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Is it worth it?

dancuz Dec 3, 2012

  1. dancuz

    dancuz Member

    140
    11
    18
    Hi all,

    Have been an S3 owner for about 9 months now and do really like the car. So far I have changed oil pickup, new thermostat, temp sensor, shocks, top mounts, 4 wheel alignment, rust on roof rails sorted - may have missed some bits but all basic stuff that needed doing. Just before I bought the car (off an ASN member) it had a B5 tip fitted and was stage 1 mapped by RSD near Daventry. Apart from that it's standard and done 85k miles with good service history.

    Poor quality photo when bought: [​IMG]

    Only things worth noting are that the gearbox whines a little and is clunky from first to second (not bad) and as far as I know has never had a new clutch or flywheel. Logs I did a few months ago are as follows:

    [TABLE="width: 1037"]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Group A:[/TD]
    [TD]'002[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Group B:[/TD]
    [TD]'031[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Group C:[/TD]
    [TD]'115[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]RPM[/TD]
    [TD]Load[/TD]
    [TD]Inj. On Time[/TD]
    [TD="colspan: 2"]Mass Flow[/TD]
    [TD]Lambda Factor[/TD]
    [TD]Lambda Factor[/TD]
    [TD]Bin. Bits[/TD]
    [TD]Bin. Bits[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]RPM[/TD]
    [TD]Load[/TD]
    [TD]Absolute Pres.[/TD]
    [TD]Absolute Pres.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]TIME[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]TIME[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]TIME[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Marker[/TD]
    [TD]STAMP[/TD]
    [TD] /min[/TD]
    [TD] %[/TD]
    [TD] ms[/TD]
    [TD] g/s[/TD]
    [TD]STAMP[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]STAMP[/TD]
    [TD] /min[/TD]
    [TD] %[/TD]
    [TD] mbar[/TD]
    [TD] mbar[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.01[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2520[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.42[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2440[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.91[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2440[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.39[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2400[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.81[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2360[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.08[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2320[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.72[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2320[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.02[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.32[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2240[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1020[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.61[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2200[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.69[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.91[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.23[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2080[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1020[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.53[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2080[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.33[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.82[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.12[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2040[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.42[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2000[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.03[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.73[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.03[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1960[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.34[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1960[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.89[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.63[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.93[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1920[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.24[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1880[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.89[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.54[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.991[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.047[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.84[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1840[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.14[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1840[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]13.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4.78[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.45[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.023[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.945[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.75[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1840[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]46.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9.05[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1880[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]74.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.48[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]31.97[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9.35[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.953[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.969[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9.64[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2080[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]93.2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2030[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1160[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9.96[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2160[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]100.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9.18[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]45.25[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10.25[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.969[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.961[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10.56[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2400[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]121.1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2370[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1440[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10.86[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2520[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]130.1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]66.19[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.16[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.953[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.953[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.47[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2800[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]155.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2370[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1840[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.77[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2960[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]174.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]16.32[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]106.83[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.07[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.953[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.938[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.37[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3320[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2310[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2390[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.67[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3480[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]188.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]19.04[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]127.64[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]12.97[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.875[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.883[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]13.28[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3880[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2310[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2310[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]13.58[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4040[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]19.38[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]153.69[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]13.88[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.86[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.86[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]14.18[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4440[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2370[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2330[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]14.48[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4600[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]20.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]173.36[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]14.78[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.844[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.836[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]15.09[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]4960[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2340[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2290[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]15.39[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5160[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]20.06[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]185.61[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]15.69[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.813[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.813[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]15.99[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5480[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]186.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2370[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2170[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]16.29[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5640[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]183.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]19.38[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]194.89[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]16.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.805[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.805[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]16.9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5920[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]178.2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2340[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2100[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]17.2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6080[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]172.9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]18.36[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]199.94[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]17.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.797[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.805[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]17.8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6320[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]162.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2280[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2080[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]18.11[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6440[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]168.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]18.02[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]202.22[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]18.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.758[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.86[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]18.72[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6440[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]990[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1410[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    From what I gather (not being particularly clued up) all looks fairly healthy with a 202g/s reading and healthy fuelling. However, as I knew I would, I'm wanting more power so am looking at my options. To go stage 2 and see good figures I figure I need:

    Wellycooler (but would want to keep fogs) ~ £220
    3" downpipe ~ £260
    V3 mani ???? ~ £260

    But if all that is being done I should probably stick a second hand gearbox on there with clutch and flywheel at ~ £750

    Question is - is it worth it!? I would have to be paying someone to do the work for me (nowhere to work and not got all necessary tools or expertise). Labour on all of that would be a lot of money I would imagine (anyone got any rough guesses)? I would then have to think about mapping to make much of a difference. Am I really going to get that much better performance? I would mainly like to increase bhp / torque earlier in the revs and I know stage 2 will help, but will it really make it that much better to drive?

    All thoughts appreciated, and sorry for such a long post.

    Cheers,

    Dan
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. sam4191

    sam4191 If In doubt, Flat out!

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    Tidy looking car mate! I noticed a nice difference with the 3" Dp sport cat. As for labour costs, I would have thought you are looking at about the same amount again. Especially for the Mani. I'm not doing mine, unless I need the Head, or Turbo off, as it is an 8 hour job in the book. With the mods in my sig, I am seeing 222g/s everytime and it is day and night from standard!
     
  3. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona Audi S3 quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Is it worth it depends on you and how long you intend to keep the car? Cars cost money, that's a fact! If you have the disposable income to do the above, and plan to keep the car for a while, then it's worth every penny as far as I'm concerned, as you get the enjoyment factor of it all. Don't forget to uprate the brakes to handle the extra power whilst you are at it!

    My own S3 is at a power level I'm comfortable with, given that I hardly use it(AmD stage1 map and B5 V1.1TIP). For the past 12 months though, I've been tidying up the handling of my S3 to make use of the power I already have. I've got the handling to almost where I want it now... I'd like a bit more power now, but it's silly money for an extra 20-30bhp, so unless I get bored of the car's current power output, it's either staying as it is or I'm getting a faster car with 300bhp minimum next!
     
  4. The Doctor

    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    Agree with JoJo on this one. At the end of the day it comes down to disposable ££ and how long you want to keep the car.

    Personally, mine's a daily driver and I'm content with the power from the Stage 1 map & Badger 5 TIP. I've got some Bilstein B5 shocks to fit in the spring (will also fit adjustable rear tie bars & replace the suspension bushes and possibly the ARBs at the same time) but apart from that I don't think I'll do much else to it. The price of more power becomes ever more steep per additional BHP and I'd rather just invest in a more powerful car in the first place. Having said that, I love the car and given the condition it's in I can't see myself getting rid of it for some time yet.

    Key thing you haven't mentioned is the engine internals, which you'll need to upgrade if you're wanting to increase power further.
     
  5. dancuz

    dancuz Member

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    Hi all,

    Agree with all of the above and have thought about just buying a quicker car, but then all I'd really want is an 8P S3 and don't want / can't afford to chuck £10k at it and watch it depreciate!

    Having had a good think I reckon all I will end up doing is fit a 3" DP (I'm assuming this can be mated to standard exhaust) and a front mount intercooler. Imay then get it mapped again to take advantage of extra flow. With regards to internals, I know it's a risk not getting rods fitted, but it's a lot of money. I'm hoping a well mapped stage 2 should help preserve things.

    If I was going down altering internals I would definitely be looking at complete change to a bigger turbo....

    Jojo - do you have an FMIC?

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  6. The Doctor

    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    JoJo doesn't have a FMIC. But he does have a loose rear end. On his S3 I mean.
     
  7. dancuz

    dancuz Member

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    I shan't comment!

    Doctor just realised you are only about 40 mins from me, and I'm heading up to Nottingham tomorrow
     
  8. The Doctor

    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I noticed you're in Rutland. I work at Waltham-on-the-Wolds and am occasionally down your way either for work or for a quick blast round the reservoir on the mountain bike. Don't see many other S3 8Ls round here though for some reason.
     
  9. dancuz

    dancuz Member

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    Ah! Think I saw your car a week or so ago as I go through Waltham fairly often (am based in Melton fairly often for work). Out of interest, have you got a good recommended garage you use?
     
  10. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona Audi S3 quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

    28,882
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    Lol! Love it Paul!! As mentioned, no FMIC, I have one in the kitchen, just never got round to fitting it! For the amount of use my car gets, it's never bothered me not having one. As for the loose rear end, it take a talented driver to control it! :racer:
     
  11. The Doctor

    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    May well have been me - usually passing through Waltham at 8ish in the morning and half 5ish in the evening. Rarely come across another S3 around here though.

    I use C&R Enterprises in Nottingham for all of the servicing work - highly recommended. I try to do anything myself that needs doing in between services (e.g. sump/pick-up, catch can installation, Badger TIP, Haldex oil & filter etc), but always get C&R to give it the annual once-over, and do anything that's beyond my capability on axle stands in the driveway with the kids running about!

    Got a set of Bilstein B8s to fit in the spring, together with new top mounts, so may be asking you for some advice when the time comes.
     
  12. dancuz

    dancuz Member

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    I replaced shocks and top mounts myself a couple of months back over a weekend. Not the most fun job in the world but happy to help. Catch can is still on my "to do" list
     
  13. dancuz

    dancuz Member

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    It's started....... 3" Relentless DP and sports cat are on the way from Sam B. Next up is FMIC. Will probably fit the intercooler myself, but don't fancy the hassle of the downpipe particularly!
     

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