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Interesting Dump Valve Information For New Buyers And Owners. Servicing Etc

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by 16Klappe, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Haven't written a how to for a while, so here go's :)

    Spotted a Baileys DV on ebay for a friend the other day which was listed as faulty, took a punt on it knowing it wouldn't be too hard to fix anything due to their simplicity. Annnywho.

    I've got a Forge 007p with loads of springs, and the DV Phil has got is a Baileys DV30. A good time to do a comparison and service on the two.

    Servicing a 007p -

    It's a really simple design, you simply unscrew the top and you're in.

    Here's a quick look around the DV before I started -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Unscrew the top, it's tight but you will be able to do it by hand.

    So with the top unscrewed the spring will push the cap off like so -

    [​IMG]

    Pull the cap off and you have this -

    [​IMG]

    Remove the spring and you will just have the piston say within the valve -

    [​IMG]

    Then by pushing your finger in the bottom of the valve you will be able to push the piston out.

    It looks like this -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As you can see mine is very worn; and it's leaky. That said it is 4 years old. It is typical to see wear marks in the areas shown on mine, but use common sense to work out if it is leaking or not.

    If you look inside the valve you will see two O rings at the top of the valve, you can pull these out with your fingers -

    [​IMG]

    With the O rings removed you can clean the seats they sit in with a cloth and have a good clean out within the valve itself. When clean replace the O rings with new ones; these are in the Forge service kit along with a new piston -

    [​IMG]

    After you have refitted the O rings you can press the piston back in; make sure you grease the piston and O rings otherwise the valve will stick open. I've used lighter spray oils in the past and they dry out the seals and cause them to play up -

    [​IMG]

    You can then refit the spring, I'll touch on the different springs at the end. The springs just sit in the middle of the piston and compress against the cap of the valve -

    [​IMG]

    The top of the cap has a seat in which the spring sits, so it'll all compress up nicely -

    [​IMG]

    Twist the top cap up "tight" by hand and that's it! All serviced and ready to go.

    A common problem on 007p's which is often over looked is the wear on the lower of the piston not being even with the valve casing. This causes the valve to leak; a great way around this is to get a valve grinding dowel and some valve lapping paste and gently reface the piston in the valve.

    Other than that they're very easy to work on, and so simple that you can't really go wrong if you follow those steps.

    I'll write up the Baileys dump valve now, and then I'll do the 007p springs and my own personal opinion of the two.
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  2. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    So, the Baileys DV30.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    View from the bottom of the valve -

    [​IMG]

    And from the entrance to the valve on the side -

    [​IMG]

    The DV 30 is quite a bit different to the previously mentioned Forge; both in it's appearance, design and complexity of the valve.

    The top cap of the Baileys valve is quite a bit more important than on the 007p, and the method of securing it is also different. There are 6 allen bolts securing the top cap to the valve, which makes it a little more fiddly to undo. When you undo the allen bolts the top cap will be pushed off of the valve in the same way the Forge valve did -

    [​IMG]

    Due to the way that the Baileys valve works unforunatly I cannot show the step by step dismantling of the valve, however once you remove the top cap the spring and "piston" are loosely held within the valve.

    The piston sits at the bottom of the valve loosely, and the spring sits on top -

    [​IMG]

    This is all the parts which make up the valve displayed together -

    [​IMG]


    The under side of the top cap is similar to the Forge, in that it is just a cap with a seat for the spring -

    [​IMG]

    The piston then pushes up against the spring and fits tightly within the cap; unlike the 007p which has a large body which a large piston moves up and down in the Baileys is sealed by the top cap rather than the body of the valve -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The base of the piston is a totally flat surface, which eliminates the common problem with Forge's have where the piston does not seal.

    This shows the base of the valve body -

    [​IMG]

    The size of the "chamber" if you will is much smaller than on the 007p due to its design.

    [​IMG]

    Personally I think this is a big plus point and gets the thumbs up from me.

    Because the Baileys valve is built differently there are actually no servicable parts on it, unlike with the 007p. All you would have to do is keep it lubricated and purchase the appropriate spring.

    Also due to the design of the Baileys valve it is very tricky to get back together...Having to sandwich the piston and spring against the top cap and then feed the body of the valve on, I'm currently uploading a video of this annoying process at the moment. I'll edit when it's up.

    I took the car out for a spin and tested his DV for him after re-assembling to make sure it was fit for his car. It sounds good and holds boost very well -



    So luckily for Phil his DV which was listed on eBay as faulty is totally spot on!

    As a comparison between the two; I actually prefer Phil's Baileys DV to my 007p. They both do exactly the same job, in exactly the same way. But the Baileys to me just feels better built and I prefer the design internally.

    The only down side to the Baileys is that the lip around the inlet and outlet is very fat, so it is a right pain to fit!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  3. limbo118118
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    limbo118118 LORD

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  4. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    do a bubble test
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  5. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Ok, I'll rig up my foot pump and find a bung for the ends. :)
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  6. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    Awesome write up Jardo, im not normally lucky, but im glad you sent me the link to the DV and even happier its a good un :)

    Top stuff mate :)
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  7. jezzy
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    jezzy Member

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    get an evo valve, so much better and no maintenance.
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  8. A3 T
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    A3 T Lord Of The Rings

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    I think he meant to push the piston up with a pencil and hold your finger over the top nipple (i could be wrong).


    Good write up, I'm running the bailey dv30 valve and have been quite happy with it.

    I am now keeping a look out for a cheap 007p just to try out. Although i did get miss informed that the internals from the 007p would work in the bailey valve so went out and bought a kit i now have no use for :(
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  9. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Ahh bad luck dude :(

    No, the bubble test is putting pressure through the DV and then putting the outlet under water to see if bubbles come out :)
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  10. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    yep, wrong

    apply boost to both the side port and top port @ same time and immerse in water, and then pump in some pressure..... and watch for leaks

    WARNING: you might not like what you see
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  11. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Or just buy a new standard item which is perfectly fine and can hold 30psi and if it breaks just pay another 20quid instead of paying bigger money on something shiney. Even the most expensive valves leak from new and apparently the standard is the only one that doesnt.
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  12. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    No thanks, on a standard or stage 1 car maybe but if my Forge broke today I would buy another in an instant :)

    The ability to tune the springs to suit your setup is mainly the thing I appreciate, but mainly the fact that it is pimp. What you say is totally true, but the stock ones are just a bit **** compared to a Baileys or Forge.

    :)
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  13. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    nice little write up...

    Worth pointing out if you bought your 007p in the last 12months or so if you call forge or email them if you ask nicely they will send you a servicing kit free of charge which has the o rings and lube included. as i did this earlier this year and serviced mine.

    Also the spring kit for the 007p is readily available i got mine for about £20 off ebay (i think the 008 comes with extra springs included). Am currently running the yellow spring on my stg 2 revo software but would be interested to see what spring setups other people use.
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  14. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    except it is'nt.... MadMax DV users... get chirp on low rpm gear changes as the EVO DV needs more vacuum to lift it than the 1.8t can provide.. = non opening DV..
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  15. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    **** you say.........

    OE stays sealed at 2bar...
    OE does not leak thru its ports under bubble test

    And this makes it ****? Hmmm. You need to explain this to me.


    What needs to be tuned? If it seals at up to 2bar what would you adjust??

    If OE break they can be replaced for £30-£40

    They're not bling nor fashonable but they work better than forum folklore and marketing would have you believe.....

    Thorough testing reveals why the OE valve aint all that bad (when working)
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  16. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Saying that if i touch a bit of boost from low rpm and let off gently it makes a funny sound like i have an owl(not fluttering just a hoot lol) in the engine bay but under heavier boost or let off sharply then it sounds normally. This is with a new OEM dv btw.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
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  17. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    as part of tests done on assorted DV's, leak testing, pressure testing and minimum vacuum required to fully open them, then the EVO valve takes a full 19mm hg vacuum to open vs 1/4 of that for an OE valve as an example.. You want a DV to be able to open fast with minimum vacuum to do so..

    interesting dont you think?
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  18. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    I know exactly how good OE DV's are in terms of performance, but in the four years I have had my second hand 007p it has cost me £7.99 in servicing and £45to buy. Which is not much more than the couple of stock DV's I could have been through in the same time.

    I won't tell everyone how much Phil's Baileys was but compared to a standard item the Baileys was cheap.

    Which would you rather have in your engine bay, a nice shiny and blingy DV or a black plastic one? Whilst the stock items work great when they are working and are more than up to the job, for the price difference and the visual benefit I would personally go with an aftermarket valve every time.

    My DV has worn and leaked twice, and I have been able to service and repair it for free the first time and for £7.99 the second time; where as with a cracked or worn OE it would have been fit for the bin.

    I totally aggree with what you are saying, OE valves are more than up to the job and often better than most after market ones which most people just assume to work. But that was the idea behind this thread, to let people know how and why to check them so they don't have the issues :)
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  19. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    bling is irrelevant to function

    you said that OE are ****
    they are not

    price and bargains you may have picked up are also irrelevant

    Function my boy.. Function.

    Most people buy new valves.
    New OE vs New aftermarket - quite some price difference.

    One will likely leak, OE wont.

    Simples
    #19
  20. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    So bill, whats your views on the madmax valve? Im currently runnin one in the push pull orientation as advised by max, he said only to run the valve in pull push orientation when tracking/hard abuse.
    Like youve mentioned, ive noticed flutter/chirp on gear changes, thogt yeah that sounds cool, but now thinking about, is this symptoma of compressor stall due to the valve not opening?
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  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    simples indeed.

    If my forge valve wern't welded directly onto my charge pipe I'd be trying out a new OEM DV myself to see how it goes.

    As my forge is welded on solid, I've had to settle for lapping in the piston and fitting a shim and yellow spring, which seems to work well, but I'd still like to test an OE one some time.
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  22. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    Prawn, your more than welcome to have my OE DV, ive got the invoice from work, the DV is less than 10 months old and the car had only done about 3k on it, its yours dude :)


    Jardo has a great habbit of finding me bargains :) long may it continue, i fitted the Baileys today and love it, yes bling, but who cares, its spot on :)
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  23. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    As long as you like it Phil :)

    My DV doesn't leak, and it looks bling, and it performs as well as an OE one would within the same application. So I guess I win on all three counts. If people keep their 007p's or Baileys DV's serviced and follow my guide the same should be said for theirs too :)

    Prawn will back me up on this and potentially Phil will with his experience, but most of the time OE DV's leak terribly on standard unmodified cars and the owners don't even know it. Only people in the know like yourself and established members on the forum will ever think to look for it, which is why I think your information is a great addition to this thread. For a lot of standard car owners, or people who don't want bling in their engine bay your post coming from an established tuner will save them a fair chunk of cash and potentially hassle buying a second hand leaky valve that they think is great :)

    People buy 1.8t's and the first thing they do is want to put a dump valve on them thinking it will make them woosh more, which annoys me on so many levels...
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  24. dancuz
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    dancuz Member

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    Phil, if you want to get rid ill take your oe dv - mines just started leaking!
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  25. jezzy
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    jezzy Member

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    Danni my mad max valve works perfectly.
    maybe you have some leaks?
    heres something max himself says about the valve

    Let's say at part throttle the engine is generating just enough load to spin the turbo to make 7 psi of positive pressure. Now say you decide to let off the throttle or shift gears, you have 7 psi of positive pressure under the diaphragm plate pushing it open + whatever vacuum your car makes, sucking the diaphragm open from the top chamber.

    The valves are modified to operate at a healthy 20 Hg of vacuum. I built a tester just for that purpose and make sure every valve opreates at that vacuum (I also do a real life test to back up the bench testing by running the valves in my car for a little bit).
    Like warranty pointed out, if you have issues with the car, the valve is going to highlight them. He had to take care of all his leaks before he could succesfully run the valve. In my car, the valve always snitch and tell me if I develop a leak because of the weird noises and operation.

    You also pointed out that the response and recovery is slugish, that alone tells me something else is going on (most likely a leak). With that said, if you feel confident that the car is 100% and the valve is the problem, I'll gladly take it back and send you a new one or give you a full refund if you're just not satisfied with it[​IMG].
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  26. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    Pm me your addie and i will send it to you dude
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  27. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    Ok so to follow on from Jardo about OE DVs, i work in a VAG indy, 4 mechanics, 4 ramps, work on all models in the VAG range, busy most of the time, we keep almost every filter for the complete range on the shelf, we also stock OE common pads and discs, now due to the nature of it we also keep mk5 golf bonnet catches (cause there ****) ign switches for T4s and YES you guessed it DVs, the reason being is they are a fast ish moving item, most of the time the customer brings there car in with a fault, when you drive it with them you know the DV is fooked, and as its so easy to replace we can do it on the spot


    Back to my Baileys DV it was cheaper than an OE one from our store, it was mega cheap :)
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  28. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Strange that in 3 years working for VW I've never sold one in the workshop or over the counter lol.
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  29. A3 T
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    A3 T Lord Of The Rings

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  30. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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  31. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Really?! That's proper proper strange.

    Maybe because people just buy them off eBay or GSF? Although to be fair when I went into VW to get my clutch and flywheel bolts they had them on the shelf so I might just price check them a bit more often.
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  32. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Maybe yeah. People probably just pressume main dealers are expensive so dont bother. Eventhough i get so many people in saying oh i went to Halfords for my bits and they were so expensive and the service was useless. Never thought a main dealer would be so cheap blah blah blah.
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  33. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    yep.. it takes a lot of vacuum to open, and 1.8t does'nt produce this often hence the chirp = non opening DV, which kinda defeats the purpose of fitting it does'nt it?
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  34. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    and you've bubble tested it to confirm this yes?

    ;)
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  35. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    You test these to see that they open at 19mmhg?
    thats the issue...
    opening at a less vacuum opens them earlier...
    do your tests on an OE one and see how much less vacuum it requires to open "fully"
    MadMax DV needs much higher vacuum to open..
    #35
  36. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Well yes and no...My bubble test was a bit naff to be honest. Haha
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  37. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    indeed

    i will rest my case (for now :p )
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  38. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    jardo - I'd wager a fair bit of cash that your DV will leak slightly. The old 'push the piston up and put your thumb on the nipple' test only works on a diaphram type DV, on a forge 007P it does test the seals, to ensure that vacuum is pulling the DV open, but it doesn't test the DV's sealing against boost AT ALL. that's all done by the piston seat.

    if it's not lapped in, which yours isn't, because you havn't done it yet (I assume my paste and lapping tool are required at christmas?) it'll almost certainly leak to some degree.
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  39. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    How much cash do you want to bet that I haven't lapped it in :p I just took the O rings out and used a pole from an old toy bow and arrow (I bought it for a fancy dress night out!) as a sucker on the piston and some valve paste I have had in my toolbox for years. Seemed to work well haha.

    My test was the same as Niki posted on facebook a while back, but I couldn't find a way to seal off the inlet side of the DV to more than about 15psi. It leaks with a green spring, but with a blue spring it seems fine up to what I could test it.
    #39
  40. Mr Footlong
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    Mr Footlong Stalking Kate Beckinsale

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    I have concerns over the 007P over a new OE valve too. With the LCR, MRC steered me well clear of aftermarket valves at the power levels I am running and bet the farm on a new OE being the best all round bet. The car hasn't missed a beat so I can't argue.

    AmD are very much advocates of the 007P and are planning on fitting one of those next week instead of a new OE valve and I have to be honest, I have my doubts, be they warranted or not. I want a valve that just gets slapped on, works and doesn't require servicing etc etc. Bill, your input on this has been really useful and is really compounding my thoughts on this already.
    #40
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