Is This problem a Canbus Wiring fault ??

[mike foster]

Hi guys hope you can help

I was asked to code an AUX socket into a 56 plate S4 Cabriolet (B7 chassis) with factory fitted RNS-e but no telephone. I am using fully registered VCDS version 10.6.4. (from Nige).

When I did a scan there were a few faults but the scan did not cover modules 37 and 56 although they were indicated as being there.( at least they were listed at the top of the scan )

When I went to access the modules individually I got the error message 'cannot connect to control module' This happened two or three times with both modules.

The car has mfsw and all equipment (radio/sat nav/mfsw) operates as expected without any error messages.

I presume that modules 37 and 56 must be there otherwise the RNS-e wouldn't work - would it ?

My question is - am I not doing something correctly or is there a problem with the canbus wiring ?

Any help is much appreciated. (I have the scan but can't seem to post it !!! )

Cheers

Mike

 

[VRStu]

37/56 is the same in this instance - The RNS-E.

It would appear that the Gateway and VCDS cannot communicate with the the RNS-E so I would think there is a break in the CAN Hi & Lo. If one wire were in place it would report a fault similar to 'single wire operation'

The list at the top is just a generic list of possible controllers.

 

[mike foster]

Many thanks for the reply Stu.

Would the RNS-e work ok without the Can HI and LO being connected and is there a way for me to check the wiring other than at the connector behind the head unit ?

Thanks again

Mike

 

[VRStu]

The RNS-E would work without Can, the power etc would still be connected.

 

[jb0o]

The RNS-E would work without Can, the power etc would still be connected.

Without CAN the RNS-E would turn off every 30 minutes wouldn't it?

 

[VRStu]

I don't know about 30 mins but yes the RNS-E would take some input from CAN.

 

[mike foster]

The guy has just confirmed that the RNSE does not switch off on its own !!

Although the unit was factory fitted could there be something to do with the 'K' line causing a problem?

Sorry to be so vague chaps but this has got me stumped and I don't even know where to start checking the Can-bus wiring ???

 

[VRStu]

Do you have a VCDS Autoscan?

What was the Aux in you coded?

 

[mike foster]

Hi Stu

Can I just re-wind a minute mate.

Firstly, it wouldn't do an Autoscan which puzzled me until Jonny (jb0o) told me that the S4 (B7 chassis) doesn't have direct canbus addressing and therefore Autoscan will ( and did ) not work. Basically there isn't a canbus module to address. I did a full scan by selecting the car from the drop-down list. I have that scan but have trouble posting it. Will try again in a minute.

Secondly, because I couldn't address modules 37/56 I wasn't able to code in the AUX socket. Don't know what make of socket it was because events had overtaken the situation by then !!

Will try again with the scan :-

Monday,30,May,2011,19:07:27:07944
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4
Data version: 20110418
Foster



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8H - Audi Cabrio B6/B7
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 26 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 63
65 67 73 75 76 77

VIN: WUAZZZ8H97K900960 Mileage: 83990km/52188miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 079-910-560-BBK.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 910 560 J HW: 4E0 907 560
Component: 4.2L V8/5V 0020
Revision: --H01--- Serial number:
Coding: 0011714
Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
VCID: 2C529090F69B

1 Fault Found:
17985 - Right Engine Mount Solenoid Valve (N145): Open Circuit
P1577 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-910-517.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 J HW: 8E0 614 517 BH
Component: ESP8 quattro H06 0140
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0004901
Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
VCID: 2E569A98C087

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 BL
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 2833
Coding: 00100
Shop #: WSC 00672
VCID: 6CD25090361B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 N
Component: int. Lastmodul ECE 0907
Coding: 20021
Shop #: WSC 00672
VCID: 3D74ADD41DE1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8H0-959-655-94.lbl
Part No SW: 8H0 959 655 E HW: 8H0 959 655 E
Component: Airbag 9.42 H09 1840
Revision: 92H09184 Serial number: 0037Y000P2RC
Coding: 0071114
Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
VCID: 3C72A0D006FB

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0701
Coding: 02011
Shop #: WSC 00672
VCID: 418CD1246119

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
Part No SW: 8H0 920 981 B HW: 8H0 920 981 B
Component: KOMBI+WFS 4 H14 0110
Revision: 0110 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0007411
Shop #: WSC 00272 210 90061
VCID: 2F68879CC78D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8H0-959-255.lbl
Part No: 8H0 959 255 A
Component: VSG B6 CABRIO 7094
Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
VCID: 346288F02EAB

1 Fault Found:
02000 - Switch Position
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
Part No: 8H0 959 433 K
Component: Komfortgerát T3B 5241
Coding: 06831
Shop #: WSC 00672
VCID: 3C72A0D006FB

Part No: 8H2959802D
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0205

Part No: 8H2959801D
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0205

Part No: 8H0959801A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0002

Part No: 8H0959802A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0002

2 Faults Found:
01616 - Signal Wire to Interior Monitor
79-10 - Please Check Fault Codes - Intermittent
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range Labels: 8P0-907-357.lbl
Part No: 8P0 907 357 F
Component: Dynamische LWR H02 0010
Revision: 00000001 Serial number:
Coding: 0000005
Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
VCID: 3D74ADD41DE1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 63: Entry Assist,D Labels: None
Part No: 8H0 959 760 A
Component: EasyEntry F H13 0010
Coding: 00005
Shop #: WSC 00065
VCID: 3564B5F425D1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 73: Entry Assist, P Labels: None
Part No: 8H0 959 760 A
Component: EasyEntry BF H13 0010
Coding: 00005
Shop #: WSC 00065
VCID: 3564B5F425D1

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[VRStu]

I can't see anything in there that would shed any light, sorry mate I don't know from there.

 

[NHN]

Check the kline wire in the back of the unit, was it retrofitted or factory, check the instruments adaptation channel settings as there are a few in there to state if radio, nav etc are actually installed as iirc the instruments is the network controller for canbus connection on the B6/7, doesnt have a can gateway specific module as such.

 

[mike foster]

Thanks Nige - as far as the guy knows the unit was factory fitted so in theory kline shouldn't be a problem should it ?

Interesting about the instrument adaptation channels, that was certainly an area I didn't know about or check.

Will report back after next scan

 

[VRStu]

Looks like Nige has it, the device list is in 17 Instruments.

Ross Tech gives -

Channel 062: CAN-Databus Infotainment (Installation List)

• +00001 = Radio (Optional)
• +00002 = Telephone (Optional)
• +00004 = Navigation (Optional)
• +00008 = Telematics (Optional)
• +00016 = Intrument Cluster (Standard - only coded with 2nd Component)

 

[mike foster]

Thanks again Stu

 

[NHN]

I was having same discussion with PDave over on audiforum.us & the canbus on the B6/7 appears to be used for just interaction between certain modules like RNS, BT, Cluster, its not diagnostic afaik, kline is the diag.

So by this I'd say kline isnt happening on the rns for some strange reason, could be wrong, but as there's no comms with vcds then stands to reason.

Butttt also strange no errors stating no comms with radio, which would maybe indicate also its set to not installed hence reason no errors showing.

TBH should be easy to track down as can only be 1 or 2 things.

 

[mike foster]

Thanks again Nige.

I notice on the RT site that in module 17 channel 099 'transport', it can be set to active or inactive. Does that mean that if it's set to 'active' it will talk to VCDS ? What I'm thinking is that somehow I have to be able to get into channels 37/56 to activate the 'AUX' socket and to do that don't I need transport ?

I'm meeting up with the guy again tomorrow evening so will report findings.

Thanks again

 

[VRStu]

As I understand it Mike, Transport Mode is almost akin to a sleep mode designed to put most things into standby to preserve the battery.

 

[mike foster]

As I understand it Mike, Transport Mode is almost akin to a sleep mode designed to put most things into standby to preserve the battery.

'******' - that's that theory out of the window then !!! lol Cheers anyway Stu

 

[VRStu]

This might sound silly but how has he fitted the Aux In that he's asked you to code??

I eluded to this before when I asked about the Aux In. IMHO to fit an Aux In would require removal of the RNS-E and hence the possibility of dislodging some wiring. If he's bought something from eBay or similar with a supposedly plug and play loom then these are notorious for not having all pins connected.

Just thinking that the simple solution may be more fruitful than spending time trying to diagnose an electronics fault.

 

[mike foster]

That's a very good point Stu ! Sometimes I can't see the wood for trees if you know what I mean !

I will suggest that he removes the 'AUX' input and then I'll see if I can access modules 37/56.

yet another 'thanks' mate :icon_thumright:

 

[NHN]

This might sound silly but how has he fitted the Aux In that he's asked you to code??

I eluded to this before when I asked about the Aux In. IMHO to fit an Aux In would require removal of the RNS-E and hence the possibility of dislodging some wiring. If he's bought something from eBay or similar with a supposedly plug and play loom then these are notorious for not having all pins connected.

Just thinking that the simple solution may be more fruitful than spending time trying to diagnose an electronics fault.

+1

 

[mike foster]

OK chaps - latest update !

Removed the (Kufatec) Aux unit and put the car back to original.

Went into 'Instruments' module 17 and channel 062 (Infotainment) had the value 21 which is correct if no phone fitted.

Still unable to connect with either 37 or 56.

It seems as though it is just possible that the unit may not have been factory fitted after all as on examination it had a number written on it in black indelible pen which we thought would be unusual for a factory unit ?

Am I correct in thinking that, if it is retro-fitted in place of a Symphony Radio/CD, the k line pin would need to be moved as per loads of threads ?

What colour is the k line wire normally - is it brown because that is what is in the slot designated as k line on the unit label !!

The plot thickens and we get no further

 

[stucker]

Thanks again for your help today Mike. I think it is looking very likely it is a retrofit as I have found the following article that seems to confirm it: Audi B7 S4 DIY: Symphony II+ to RNS-E Installation -

Basically this describes moving a brown wire (which is bose) from b5 to b7 to free up k line socket (b7 is currently empty on my connector and I have Bose). It then says to swap wire in c7 to now free b5. I have a wire in c7 currently which seems wrong as this is labeled as the 'mic in +' port and I don't have telephone prep. Therefore I presume this wire is my k line that needs moving to be able to do necessary coding.

Bit of a nightmare as I don't know if I trust myself to start disconnecting wires. Has anyone done this themselves - is it something a novice should attempt or do I run the risk buffeting up my rns-e?

 

[mike foster]

Have just looked at the item in your link Steve. Don't worry about moving the wires about - I've done that on loads of occasions and with much smaller pins (radio control servos ) so I can do it. Don't you attempt it if you're unsure.

You just need to remove the connector block from the unit so that we have plenty of room to fiddle about. Just need to make another arrangement to meet. !!

Will text you

 

[stucker]

Third time lucky hey! I'm away this weekend but should be available at some point next week if that suits?

 

[VRStu]

Starting to get somewhere now then gents. Fingers crossed.

 

[jb0o]

Aye, keep us updated Mike, interesting one this!

 

[mike foster]

Update - all sorted !!

As ( eventually ) suspected, the unit was not factory fitted and whoever fitted it didn't do the pin change-over that is well documented.

Changed the pins this morning and k-line access to modules 37 and 56 was successful.

Re-coded in accordance with the provided alternatives and - bingo- the AUX socket works ok and no fault codes shown (apart from one to do with the engine ).

Just as a matter of interest, should the 'Mode' button on the mfsw do anything with no telephone installed ? I would have thought you should be able to swap between radio/cd/aux with it ?

Anyway the good news is Steve's gone home happy !! and I've learned a lot !

Cheers for all your help guys

Mike

 

[NHN]

Nah mode just switches the dis top section display between tel phonebook & the current music source, of course with no tel installed, it wont do squat.

Glad sorted & could only really be that thing if all else working fine.

Now to sort that blokes cruise

 

[mike foster]

Thanks for that Nige - bit strange about the mode button but hey-ho it's an Audi !

As you say, now to the other Steve for the cruise control problem !

Will keep you informed :icon_thumright:

 

[stucker]

Thanks again for all your help on this Mike - I really like to know how these things work and I have learned an awful lot too! Also cheers to the rest of you guys for the input throughout! Now to go for a ride accompanied with some music from my IPod