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K04-15 Turbo Finaly Fitted

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by welshdragon, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. imported_dumpvalve
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    imported_dumpvalve Guest

    Forgot to add:

    Standard injectors are no problem if they are not in a bad state. This is something they would determine when they do the remap.

    Price for fitting and remap of K04.15 - 930 (after VAT)

    Price for remapping K04.15 alone - 646 (After VAT)

    Drew.

    #41
  2. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    I have the Milltek sports cat and it is defo mod you need with the K04, it helps get those gasses out pronto so that to help the turbo. And there is a very tiny difference in the exhause note as well. I dont think a K04 upgrade would be the same with out one.
    #42
  3. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    I see mate but my idea is, if you pay x amount for somthing you want to get the most out of what you pay for and help it to reach its potential.
    I don't think it is a necessary mod as long as your existing cats are in good condition.
    #43
  4. imported_dumpvalve
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    imported_dumpvalve Guest

    I agree there. I think I might take the easy option for now and just get the K03 remapped at AMD with a Milltek. Funds are tight with Christmas on it's way, and I'm getting very impatient in the hunt for more power!

    Drew.
    #44
  5. simon_golf_tt
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    Markey - what sort of power/torque did you get from your K04?

    I'm sticking a K04 on soon - from the group buy, but I don't intend to change the cat as I don't want to spend too much on the A4 as it's supposed to be my (an my wife's) sensible car. I'm only getting the K04 as the K03 died and the GB just happened to be happening at the right time for me. Luckily I also have access to a remap from a Belgium Tuner friend. So I will be able to report back on what the K04 is like on a standard car (possibly with S2 injectors). The melted cat story is a worry but doesn't it point to the turbo getting too hot through lean running? The car will be going on the rollers at Star Performance in Fife on the 28th of November so I will have some figures to quote after that.
    #45
  6. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    I am still trying to find my dino report that AMD did when they did the upgrade.
    As soon as i have hold of it i will post it.
    Give or take a couple it was about 230BHP with 240torque things but i could just be making torque thing up.
    I will have a real sort out tonight and find it.
    #46
  7. welshdragon
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    welshdragon Member

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    Guys,

    I have got my car booked in for the software update next week but superchips do recommend the follwoing:-

    Fit a S3/TT MAF Sensor
    Fit S3/TT Injectors

    They say their software will work fine (infact desinged on these parameters) if these components are changed ensuring that the engine will not run lean. This sounds reasonable to me and it should help get the old silver bullet hopefully ovwr the 260 mark when I start playing with the other bits and pieces at a later date.

    So I need to know if these two items can literally be swapped with my OEM bits or is their any other parts that I will nedd to make the change i.e spacers for the injectors etc. Any advice would be much appreciated.
    #47
  8. simon_golf_tt
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    Mat - best of luck with the remap - I hope you get good numbers. Will they have it on the rollers to setup?

    Rich reckons the injectors are a straight swap so you should be OK.

    The MAF might not be a straight swap - my Golf one (which is a 180 TT one) and my A4 one are a different shape and use a different type connector. If superchips recommend these mods then surely they know how to do it? Or are they assuming that the 1.8T A4 engine is the same as the 1.8T VW, S3, TT, Seats, Skoda of this world?? I don't intend to change the MAF, didn't have to do that on the Golf.

    I'm hoping that my K04 is here tomorrow and I can start fitting it tomorrow night.
    #48
  9. madkebab
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    madkebab Member

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    Simon - I guess you were the other person on the groupbuy then? My turbo has arrived today so now the fun begins. It looks like you will be beating me to the install so I would be very grateful if you could document any issues you have when fitting the turbo as its always good to learn from others experiences. I will be fitting my centre vent boost gauge this weekend in preperation for the K04 install. Does anyone know if Giac have any distributors in the UK as they have done some very good programs for the B5 K04 upgrade.

    Simon
    #49
  10. simon_golf_tt
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    simon_golf_tt Member

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    Madkebab - are you a Simon too then?

    I was on the group guy too and my turbo has arrived at my parents, so will be collecting on the way home from work. Was there only two of us on the GB?

    I might start fitting it tonight, though I have to weld on a couple of nuts to the downpipe to allow my tuner friend to monitor EGT and lambda value while he remaps it. The nuts are required to fit the sensors while mapping.

    I'll certainly post on this thread how the installation goes, but I'm hoping it's a straight swap. Me and a mate have organised a RR shootout at Star Performance in Fife for a week on Sunday so I should have some figures to quote soon - if all goes well - fingers crossed.

    Are you fitting the turbo yourself or paying a garage to do it?

    I've just fitted a boost gauge myself in the centre airvent nearest the driver. I made a pod from the vent and some sheet aluminium and then sprayed it satin black. It looks OK.
    #50
  11. madkebab
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    Simon - yes I am another Simon. I think we were the only 2 on the GB as far as I know. Im still unsure as to which route to take with the upgrade at the moment so I will wait with eager anticipation to see how you get on. Is your tuner friend Mihnea from the s2forum?
    I will look at fitting the turbo myself with the help of my brother, only concern is the exhaust manifold bolts which could be hard to remove due to the heat they have been exposed to. From the tech article on Audiworld it seems to be pretty straight forward.
    My boost gauge was sourced from APR in the states, would have been reasonably priced except Customs nabbed me for VAT!! Never mind should look sweet once installed.
    #51
  12. simon_golf_tt
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    simon_golf_tt Member

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    Simon - Mihnea is doing the remap - the beauty being it is a fully custom remap. He has done my golf too.

    I'd try doing the turbo yourself with your brothers help - it's easy to remove as it's so accessable on the A4 - the golf is a nightmare in comparision. The manifold bolts on mine came off easily - they must be at least M12's so are chunky and I'd be surprised if they snapped. If they did snap they would be left in the old turbo anyway!!
    #52
  13. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    **excited**

    Let us know how it goes boys!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #53
  14. simon_golf_tt
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    Got my K04 fitted from the group buy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Took 3hrs to fit on wednesday night. As you can see from the pic, there is loads of room with the airbox removed. The only tricky bit is the bottom nut of the three that attach the cat. It's awkward to get at.

    I have tried driving the car tonight and it goes fine. Performance is very similar to the K03, maybe slightly faster, but I expect that until I get a remap to suit the K04. Peak boost is 1.2 bar - not the 1.7 Mat gets.

    Remap should be early next week. RR a week on Sunday.
    #54
  15. simon_golf_tt
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    simon_golf_tt Member

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    And from below
    #55
  16. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    simon the pipe that goes from the turbo to the air box is it the one with the really thing bend in it? As im thinking of getting the Samco replacement, as i want as much air in as poss with the new mods coming.
    #56
  17. greytsport1
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    greytsport1 Member

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    Simon, have you had the rempap done yet i was thinking of putting the ko4 on my b6 but am interested to see how you get on who is doing your remap?
    #57
  18. simon_golf_tt
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    simon_golf_tt Member

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    greytsport1 - no the remap will be getting done sometime in the next few days and then it will be tested on a RR on the 28th Nov. I'll report how it goes.
    #58
  19. imported_passat16v
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    imported_passat16v Guest

    How much are you chaps paying for your re-map, as Im thinking of fitting a K-04 to my passat 20vt

    cheers

    Paul
    #59
  20. welshdragon
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    welshdragon Member

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    Paul,

    Superchips are charging me £300 + vat for a remap on their rolling road. I have already had it chipped previous so not sure what the price would be if your not a previous superchip customer.
    #60
  21. simon_golf_tt
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    Just to say that I had my K04 remap done on Monday - but unfortunately too late for the rolling road that my mate Doug and I organised at Star Performance on Sunday. So I currently don't know how much power the A4 has. I haven't had much of a chance to test it yet either as the weather has been grim in Scotland. Hopefully I'll get a chance this weekend.
    #61
  22. welshdragon
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    Simon,

    Shame you didnt get the rolling road done as it would have been interesting to see what figures you got. Mine is booked into supperchips HQ on monday for a remap on the rolling road so will let you know how it went on tuesday. Did you have the remap done with new injectors? I am having mine done with the S3 injectors fitted of which supperchips say they will map the car to 1.2 bar boost. What type of boost are you running at now?
    #62
  23. simon_golf_tt
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    Mat - I didn't fit the bigger injectors as the car didn't seem to be running lean. I must be getting a peak of 1.2bar, but it drops off a bit too quickly - so I think the map needs a tweak yet.

    I hope all goes well at superchips - please let us know what numbers your get.

    Is yours a throttle cable or drive by wire?
    #63
  24. madkebab
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    Got my boost gauge fitted last weekend in preperation for the K04 install. Its surprising how quickly the boost drops off with the K03 I hope the K04 doesnt suffer the same. Mat - Will be interested to see how you get on at Superchips, my current Superchip is running at a max of 14psi which I think is approx 1bar which I think is about right. Still not sure what route to take with mine, tempted to go to Jabba as have heard nothing but praise for their work.
    #64
  25. welshdragon
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    welshdragon Member

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    Guys,

    I was extremely disappointed with my results at superchips yest. As I mentioned before they advised me to upgrade the injectors to the S3/TT ones before the remap. However the S3 injectors I ordered were about 3/4 inch too short and wouldnt reach the fuel rail when inserted into the manifold.

    So either I had the wrong injectors, or the S3/TT ones are not just a straight swap as I have been previously informed. I didnt have time to sort the injector problem out as I tried to fit them on sat in prep for yest. Anyway after weeks of driving like an old lady due to my overboost problem I decided to go and get my remap done anyway just to make the car safe to use with an optimistic view of still getting reasonable results.

    Superchips said that they would try to maximise the boost & remap whilst ensuring the air/fuel ratio was maintained i.e. make sure not running lean. The carried out several runs on the dyno & road tests to arrive at the final map which took around 3 hrs.

    However the figures from the dyno were EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTING to say the least. The car was finally run at 1.0 bar boost (claimed lack of fuel stooped this going any higher) with a calcualted flywheel BHP figure of 197 bhp & 205 ft/lbs or torque. I was F**king gutted with this to say the least. With a K04, Miltek Downpipe & Cat Back Exhaust I was expecting 220-235 bhp figure @ fly even at 1.0 bar boost.

    If those figures are correct the I have spent a total of £2000 on performance I could have got from a simple remap for £500. Maybe should to get someone else to remap the car, so madkebab I would go elsewhere and see what you get.

    There is a little positive that came out from yest though. As I have mentioned my results were shockingly low from the dyno, however the car is actually great to drive. It pulls much better in 1st & 2nd with a much crisper throttle responce and a much greater feeling of torque. There is an increase in lag in 3rd, 4th & 5th but the car really does pull well right upto 7000 revs with no drop off of power through the rev range (mind my peak power on dyno was at 6800 rpm).

    To be honest if they had said the car was running at 220-235 bhp @ fly without me seeing any read outs from the dyno I think I would have believed them. The only thing is I just cant get the figures out my head and feel gutted with the paper results. They say to come back with the bigger injectors fitted and they will be able to raise the boost and get more power, but I am tempted just to go and have the car remaped again by someone else.

    AMD are highly recomended but they are the only tunners that say that you need to change the cat due to high temps. Does this mean that they run the car lean to get higher figures as they claim no bigger fuel components are needed? So perhaps Jabba then? Any comments would be appreciated.



    #65
  26. simon_golf_tt
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    Mat - What a bummer! My remap didn't go great either, we had problems controlling the boost level. This seemed to be traced to the waste gate frequency valve duty cycle map, as adjusting this has nearly fixed it, but it still needs a couple of tweaks. Luckily my tuner will keep adjusting till I'm happy. I won't put mine on the rollers until the map is optimised.
    Is your car a throttle cable or DBW? Supposedly the DBW ECU's are easier to map.
    My tuner had never done an A4 1.8T throttle cable K04 before and he had therefore done some research with his peers in europe. The information he got was that the standard injectors (if in good shape) are good for 240bhp anyway. He said a rule of thumb is 'cc=max bhp' and our injectors are 270cc injectors.
    As I have posted on here already - S2 injectors fit and are ~336cc - so they could be used if your mapper can optimise the fuel map to suit.
    #66
  27. welshdragon
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    welshdragon Member

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    Simon,

    Just spoke to Jabba who say that superchipps seemed to limit the remap by quite alot and that the bigger injectors are not needed with possible replacement of the FPR if required. They told me that they normally get 220-230 bhp @ fly with 240-250 ft/lbs of torque. They say the turbo can produce more but the tiny intercooler is one of the limiting factors. So if they mapped to the 240+ mark the heat soak brings the power back down.

    Jabba also map the boost to around the 1.3 bar figure at 2500 rpm tailing to 0.9 ish at the top end. So I am thinking of going to jabba for a remap in the new year but am f**ked off in spending £240 for new injectors which I didnt need and £350 on a remap which has to be done again. This is the last time I am going to bother tweaking a car, I will just bite the bullet and buy a proper car in the first place. Mrs does really love the M3 so wouldnt get it too much in the neck for a big loan to buy one. As soon as their under £20,000 then I can get one.
    #67
  28. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    Bummer... all in time though guys. We all KNOW that things will come right... just about finding someone out there who can recommend a good setup to suit this. You guys are going to be the guys passing on what you have learned to all of us guys in the future as we lust to have setups that are as great as yours soon will be.

    Chin up guys and keep hammering away at it... you know it is going to be worth it when your styling with 250ish brake!

    Cheers,
    Leon
    #68
  29. simon_golf_tt
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    Mat - The figures Jabba quoted sound on the money. I'm getting about 1.3 bar peak on mine at the moment but the boost isn't linear it fluctuates a little bit. I would expect 0.8/0.9 bar at the red line. So it sounds that superchips gave you a very conservative map.

    I can understand why you are seriously p1ssed! Don't go over to the dark side and get an M3 though. Get an S4!!

    The throttle cable mechanically opens the butterfly in the throttle body - it's a thick black cable from the accelerator pedal to the inlet manifold. DBW cars have an electric motor to open the throttle and therefore an electrical connector instead.

    My engine is a AEB, which is the 150bhp engine. There was 180 A4 TQS at the rolling road I organised recently - it did similar figures to you without any mods apart from an exhaust and filter (no remap) - think it was 197bhp. I'd try for my money back from superchips - and go to jabba.

    Maybe Simon (madkebab) will get his done at jabba soon?? Then we'll see what they can do.

    What with Christmas coming up I'm not sure when I'll get my map optimised - hopefully early next year.
    #69
  30. gc48067
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    I had my AJL code engine mapped by MTM initially with just the stock turbo. This gave 220BHP and 240lbs/ft with an exchaust and downpipe.

    Later got my KO4 and they originally got 240BHP and 250lbs/ft but it wasn't running too smoothly so to be safe they remapped back to the 220BHP programme and are getting a guy over from Germany to set things up on the rolling road.

    I think the K04 setup can be a little tempramental but to be quite honest wouldn't trust it to someone like Superchips who to my mind do a great job at generic remaps but are not well known for custom setups. For me there are only a few players in the custom remapping arena - MTM, AMD, Jabba and Dialynx. Out of these the next people I will be trying is AMD as I have heard a lot of good reports about them.

    I think that getting a car tuned is an art, sometimes it goes smoothly and sometimes it doesn't. Stick with the K04 and get it remapped by someone with a bit of history - it is worth it. You will get your 240BHP 250lbs/ft and a great turbo sound to boot. By the way changing the N75 to an N75J made a fair difference to the power delivery on mine - may be worth a try.

    Sorry things haven't gone well so far.

    Greg
    #70
  31. imported_VaulterTim
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    imported_VaulterTim Guest

    Matt,

    I echo most other people's sentiments on here, kinda feel for ya bro'!

    I think I'd definately go for my money back from Superchips too!

    Your car DOES have 180BHP as standard, I know because I have the same one (Quattro[?] with engine code AJL) and I got 193 from mine after AmD fitted just my Milltek and then 227 and 238ft lbs of Torque after the Remap...

    With your setup I would expect a little more than that mate!

    What part of Cardiff do you live in? I'm Welsh myself but live up here for reasons unbeknown to me at this point in time! :S

    I visit Cardiff quite a bit so it would be good to get together and have a pow wow sometime of your interested...

    I really can recommend AmD though, they're the N*ts! In my opinion you can't travel too far to get things done properly, you only end up paying for it in the end.

    Try for a refund and go see 'em mate, you won't be disappointed.

    I'm not really sure how much mine is boosting because I don't have a boost gauge fitted at present but I think it's around the 1 Bar mark.

    (As an aside to this topic, where is the best place to get a boost gauge gentlemen!? Options?)

    And Greg, just bought an N75J for mine... where is it in the engine bay, can't seem to find it at the mo but it IS dark and I haven't had time to look properly yet...

    Cheers

    Tim
    #71
  32. welshdragon
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    Greg,

    Thanx for the comments. I did have a N75J fitted to my car but swapped it back over to the stock one due to my overboost when I fitted the K04. I must admit on my old turbo it gave a much crisper smoother feel to the car so maybe get it mapped with the N75J valve fitted. There is alot of good reports from AMD's remaps but the only thing that puts me off them is the fact that they say you need to change the cat and I havent got £500 for a new cat & then another £500 for the remap. Jabba are probably my first choice at the mo as they claim similar results without changing the cat. So hopefully madkebab will get some good figures if he goes there.
    #72
  33. gc48067
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    I have checked the invoices I got from MTM - they changed the CAT on my car.

    AMD are probably recommending you get the CAT changed not insisting you get it changed - may be worth another call to them to confirm.

    Greg
    #73
  34. welshdragon
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    welshdragon Member

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    Tim,

    I actually live in barry not cardiff, so perhaps could arrange to meet next time your down. Make sure you bring your car down as it would be nice to compare the two.
    #74
  35. imported_VaulterTim
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    imported_VaulterTim Guest

    I definately don't have the CAT on mine... nor the downpipe judging by the price I paid compared to the prices on AmD's website.

    But...

    I want to get the big turbo thing done (hopefully Garret GT28RS or GT2871R) in which case I'll be needing a custom downpipe and Sports CAT... so I think I'll postpone that one for now.

    Just hope the CAT doesn't melt in the meantime! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
    #75
  36. imported_VaulterTim
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    imported_VaulterTim Guest

    Matt,

    I always drive...

    ALWAYS

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    #76
  37. madkebab
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    Not sure if Dialynx do custom remaps. I thought they were a REVO distributor?
    #77
  38. gc48067
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    I haven't spoken to them but they sell Motronic kit so assume they can remap.

    Was only suggesting it as they are close-ish the where Welshdragon lives (or at least I seem to think they are remembering back to my Geography O Level...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Greg
    #78
  39. simon_golf_tt
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    Mat - Good email mate - I hope they offer some form of compensation. They might try and offer to have another go at mapping it - don't know how you'd feel about that?

    Markey - that pipe is for the transverse engines, so won't fit your A4. I have the neuspeed pipe on my Golf. I think the only alternative for the A4 is the Samco silicon pipe.
    #79
  40. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    Cheers simon i thought so.
    Wish it did though it looks nice.
    #80

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