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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by 16Klappe, Sep 17, 2011.
Whats all these internet jpegs for Jardo?...................
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Not sure if serious.
Can you not see the images? Or do you not know what they mean
ha soz on my phone..
Basically they're peak airflow logs, showing 191.2g/s. Which as we all know is pretty much 240bhp.
Get it on the rollers. I need to do the same. See if 224g/s really is 280. Last time I tried, the Haldex freaked out.
it's good going indeed dude, mine made 224bhp from 176g/s on Bills rollers when same spec as yours, and that was generally peaking 186g/s on the road, suggesting that on the road in cooler conditions it was regularly making 230bhp.
191g/s on a st1 map really is pretty amazing airflow though.
Must be all the awesomeness that's soaked into that intercooler over the years!
Some pictures cars that aren't mine -
And I cleaned the womans 500 this morning -
A friend of mine bought that Leon on Friday so I gave it a paint correction and winter prep. Looks good for £1500
The Mk5 belongs to a friend of mine who I work with, he's had it stage 1 mapped by R Tech to 252bhp.
Mine is loads quicker than the Golf
This cold weather is giving my car an appetite, for coil packs
Had two go within the week or so, but luckily my car hasn't had the recall done yet and they are the original so I get 4 nice shiny new coil packs and a new A3 for the day on Monday.
When I took the car up to them the receptionist just lol'd at how modified my car was, at first they said they wouldn't do it but then I kicked up a bit of a fuss and they agreed to sort it for me. I tried to explain to the guy behind the service desk that the modifications on my car put the coil packs under no extra strain than standard, and how could he justify their refusal to do the work.
He couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer and eventually said yes, so I made them book a courtesy car for me at the same time. Their coffee was pretty good too.
Phil Mil is dropping me over a spare pack tonight so I can get back on the road again for the next week. Even with three cylinders the baby still smashed a chav in a Zetec S on the way back from work
bore wash much?
Injector was unplugged, chill woman. What's the worst that can happen?
I'd rather drive a missing engine at 3K where the centrifugal forces balance the engine out a little more than chugging along at 1500RPM dangerously doing 40mph on a dark and icy A38.
All fixed and going like a champ again
Thanks Phil. Such a hero.
Im just glad i can help dude
My STANDARD map s3 makes in excess of 191 g/s
Rotational inertia, not centrifugal forces* .
A3's looking good! Need you to do your crazy paint stuff on the Scirocco sometime, see if that saying about turds is true after all. Seeing your cars all shiny and clean makes me want to get a new top-coat on mine sometime.
Glad the engine's doing well too, as I said, I've got a spare set of coil-packs if you ever need any. I wonder how it would go down if I turned up at VW/Audi with my Scirocco and explained that the (somewhat extreme) modifications around the engine don't put any extra load on the coils
* Unless of course you were talking about the intentional miss-balance a lot of crankshafts have in order to partially compensate for the accelerative forces of the pistons, which is irrelevant to how many cylinders you're running on, as they're all going up and down anyway, but my guessing is you meant smoothing out the missing combustion sequence by reducing the engines deceleration while waiting for the next working cylinder.
Dude... The car is looking good! I still love those wheels with my whole heart!!
Yups, and even when you map it mine will still be quicker
When are you mapping your car? Didn't the clutch start slipping the other month?
Such a gay. Yes that's exactly what I meant.
Scirocco cleaning can happen whenever you want, if you want I am off this Sunday and next Monday and Tuesday. You should come down to mine for a day and I'll make it awesome?
Thanks man, I love them too I'm thinking of changing them for something, but obviously keeping these wheels. I'm not sure, but I think I'd like a set of these -
Cannot wait to sort your car out on Thursday/get it mapped.
I'm fairly sure those are what Robin has to go on the 'Rocco too Should look very sweet.
not a fan of those wheels, but each to their own hey!
At least Jardo actually manned up and had his mapped already
Yeah Robin is putting Azev A's on the rocco. Such a beast car, I love it.
Huge almighty great update coming now which will make all K03s owners happy.
It is -3 outside today, which means 5* intake temps. And most importantly I just logged 196g/s which going by the old rule is 245bhp, obviously this would be totally unrepeatable on a set of rollers due to heat soak and other badgers, however I don't drive on a rolling road.
Interestingly last night I removed my old 007p and fitted an OE DV to test. My 007p must have been leaking a fair bit.
Whats the gauges picture from?
It is an application you can get for Android phones called Torque. The easiest way to describe it is like a liquid gauge for your phone.
You plug a bluetooth OBD sender into the port and then connect the phone via bluetooth and it reads off all the engines sensors as the ECU reads them, so it is as accurate as your ECU.
The only area it fails is in the boost/PSI menu it does not set to 14.7 as a default, so it adjusts the inlet pressure out by around 4psi/inhg.
I have logged it against VAGCOM and it reads exactly the same values at the same refresh rates/intervals. I use it every time I drive my car
jardo just believes its a dyno and takes the airflow figures as gospel
So it's about as accurate as the Met Office is
whilst the figures arn't 100% reliable, more often than not they've shown to be within 5% of the reading you'd get on most dynos, so +/- 10bhp or so at this level.
Obviously, the 0.8 equation seems to work best with a standard turbo, injectors, and maf scaling, and it's accuracy does seem to drift when upgrading lots of parts together, but it's still a good guide.
What it is brilliant for, is a direct comparison of improvements though.
If you log 180g/s and take note of atmospheric conditions, then go and fit a few mods, and log again in similar weather conditions, any improvement in g/s is a good measure if your performance improvement, perhaps not bang on dyno results, but it's the only measure available to every man every day....
Regardless of how much we all like to slate jardo, most st1 A3's will see around 160-170g/s, with a few good ones like my old one creeping up to the 180's in cold weather. 190 is exceptional.
It does of course rely on everything being in good health, and no boost leaks, and a decent working MAF, but it'd be awfully scrooge-like to assume that the readings MUST be incorrect, even though in truth none of us want the horror of jardo in 'worlds fastest A3 debate - PART 2''
I'd say innocent until proven guilty at this point, I'll log it myself over christmas and check it over to see if he's tricked us all some how
I will stand by my claims that his stage 1 K03s is not 245bhp. If anyone want's me to believe that it is anywhere near that then get the thing on a dyno
if it was pulling 10g/s, it would still be the best, fastest car in the entire world. no one in the world can dispute that. ever.
its FACT. as proven by all the factual comments he posts
I'm dubious that my 224g/s will produce 280bhp. I know it's more on the road, and goes well but still. Seems a lot from 225 on an unknown map.
Have to see when I'm able to make it down, the offers definitely appreciated though. The 'roccos paint may make you recoil a little, I'm not sure there's a panel on it that's not been badly re-painted at some point! I'll be down to Castle Prawn over Christmas at some point if I'm not any sooner, but I really need my new wheels before I do any real distances on the motorway, the revolutions on there at the moment not only look awful, but they're bent as hell too, making sitting at 70/80 a massive chore, and anything higher just plain worrying. Need to get them down from way up north ASAP.
I do love Azevs (hence why I just bought some!) but I'm not 100% about on them on an A3, they look damn good, I just can't get away from the fact they're such a hugely 80's wheel. I guess the same could be said about a lot of old wheel designs though. Shame mine are wrong to trial fit in just about every way possible!
I'm with Nick on the logs, they're great for before/after testing to use as comparable results, but when it comes to relating them to actual figures or comparing them car to car, they're only really able to give a vague estimate due to the amount of external factors they don't take into account. Even ignoring the obvious issues with sensor calibration/accuracy they're basically assuming that mechanical and thermal efficiency are fixed constants, which clearly they're not.
How about Karl and Westy both **** off back to their own build threads and stop being ****s in mine.
You don't see me ****ing your **** up, because I'm not a childish ****.
If you haven't got anything nice to say then don't say anything.
It's kind of a fun game filling in the blanks in that, my guess is: F, T or C, F, S, T or C. Chill out, don't rise to it and you'll remove half their fun.
True that Robin.
Bang on Rob, although I can assure you it will be C's and not T's in Jardo's case. it's his favourite word.
Hahahahahaha the irony
<gets the popcorn out>
Just want to expand on what I said about the assumption of variables with the MAF logs, to point out that you especially can't compare the results of an S3 to the results from an A3 like Jarrod's, the 0.8 rule is assuming that thermal efficiency is constant, if it varies then the results will be skewed. One of the biggest, and certainly most directly noticable factors effecting an engines thermal efficiency is compression ratio. As Jarrods car uses 9.5:1 compression while an S3 uses 9:1, the S3 should and will produce less power for the same amount of air flow, as the lower compression ratio reduces it's ability to turn the heat released from the fuel into kinetic energy.
So yeah, an S3 having higher airflow readings but lower power makes complete sense, and is theoretically backed up.
Meh for £30 I will quite happily take my car to the RR round the corner on Friday just to further back up a statement which is historically correct.
G/S can and has been successfully tanslated into a fairly accurate power figure many times, both before physical dyno runs as a prediction and after cross referencing logs with dyno graphs. Personally I don't see the point, other than SK's attempt at having an argument.
you lot still waffling on about a3's being faster than s3's lol
the A3 vs S3 debate is soooooooooooo 2010 Adam.
New argument, complete with bold claim:
My A3 is faster than your RS4
[g/s divide 0.8 ] its a guide not gospel
I see plenty of cars which flow great incoming air but then make poor use of it thereafter...