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Kangarooing when cold after injector recall??

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by monkeynut, May 22, 2012.

  1. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 22, 2012]
    Hi all
    I have seen that some people have had dpf issues after the injector recall replacement but wondered if anyone has had jerky/jumpy running at low revs (1200-1600) when engine is cold. The dealer has replace the injectors and looms and the car is returning around 7mpg better than before and generally running ok. A few people have mentioned the fuel filter could this maybe be the culprit? Any info greatly appreciated..
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  3. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 22, 2012]
    Car is A3 2.0tdi 170PD 56 plate WITH 125k miles and was running fine prior to having the injectors replaced...
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  4. audicruiser
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    audicruiser Audi Heaven

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    [May 22, 2012]
    How many miles have you done since injectors were done?
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  5. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 22, 2012]
    Probably around 1000? Doesn't matter what gear you're in you can still feel the hesitancy when you are light on the throttle, hence more noticeable around town/in car parks etc..
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  6. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Anyone experienced this themselves, going back to dealer on Tuesday and would like to go armed with some info as they have already come out with the typical 'we have had no problems so far with any injector recall work on other cars!' Hard to believe after reading some peoples experiences o. This forum!!!
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  7. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    Got the same issue with mine, however mine has been a total horror story (so dont go assuming the worst)...http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...ngine-sounding-rough-after-injector-swap.html

    I found replacing the fuel filter helped massively, just undo the 6 torx screws on the top & pull the filter out, if its white/grey its ok, if it's black then it could indicate a problem. The new filter is around £20 for a genuine part so it's worth looking at that first & replacing if required just to see if the problems persist.
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  8. Sidhu88
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    Sidhu88 Active Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    got the same hesitation more prominent in 2nd and 3rd at ~1800rpm. starts juddering, i've had it almost cut out on me once as i was going around a corner in 4th at that sorta rpm, coil light flickered momentarily then continuously flickered. Brought the car to a stop, turned off and turned on and it was ok again, happend once again recently going down a road with bumps, normally leave it in 2nd, light throttle after the bumps and hesitation then coil light again. Gonna replace glow plugs soon and see how we go
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  9. andyjmac
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    andyjmac New Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    thank god im not the only one, i had the recall done on mine (2.0tdi 170bhp 57 plate) and afterwards i was like woah the engine sounds like shiiiiiiiiiiiit! but drove fine for a while then about 1800-2200 revs id be kangaroo hopping. very rarely would it do it whilst accelerating, but ALWAYS when im driving round a roundabout or at a steady pace, and always them exact revs.

    So i had a new fuel filter last week, was fine for a couple of days then it started again, car went back into my local audi garage 2 days ago and they found that my egr valve ( i think thats what its called (in the exhaust)) was completely blocked and so they removed it and cleaned it out. had the car back that night and it drove like a different car, was so smooth and no kangaroo hopping. last night then, driving home from work boom, it done it, but only very softly. and today now its been fine. but im off down the motorway tomorrow so ill give it some revs to burn off any **** in the exhaust. lets see how it goes!
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  10. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    Crikey, was beginning to think I may be the only one which is always difficult to defend when coming up against a stubborn dealer! I have read your thread Max and have plenty of sympathy for you, it must be taking up all of your time!! Fair play for all the research you've done, bet it did surprise the new dealer!! Well, Sidhu and Andy's symptoms are EXACTLY the same as mine. It ran fine straight after the injector swap but afer a few days I noticed the first 'judder'. Always on light throttle and low revs 1200- 1900, I looked like complete moron in Sainsburys car park the other day hopping about! It rarely happens (if at all) on heavy accelereation and I'm not sure if the power is tailing off a bit? I have noticed a definite 'hiissssss' coming from the engine/turbo under acceleration which definitely wasn't there before? It's nearly impossible to keep a steady throttle input at low revs with it's jerking all over the place, sure it's definitely getting worse too.. Will try the fuel filter thing and certainly mention the egr valve to the dealer, boked in next tues. Will also take this thread and the other one to show the dealers as their 'we have had no problems as yet' statement has already come my way on the telephone. She initially tried to charge me £48 for for diagnostic because I was having issues with the car prior to the injector recall work but it was totally unrelated as it was trouble starting the car first thing and the engine management light flashing. Turns out it was a low voltage issue and a new battery solved the problem completely prior to the injector work being done. Suffice to say I have never encountered this jerky driving prior to the work being done. Out of interest guys, I am getting astronomical mpg since the injectors were done, about 7 mpg more than before on mfa 2. Driving it today showed 68 mpg for a a 3 mile run, it's great but I can't help thinking the car is fuel starved or something!??
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  11. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    Oh, the thread title is now misleading as it does the kangarooing all the time now!!!
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  12. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    Has anybody touched the fuel lines on the filter housing? if they get put on the wrong way round they cause major kangarooing, found that out the hard way!
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  13. Sidhu88
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    Sidhu88 Active Member

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    [May 24, 2012]
    68 mpg?!?! i struggle to break 50 driving around town. how the eff du manage that?
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  14. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 25, 2012]
    I know it's ridiculous! It was just a steady drive home from playing a round of golf! I wasn't trying to be economical, just regular driving. You think it can be fuel starved? Throttle remap or software issue?
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  15. andyjmac
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    andyjmac New Member

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    [May 27, 2012]
    well after my motorway driving on friday i thought all was fine untill the car went in to limp mode on my way home, cars booked to go in tomorrow. theyre going to change the camshaft sensor as apparently that would not show up on the diagnostics. getting fed up, might sell the car :/ and driving around town sensibly i get no more than 45mpg, how youre getting 68 mpg ill never know!
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  16. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    Left car with Audi last fri and its still there. Sods law on the test drive no kangarooing whatsoever! Master tech said in his opinion from the symptoms I've described it could be contaminated fuel or a badly seated injector. Irony is Andy, when the car choked 68mpg on the way home from golf it was kangarooing worse than ever but on the way to dealer (50mph mainly) it showed a more normal 52? I'm also tempted to move the car on if audi don't help but don't want to as have had the car 2.5 years and it has never had these sort of driving issues which makes me paranoid that I'll end up like max with dpf/engine damage..
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  17. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    Well, I collected the car yesterday and was told that the cause of my problems (and ironic timing) was a perished manifold pipe seal, basically a thin rubber seal that had broken. Part £4.82, total bill £108.40! I had to pay for diagnostics on top of labour charge as it wasn't related to the injector recall. I was also asked of anybody had moved the injector wiring loom as 'it wasn't where we left it' said the Service Manager! Nobody has looked at anything on the car since the injector work let alone the injectors!! Unconvinced but content that although being £100 lighter I'd be happy if the car runs how it used to. Anyway, the car jerked on pulling out of the dealership so I did start to get concerned somehwhat but thought it might just be me getting used to driving another car for a few days!!?? I haven't done a lot of town driving today but the car seems better, however it definitely kangarood briefly this morning but nothing like what I have got on previous episodes, YET! Because the problem is sporadic anyway I just hope that it's not just a couple of good days! I will monitor things and have told the Service Manager that if it's still not right I won't be too happy and will not be paying for more diagnostic checks. Have any of you guys had any progress with your cars??
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  18. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    After the recall my 170 DPF had issues and it went back for a software update and new exhaust pressure sensor.
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  19. andyjmac
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    andyjmac New Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    my dad dropped my car off to me in work today, i live 3ish miles from work & because it was rush hour i didnt get to go over 10 mph. but theyve changed the camshaft sensor and the injector wiring loom ( and the drivers side window motor because my window was going up and down ha ) so ive yet to discover a fault as i havent driven it properly. so will let u know how i get on!
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  20. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Is it running ok now? Any charge for that?
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  21. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Please do as mine played up a little again this morning so think its a matter of timing before I'm back to the dealer..
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  22. andyjmac
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    andyjmac New Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Drove it this morning. I had a judder! No smoother or more violent than before so god knows.. Fed up ain't the word!!
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  23. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    Same as pal, juddered a few times today but I KNOW if I go back it won't do it on the test drive as its not frequent enough. May see if I can leave it with their master tech to drive back and forth to work in it so they experience it for sure..solo frustrating!! Bought a fuel filter today but as you've already tried that I'm not sure I should bother fitting it? Is there nobody out there who has experienced these symptoms but actually had it rectified??...ppllleeeaassseee!!!
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  24. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 31, 2012]
    No covered as part of the recall, but my DPF died about a week later, and I insisted they took the car back from me as a trade in for a 140 so no idea how it is running now!
    #23
  25. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jun 1, 2012]
    Lots of town driving from cold today, car is no different than before, gutted and somewhat peeed off with incorrect diagnosis...
    #24
  26. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [Jun 3, 2012]
    Found this on an SA site while looking into the issues with mine. See the last line :(

    [TABLE="class: bordercolor, width: 100%, align: center"]

    [TABLE="class: bordercolor, width: 100%, align: center"]

    [TD="class: windowbg, width: 100%, bgcolor: #DDDDDD, align: left"]TDI Road test diagnosis.


    You can ckeck for all the common 2.0TDI engine faults in one simple maneuver on the road test. (mostly applys to 1.9 too)

    Once the engine is warm find a nice long clear stretch, (you will be doing 70 odd by the end)
    Accelerate in 3rd or 4th gear from very low revs say 1200rpm but at absolutely full throttle.(in 2nd it happens to quick, so doesn't show up any faults). Make sure you start ar 1200, slow down and it will take a while to pick up)

    It should slowly gather speed and take off at around 1500-1800 rpm, it should then accelerate smoothly and well upto about 3800 then slightly drop off, but keep on full throttle until around 4400. DO this 2 or 3 times, and Dont be alarmed if it smokes alot the first time you do it, means the current driver doesnt rev it high very often.

    If it doesnt take off until 2200-2500 there is a vacuum issue or a fault with the N75.

    If you get a smooth loss of performance over 3000rpm, the MAF is knackered.

    If you get a sudden major loss of power on the second or third attemp (limp mode) the turbo is knackered.

    If you get any misfiring (loss of performance that isnt smooth, propper juddering) above say 3000 then there is a loss of fuel pressure, either tandem pump or injector seals leaking.


    [/TABLE]
    [/TD]
    [/TABLE]
    #25
  27. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    Thanks max, I'll give it a go. To be honest, the car doesn't have any issues accelerating that I can feel. My problem is always under light static throttle use. Like the car doesn't know if my foot is on the throttle or not and sends fuel through sporadically causing the car to kangaroo?! Hope that makes sense!!??
    #26
  28. Rhyso
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    Rhyso Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    Have you tried cleaning out the EGR valve? I had a similar problem and I cleaned out my EGR valve on the weekend. So far, so good and low speed manoeuvring seems much easier. Still need to drive the car a bit more but it does seem much improved!
    #27
  29. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    I haven't tried this to be honest mate but willing to try anything! Forgive my naivety but is there a guide on this as I don't even know where it's located let alone clean it!!?? Ta
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  30. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    At the front of the engine you will see a silver pipe with an electrical connection attached to the base of inlet manifold, this is the EGR.

    To remove it you will need to disconnect the boost pipe that joins it at the bottom by pulling the clip off & pulling the pipe out. You will then need to use torx drive to remove the 2 bolts which hold hold on the EGR return pipe (fitted on LH side of EGR), once that is out you can then get access to undo the torx bolts holding the EGR to the manifold. Undo the electrical connection & remove it. Make sure you dont lose the gaskets (or order new ones to do the job).

    You can then carefully scrape the worst of the muck out of the pipe with a blade then soak & clean the remains with diesel or turps & lot of scrubbing with a suitable cleaning tool (it is a filthy job). Make sure after the unit is totally dry & has no loose bit of cack that could come off & go into the engine.

    Refit is the opposite of removal.
    #29
  31. Rhyso
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    Rhyso Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    I used Bardahl EGR cleaner which you can spray whilst the engine is running. Myself and my mate Darren disconnected the boost pipe going into the EGR valve, I sat in the car and held the revs at 2000rpm whilst he sprayed the cleaner directly into the EGR valve at 1-2 second intervals.

    The Bardahl kit is designed to be as easy as possible to use and to remove as much carbon as possible without stripping most of the engine apart the aerosol cleaner is designed to break down and liquidise the carbon and oil deposits then the fuel treatment (supplied with the kit) is used to flush the last bits out
    #30
  32. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    Cheers guys, much appreciated...
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  33. Craig Brake
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    Craig Brake New Member

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    The only thing i havent done is the egr valve. I will wait for audi to diagnose that as they're going to be asked to put a new DPF on the car after i had to put a 2nd hand unit on after it blocked a week following the injector recall.

    CONTACT AUDI CUSTOMER CARE VIA THE WEBSITE AND LOG A COMPLAINT. THIS IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY OF GOING ABOUT THE PROPER IMPARTIAL DIAGNOSIS. THE MORE THAT DO IT THE BETTER FOR EVERYONE.

    i'm hoping it blows up under their care for a new engine :)
    #32
  34. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jul 14, 2012]
    Well, as well as having the continued irritating random kangarooing I now have had the dpf warning light on twice, changed a charcoal black looking fuel filter and now have the emissions warning light/engine management light and the car in limp mode! I can already see plenty of 170tdi owners suffering similar things sice the recall work but has anyone actually had the problem solved? My bet is the fault code is some sensor or other like other people have experienced?, Thought about dpf delete but worried in case new injectors are faulty and then won't be covered by Audi? any thoughts?
    #33
  35. dantdi
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    dantdi ...

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    [Jul 14, 2012]
    I have this juddering in 1st and little in 2nd also. Only under light throttle and under 2000rpm when cold.
    My a3 done about 300 to 400 miles after new injector has been fine!
    But in last week i have started getting this juddering.
    #34
  36. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2012]
    A charcoal fuel filter so soon after the injection swap is fairly indicative of an injector leak so I'd get that looked at asap. They should have updated the ECU software at the same time & if this isn't done it causes issues with the DPF regen cycles, have a word with the dealer about this while you're there.
    #35
  37. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jul 16, 2012]
    To be honest I don't think they changed the fuel filter when they changed the injectors. Not sure about the software update but I will ask them. The dealer said they haven't had any cars back since having the injector work done which contradicts everything I read about! Having the dpf pressure sensor replaced later as that was what the fault code indicated (G450 implausible signal etc) and go from there. Just hoping this is a coincidence rather than something related to the injector work and the sensor doesn't solve my problem. Also been told a dpf delete is quite difficult on my car (56 plate 170) due to the ecu being an 'older' one??
    #36
  38. Cossie_boy
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    Cossie_boy Member

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    [Sep 22, 2012]
    I'm now a member of this club!

    pleased to hear im not alone, had any fixed been found?

    In the last 2 months ive had a new turbo, tandem pump, boost control solenoid, remap, mad n inlet manifold, now it has highlighted the hesitation or judder at low revs, almost pre-turbo
    #37
  39. chazd
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    chazd Member

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    [Sep 22, 2012]
    Mine has done the same since I have had the injector recall about 10 months ago, always juddered same place very morning on way to work!!
    #38
  40. Cossie_boy
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    Cossie_boy Member

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    [Sep 22, 2012]
    Try a different route?! lol

    Nah seriously, I actually drove another today that my friends got for sale where he works, and it done the same slight hold back in first just after you pull away, we dont know if its had the injectors done but looks very untouched under the bonnet, so maybe a characteristic of these?
    #39
  41. nfswisstony
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    nfswisstony New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Guys - Email Watchdog !!!!! if enough do then something might be done about it. We ended up having to pay for a replacement car as they could not fix the issue, so we are thousands out of pocket for an issue Audi Caused and will not admit to!
    #40

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