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Jardo's 'Journey to quattro' - My Story...

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by 16Klappe, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    About bloody time Jardo! Congrats, that's a damn good set of figures.
  2. A3-Lee
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    A3-Lee Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Fair play some good figures there mate
  3. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    [​IMG]
  4. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Hahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahah

    On another note! Well done dude very impressive
  5. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Thanks guys :)

    I will do a proper write up tonight, but the long and short of it is that I am totally over the moon.

    Launch control is amazing fun, and the extra torque is incredible. In some areas of the rev range I have 100bhp more now, which is taking some getting used to. When you change from second to third, and third to fourth it totally nails you. And with the linear throttle mapping and torque intervention mapped it is so easy to drive around town.

    Not to mention timing is more dialed and torque is up which has improved fuel economy, we did 609 miles yesterday on 1 full tank of fuel and the filler neck! I will calculate exactly what they works out at to go against my DIS, but the screen said 44.7 when we got back to Tavistock.
  6. A3-Lee
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    A3-Lee Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Fair play some good figures there mate
  7. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Impressive mate, vids of the launch control for laughs....:eyebrows:
  8. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Tank capacity is 62 Litres/13.6 Gallons
    609 / 13.6 = 44.7mpg

    Even if you can do this many miles to a tank, the question is WHY? You have just had your car remapped and yet you appear to be driving it like my nan! Go and drive it properly you big nancy :moa:
    StaceyS3 likes this.
  9. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    54l on a fwd car westicles :)
  10. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Even more unbelievable then! 51.6mpg :think:
  11. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Jardo do you want one of these and start again... :p

    [​IMG]
  12. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    How much do we think is in the top of the tank and the filler neck in total? A gallon max? If there is a gallon in the top of the tank and filler neck it makes 46.84MPG.

    Anyway, MPG is gay. My car is rapid so the only thing I care about MPG is how quickly I can devour it! :p

    What do you think of the graph Westy? Very unK03 isn't it?
  13. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    It's all down to Niki's mapping technique. He's making smaller turbos behave like bigger turbos. The extra torque is immense, I do love mine for that reason.
  14. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    The extra torque is what I am loving, this morning I was giving it a pull from second to third and changed just a little early, came in third at bang on 3k.

    The only way I can describe it is like a spring board, it loaded up and I felt it build boost then it was just off like a train. Such a great feeling, I will get the video up.

    :)
  15. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
  16. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Flol, what you guys don't know is I drove almost 3 hours at crawling speed due to a lunched gearbox.
  17. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    [​IMG]
  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    OK, I waited, I decided this was the opportune moment to release this picture:

    [​IMG]

    Why are Pirates of the Caribbean quotes so appropriate in this thread?
  19. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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  20. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    BwaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa *choke* hahahahhahahahahahahahahah *cough* hahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahahhahahaha fml!
  21. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Flol so much. Phil and I cried about how totally retarded we are.

    I spent three hours driving at crawling speed, crying with my head in my hands because we were both totally certain we had sheered a diff rivet launching the car.

    Bearing in mind I have been in Prawns A3 for three gearbox annihilations, Phil works for a VAG specialist and is the most technically knowledgable person I have ever met for VAG stuff between the pair of us we both agreed we would put our log books and a years wages on a sheered diff rivet. The noise was horrendous, and in third it sounded like a bag of nuts in a washing machine. There was a shocking winingnoise on over run and it quietened down at high speeds.

    I got to the services about 200 miles from home and noticed a knocking noise when going into 4th, I was pretty ****ed off so I just ripped the catch can off and threw it in a hedge (I know that was what the knocking was) and hey presto the gearbox was fixed.

    Haha. Such a pair of ****s.
  22. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]

    The fk is Flol?

    Is it another word that needs killing with fire, like Yolo and swag?


    Does this proves that experience and knowledge means nothing. :ninja:
  23. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Is that the cause of you missing out on a spicy shredded beef?
  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Correct. :(

    Next time! Did you get the Golf out especially?
  25. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    No, I fired her up yesterday, and drove her 45 miles through some twisty black stuff to charge the battery! :racer:
  26. Loupigs
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    Loupigs Member

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Well that's the last time I Whatsapp Prawn when angry...
    Rainbird likes this.
  27. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    Noooo Lou, we need a weekly installment...;)
  28. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    [Feb 1, 2013]
    Ok so yesterday was a very split day, there was the fun factor of the road trip, getting to Rtech, meeting everyone, messing with Launch and then as we left, pulling away in first, a rumbling noise, that got faster with speed, in every gear, getting louder the fast you moved, then on over run a massive droning noise, so having tried the weight shift test and kissing the brake pedal, my gut feeling was diff/input shaft bearing issue

    more so diff as a knackered diff bearing will drone its head of when off throttle, and drone when on throttle if the bearing is to tight,
    bear in mind, we were both knackered, 300miles from home, without a mobile (that worked) the plain was to get home, by hook or by crook

    Now im gonna disagree with Jardo, he knows more 'in the know about VAGs' than me, tbh my gut feeling was ****ed box, the noise/feel felt just like it, i would have put my months wages and Rons V5 on it being a box fault

    Anyway, im a retard :)

    I love Jardos car, its epic
  29. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    I haven't really properly updated this since the new mapping.

    So here goes with a copy and paste off another forum -

    My friend Phil had to take his car up to R-Tech to be dropped off for a custom map which will take two weeks, the plan was always to take my car up at the same time and get it custom mapped as well. But money and time constraints meant that it just wasn't possible, so we had arranged for me to drive his diesel Mk5 up there to drop his A3 off.

    Phil and I on the way to R-Tech -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I got fed up with people taking the piss out of me on forums and basically saying that I was all mouth and had no proof of how quick my car was; so I maxed the credit card and we took my A3 to R-Tech. I couldn't quite afford a full custom map, so I was booked in for a free Torque Intervention removal on my existing R-Tech map; still worth the drive up though.

    Got up to R-Tech and it was business as usual, a customer in with an AGU Mk4 Golf who had all of his work done by Awesome GTI. Awesome couldn't find the cause of this mans issues so they had agreed to book the car in with R-Tech to get the map updated. Was good fun chatting with the bloke, his car made 225bhp and he left a very very very happy man.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We stood about and chatted for 5/6 hours as you do at R-Tech and had a cracking time. Niki pulled my car on the ramps and had a quick play about, he asked me what I thought it would make and said that he'd seen my wild claims that 191.2g/s could reliably be divided by 0.8 to give an accurate BHP figure. A fairly wild claim; dividing airflow by 0.8 to accurately determine the cars power...I told Niki before he even turned on his laptop "My car will make 239bhp."

    I've been getting SO much **** and hatred from the VAG forums for logging airflow so much, people have been saying it is all total ******** and ruining me for it.

    [​IMG]

    234bhp dead from the first map, and after a couple of pulls to let the car settle down the old map spat out 239bhp. From a three year old R-Tech stage 1 map. Niki was so impressed with the car, he said there was very little more to give in terms of peak figures. But he would give me 100bhp more in places.

    Again, this picture shows the before and after map.

    [​IMG]

    245bhp with the updated custom map with Torque Intervention managed and throwing loads of timing at it. :yahoo:

    A good guess from me? My car now logs 196g/s of airflow every time I measure it, which = 245bhp. On the cold morning on the way to work I see higher, 199g/s as my peak so far. On the road it is possible to get more power due to atmospheric conditions effecting the intercooler and intake temps.

    So very happy about that indeed, it makes my car one of the fastest K03s cars out there without water meth. Now that Mylo has blown up his Leon I think I am pretty much top of the food chain which was always my goal; but I'll be pushing on with the new SFS supersize K03s TIP that I have invested in to try and break the 250 mark for myself. That's the goal.

    Niki also mapped in launch control for me, which is f**king awesome fun! But more on that later...(fairly low rent video clip from a 5 year old phone; HD camera launch will be done soon)



    A quick video on the rollers; although Phil missed the flames.



    And a quick in car with the new mapping -



    I know it was wet; but the way it loses traction now even in the dry is mental. As you can see in that video as soon as I suggest full throttle at 4500rpm in third (at 70mph) the wheels instantly light up. The torque and power is in all honesty difficult to control; I've outpowered the chassis now as well as my own driving ability. Any more than half throttle in first, second and depending on the surface in third and it just spins up so aggressively. I'm going to have to upgrade the lower arms, hubs and front roll bar to Leon Cupra R units and try to get some front camber to retain the traction advantage I used to have. With the old map I could drive everywhere foot to the floor and not really go quick enough to really be too dangerous; and it was great. Once I get to grip with modulating the throttle with this map I'm sure it will be great; but up until now I've neglected other more important areas. Other than a set of coilovers and a RARB my A3 is totally stock suspension wise. And 200bh/ton is as good as 70% more than it was designed for; I'll have to talk to Prawn about how to do this properly.

    The way this map delivers is night and day to the old map; and it is a true testament to Niki at R-Tech in terms of performance it's wicked. :gun2:

    The first upgrade now is brakes though; because the new map is so smooth compared to the old one I am finding myself travelling a lot faster than I should be a lot quicker than I think. I'm seeking that pull at the top end that I've never had before; as though the low RPM torque is still there but it doesn't die off keeping me away from the power. It's a slippery slope for sure

    To just touch on the mapping a little more, you might be wondering what "Torque Intervention" is. To explain in short terms it is a way of the stock ECU trying to limit torque by adjusting the timing, for instance if you imagined a row of timing points as being (for instance) 20*, 20*,0*,20*,20*,0*,20*,20*,0*,20*,20*,0*,20* and so on there are points in there where the timing is retarded (in old speak) back to 0* to limit the amount of torque that the car can make. The aim of TiV removal is to remove the 0* timing which is occurring and replace them with a less radical timing adjustment to make power and torque delivery smoother and much more linear.

    It is something which the Bosch 1.8t ecu's do, and until recently was something people were aware of but unable to map around. Niki at R-Tech found a way to do it, and has been firmly at the top of the tuning game ever since.

    The Torque Intervention can be seen by the squigglyness of the previous map, and the benefits can be seen by the linear and smooth plot of the post map as well as the ability to control the turbo more efficiently and add more timing which allows for more power and torque at the top end. Both maps are shown with the same sample and scaling rate; where as previously the sample and scaling rates would have been adjusted to make the graph look smoother and it was just a trait of the ECU.

    I can't thank Niki at R-Tech enough, not only for this new map but also for what he's given me over the last three years. The map that he took off was ****ing amazing; and I'm so pleased it made the goods back on his dyno. I hope it inspires everyone to think twice before throwing their baby K03's in the bin.

    So there we have it! My car is all mapped up and awesome :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  30. Rainbird
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    Rainbird Member

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    Should shut up the haters for a while, at least on the power/logging front :p

    If you promise not to drive it like the 205 I might even sit in the passenger seat to see how much this has changed in the past 6 months!
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  31. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    Haters. Argh. A term created by dreamers for people who prefer fact over assumption.

    Nobody ever said it was bullsh*t 'Bird. The beef was with the conviction and belief with which we were all expected to believe it, without any possibility of other logical explainations being accepted.

    I knew it was very good, but I really did believe the MAF was over reading by ~10gs or so, which would still have put it in a very healthy position.

    Plenty of cars have shown high airflow in the past without the power to back it up, Speedy Steves showing 275gs suggesting 345bhp yet returning 314 on the dyno, More recently Dans hybrid flowing 292gs but only making 255bhp on the dyno, it happens, often, for various reasons, boost leaks, senors over reading, all sorts.

    Still, I don't mean to cast a negative on the success :)

    it's now been on a dyno, and I think it's safe to say we're all properly impressed, and I'm very happy to see the car doing well, properly great results. In this case, the airflow logs did correlate to power, so happy days.

    Obviously, the reason it's so bloody good it because it's all my old parts working their magic :laugh:

    Just meth left to get ;)
  32. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    Awesome buddy.
  33. Rainbird
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    Rainbird Member

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    [Feb 3, 2013]

    Ah, don't get me wrong dude it's all about having the real figures and the evidence to back them up - fractions speak louder than words and all, else I did the wrong damn degree!

    All I know from chatting with J-Rod is that there've been so many people on assorted forums, Facebook groups and elsewhere giving him **** for the car that it's quite nice to put that to rest. Yeah, people calling him out on not having proper data is a perfectly fair shout, but saying that there's no way the car was putting out that much grunt is now off the cards :happy:

    Now then, what spares have you got left that'd fit a Leon... :whistle2:
  34. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    I've not got anything you can have :(

    Phil Miller has probably got loads though :p
  35. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    That's quite impressive jaardo. Like you said though I'd consider some decent suspension mods now and maybe lcr brembo brake upgrade? I have them with ds2500 pads and their awesome IMO.

    Sean
  36. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    onwards and upwards and all that :)

    Brakes, new FARB to match the rear, and some bushes I reckon. should improve it nicely
  37. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 3, 2013]
    LCR Brembos are my number 1 option.

    I don't think I'll be changing my coilovers unless something comes up cheap; for road use they are very good. I need to stiffen up the suspension geometry and get some 225 or 235 tires I think, as well as fit some stiffer engine mounts to aid in weight transfer.

    Been speaking with Prawn tonight and we've got it all under control :p
  38. Lavis89
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    Lavis89 Active Member

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    [Feb 4, 2013]
    I am going to have to pop to tavi soon to see mr miller when my new MAF and filter etc etc turns up. past week or so i've finally managed to motivate myself to get this car tip top for beach trips in the summer. haven't seen your car around the city before jardo, will have to keep my eyes open. although moving pretty much next door to ye olde dockyard means the a3 doesn't get out so much any more (saves a tonne on petrol though!)
  39. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Feb 4, 2013]
    I live in Stoke, so we can't be that far away :)

    We will have to sort out a Plymouth meet up soon?
  40. Lavis89
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    Lavis89 Active Member

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    [Feb 4, 2013]
    yea very close, i have to drive through stoke village to get to mine from the city centre, live in keyham these days. plymouth meet would be pretty cool, good to meet some like minded individuals, im still getting my head around having a turbo and all the bells and whistles that go with it, i've always had early 90's bangers before the a3

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