I am sure it would have been more expensive, they were £89 on car parts for less.

    The new one and old one are pretty much the same.If I cleaned off the odd brown mark on the outside of the case on the old one you would think it was new.

    [​IMG]

    Karl.
  26. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    Decided to the try car out on track, and put my name down for a local sprint event at Curborough.
    Advertised by JoJo on here

    Curborough Sept 7th 2014. With ample notice this time. Will you be there!!

    Only a very short track and probably no more than 60 seconds a go, so decided to upgrade the pads on the front. Used to use Yellow stuff pads on the Passat and they were great but quite dusty. The standard Mintex pads are pretty dusty on the car now so decided to try some of the Red stuff pads. Hopefully this will kill sort two issues in one go giving better brakes and less dust, these multi spoke wheels are not as easy to clean as the 5 spoke wheels on the Passat.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Karl.
  27. Gazwould
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    Gazwould Active Member

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    French stuff on a German car is wrong.
  28. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    I agree which is why I had a look to see if I could find a Bosch equivalent. This same motor is used on loads of different VAG cars though
    The motor is actually made in Spain so is that worse than France ??? .

    Karl.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  29. Gazwould
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    Gazwould Active Member

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    Probably, lol.

    Valeo rear motor was the 1st thing to go on my VW.

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