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Is My Shaft Normal?!?!

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by chadvaliant, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Hi and sorry about the dodgy title but I though it would get extra attention and I need help urgently. Also I mean the title literally.

    I'm having clutch/flywheel problems with my 2007 8P S3 and my mechanic can't find anything wrong. I just had a new clutch, dual mass flywheel and release bearing installed and now I have these problems...

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm.
    2. Occasional rattling noise from the gearbox when I let the clutch out.
    3. Occasional knocking noise at idle and in neutral.
    4. Clutch pedal shakes/judders and gear lever too.
    5. Occasional power loss/surge.
    6. Stiff gear changes in all gears and sometimes won't go in at all.

    Anyway, back to my shaft...

    I got my mechanic to take the gearbox out again because I said I wasn't happy. I was hoping to see something obviously wrong but there wasn't, except maybe... my input/clutch shaft splines.

    Do the splines on the end of the input shaft have little ridges? It's like they are serrated all along the tops of the splines. Also I thought I could feel a slight mushrooming on the splines. The last 10mm of the shaft felt wider than the rest of the shaft. The other thing I noticed is that it had no grease on it, bone dry. Also there were streaks of grease coming out of the middle of the clutch hub/centre. Sorry I don't know the right words for the parts but I hope I'm making sense.

    Is it possible there was no grease or too little grease or the wrong grease on the shaft?

    Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
    #1
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  3. Sidhu88
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    Sidhu88 Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Depends how many inches it is i guess....
    #2
  4. smurfworth
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    smurfworth Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Apparently 6-7 inches is the average..
    #3
  5. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Shaft Fact: You can never have enough grease on the shaft. If it's the wrong grease, you're doin it wrong.

    Richard_Roundtree_1973.JPG

    (don't bait us, you wont get an answer, just a wall of shaft jokes).
    #4
  6. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Its all in the girth...

    no grease isnt gonna hurt it...
    #5
  7. davc
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    davc Foursprung Duck Technik

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    As long as it touches both sides then I guess it's normal :haha:
    #6
  8. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Hi @udi A3 and thanks for your answer. I'm not sure if the second half of your answer is genuine or not. Are you saying that the grease between the clutch and shaft won't cause problems? Or was that just another joke?
    #7
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  9. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Yes I appreciate that this could be funny to some people but it's very difficult to talk about shafts, grease and release bearings without it sounding bad. That's why I said grease instead of lube and ridges or serrations instead of ribbed.

    This is a genuine post and I really do need help urgently.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
    #8
  10. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Cooommmmeeee on! You set yourself up for this with the title and lines like "Anyway, back to my shaft..." ... don't backtrack now.

    Also, if somebody had an idea, im sure they would chime in. We're just joking cos were sad loners with nothing better to do. Anyway, we're doing you a favor bumping the thread every 10 minutes with hilarious, side splitting, rare jokes.
    #9
  11. david_phillips95
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    david_phillips95 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Symptom 1 sounds like your gearbox has been shafted without enough lubrication
    #10
  12. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I know, you're not wrong and like I said I do appreciate that it could be funny. I'm just worried it will be all jokes and no genuine answers.

    I'm running out of time to find a problem with my car and I'm stressing out. I don't want to have to pay to have my gearbox out twice.
    #11
  13. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    doesnt your spanned man know what hes doing ?
    is this shaft ! on the g box side or engine side ?
    #12
  14. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Hi David, thanks that sounds like a serious answer. What makes you say gearbox? Is this something that you've come across? Do you think the other symptoms could be related?
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  15. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Gearbox side. It's the one that the clutch sits on and it goes into the gearbox.
    #14
  16. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    gearbox specalist ?
    they will tell you
    #15
  17. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    he came across a gearbox that had been shafted.
    #16
  18. immo
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    immo Stop me

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Stiff or not, whatever you do don't force it in.
    #17
  19. david_phillips95
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    david_phillips95 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Sorry it was a bad joke but on a more serious note....try draining your gearbox oil and checking for metal shavings, swarf etc, the issues you list above sound like a box issue or DMF, not a clutch issue. I have added possible faults but this is just possible issues it could be something else

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm - DAMAGED GEARBOX BEARING
    2. Occasional rattling noise from the gearbox when I let the clutch out - RELEASE BEARING, GEARBOX INPUT SHAFT BEARING
    3. Occasional knocking noise at idle and in neutral - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED
    4. Clutch pedal shakes/judders and gear lever too. - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED FOR PEDAL SHAKE
    5. Occasional power loss/surge - POSSIBLE CLUTCH SLIP MOST LIKELY DMF NOT MATING CORRECTLY WITH CLUTCH
    6. Stiff gear changes in all gears and sometimes won't go in at all - FAULTY BOX OR CLUTCH NOT FULLY RELEASING

    Just a few other questions....were new DMF bolts fitted, should be new ones whenever it is removed also double check all part numbers are compatible with your VIN. Could be a case of the wrong pressure plate, release bearing or DMF

    Also I had a few gearboxes through audi when my car was in warranty due to bearing noise, in my experience of running additional power through the boxes I found they had a very limited lifespan so another question I would ask is are you putting additional power through your box and what mileage is on the car?

    Thanks,

    David
    #18
  20. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Thanks Bez, I appreciate your help. In regards to a specialist, I don't know if I'm dealing with a specialist until it's too late. These cars are quite rare where I come from and finding someone who knows them seems impossible. I went to a so called euro car specialist yesterday and asked if he had the LUK dual mass flywheel measuring tool and he said what's an LUK and what's a dual mass?
    #19
  21. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Wow thank David, that's great stuff.

    I don't know about the bolts, I would hope so but even if I asked I wouldn't know if the answer was honest. All the parts looked correct to me. The mechanic had the old and the new on his work bench side by side and they looked identical. He said he double checked the part numbers too.

    The car has done 70000km and it is standard power and standard everything else for that matter.
    #20
  22. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    where are you from ?
    #21
  23. ninjakid
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    ninjakid Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Im sorry but this tread actually make me laugh out loud on the train, people think im nuts. Sorry 2 hear about the issues tho, as this post aint really helping.
    #22
  24. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I've put my popcorn away now.

    I cant recall but I know there was an issue of similarity with an S3 shaft/drive, but for life of me I cant remember wtf it was, I seem to recall flange mentioned or maybe confused with another car, sorry not much help atm.

    I will rack my brains, maybe S3Alex will pop in to save the day on this one.
    #23
  25. david_phillips95
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    david_phillips95 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Things can look identical on the bench but really different when compared dimensionally...a few mm can make the difference between working and not working....Whoever fitted the clutch etc should be looking into the problem as it wasnt faulty prior to he/she working on it..Some recordings of the noises and photos of the old and new parts would also help.

    Thanks,
    #24
  26. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    In regards to draining the gear oil... The mechanic said he did drain the oil and it was dark but no swarf. I found it strange that it was dark because it was only 9000km old.

    Is there a way to tell if the gearbox matches the car? All my problems started after my local Audi dealer messed up my diff. I got it back from them and then the clutch pedal would sometimes only come back half way. That's when I took it to these other guys to get that fixed. They said release bearing but do a clutch and flywheel at the same time as they are wear and tear. I know that one of the staff at the Audi dealer has a modified S3 and now I'm wondering if he has my gearbox in his car.
    #25
  27. david_phillips95
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    david_phillips95 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Not sure if there is a way to tell, wouldnt imagine someone at Audi would swap boxes, hardly worth risking your job over a gearbox. I would personally check the gearbox oil myself. Wont be the first time i have heard horror stories of going to change your gearbox oil to find its empty. A gearbox with no oil would give you a few of the symptoms you listed.
    #26
  28. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    You're right they should be looking into it but at one point they told me that all cars rattle and I should just deal with it. The problem I have is that it's in their best interests to not find a problem. That's why I'm looking to find the problem.
    #27
  29. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    They checked the oil and it was dark but no swarf. The oil was only 9000km old but I don't know how dark it was or how quickly it gets dark.

    Also... In regards to risking jobs for gearboxes. I got a Haldex service at the dealer and they drained the diff instead. The general manager dealt with the problem and he denied the whole thing and even sent his service manager out to my broken car to hide evidence of their mistake.
    #28
  30. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Don't worry Nigel, I sent the shaft .... sorry bat signal Alex's way too ...
    #29
  31. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Filth
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  32. Sandra
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    Sandra MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Guys, the op asked a question, please keep the replies to useful info. Thank you.
    #31
  33. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I actually PM'd people to get the poor guy help with his shaft problem, hoping many eyes and heads on the shaft would cure it.
    #32
  34. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Thanks Sandra, it started out a little dodgy but I'm getting some good replies now.
    #33
  35. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Thanks wuta3, I was wondering what your post meant. I now understand that you sent S3Alex a message. Thank you.
    #34
  36. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    #35
  37. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    So did I lmao.

    Hold on, it came back from audi with a messed up diff, care to expand a bit on all this story as doesn't seem complete.
    #36
  38. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    #37
  39. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Hi NHN, thanks for your help, I didn't realise you also sent a message for me.

    Yeah I went to get my 60000km Haldex service from the local Audi dealer and the drained the diff instead. Then they double filled the Haldex and gave it back to me. It started whining and so I called them and said something is wrong. They sent a service manager out to look at it. He started lying to me straight away. He said it was a common fault to leak from the seals and it had nothing to do with them. He then put an allen key into the Haldex drain hole and quickly opened and closed it three or four times. I asked him what he was doing and he said checking fluid levels. I now know he was scoring the nut as it had never previously been opened. Anyway there was a court case and it was a nightmare. They even went as far as making a fraudulent warranty claim against my warranty company.
    #38
  40. wuta3
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    wuta3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Sounds pretty bad matey. "Shafted by Audi" is probably a good name for it. Hope you get it sorted.
    #39
  41. chadvaliant
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    chadvaliant Member

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    I just want to be clear that I don't think there is any relation between the Haldex service and this gearbox/flywheel problem. The only way I could link them is if Audi stole my gearbox when they butchered my diff. The clutch problem only started after I got the car back from them. I think they are separate issues though, just bad luck.
    #40

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