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Insurance Truth & small Fibs.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by JimmyJames, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. JimmyJames
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    JimmyJames Jas.

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Chaps.

    Insurance renewal dropped through the post today and i guess its not bad but I'll websearch for cheaper later (£392 with £500 excess). Now its obviously different for us all with different risk factors but what i want to ask here is.


    1. What risks do insurance companies really need to know over a stock car and what ones make no real difference.


    2. How many of you out there are fully disclosing your bits and bobs. Thats you guys with the re-maps, coil overs,etc, obvious performance enhancements. You know the stuff insurance compaies gets antzzy about. Do you run the risk? If not disclosing where does your premium sit and if you did disclose where do you think your premium would be. p.s. I'm not with the insurance police.


    3. Does insurance company really need to know about all the OEM optional extras on a stock car and does it make a difference to your policy. I'm thinking here in my case as stock S3 with MFFSW,GSM,CRUISE,I-POD. Do these things really need disclosure? Would they increase a premium? Wouldn't they be taking the p**s if they did charge for this stuff.

    So what are you guys experience of the stuff that does make a premium rise and the ones that dont.:think:


    Jas.
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  3. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    insurance policies usually state that all modifications from manufacturers standard spec must be disclosed.

    Some require manufacturers optional extras to be listed too.

    They do this for 2 reasons. 1st to calculate your car's worth, and 2nd to calculate the risk - after all, thats exactly how your premiums are costed.
    #2
  4. Wes G
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    Wes G Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    For the last few years my insurance company just asks me the reg and get me to confirm that its the correct make\model-have never asked about things like optional extras,just if the car has been modified from orriginal-ie exhaust etc...dont think that I would tell them if I had a remap however anything visual I would tell them as its not worth the risk?:icon_thumright:
    #3
  5. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    If you dont declare any mods they CAN cancel your premium, i.e. you have a crash your not insured - not good.

    If you dont declare your factory fit option and your cars a total loss I guess they wont replace it with one that has the options fitted
    #4
  6. Moisty
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    Moisty Guest

    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Not telling them is a risk. How big a risk, that is something only the individual can answer.
    They can invalidate your inusrance if you damage your car and it is found to be modified in any way They wouldn't do that for a broken mirror but if you wrote off a £30k S3 they might be more inclined to investigate further especially if the model of car was one that was commonly modified.
    If they did cancel your insurance, they do still have to cover 3rd party risks which means if lives were invloved and possibly multi-million pound claims from that, they have to pay. BUT! they can (and probably will) come after you to try and recoup their losses.

    Tell them or don't tell them, the risk is yours. Personally I try to find a mod friendly insurance company and I am always completely open with them.

    M
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  7. Wes G
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    Wes G Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Think I`ll give them a call and check mine now...you have worried me? I would have thought they would specifically ask for those sort of details though? There are alot of people that would poss not know half of the options on there second hand car out there-people that are not petrol heads like us?:confused:
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  8. JimmyJames
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    JimmyJames Jas.

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Yeah. Totally get the risk is yours to own both to yourself and to others and insurance companies will void or cancel if claim arises.

    The one i wasn't sure on was the factory fit optional extras that have no performance bearing.
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  9. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I've had to declare them for my last 3 insurance companies. It didn't seem to make any difference to the policy price though, obviously they need to know about things like Xenons for example as the head lights are considerably more expensive to replace... I just used the online sites (confused and go compare) to get the quotes and put in the value of my car and then when I actually took out a policy they asked for the extra's.

    J.
    #8
  10. Moisty
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    Moisty Guest

    [Jan 23, 2008]
    As I said ealier, the risk is not really to others as the insurance company cannot cancel the 3rd party part of your insurance.

    M
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  11. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I think thats company dependant. I never used to get asked but for the last 3 years I have.

    J.
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  12. g-man
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    g-man Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    IMO, yes. I've told my insurance company about the various mods to my car (MSFW, cruise, parking sensors etc) because I don't want any chance that they can come back and deny a claim because I didn't inform them.

    They didn't charge any extra to the insurance for informing them. This may be different if you change wheels or uprated engine components however.

    It's your choice at the end of the day, if you had an accident and an assessor denied the claim because of non-disclosure, would you be able to replace the car?

    Something to think about.

    G-man
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  13. Wes G
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    Wes G Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Just spoken to my insurers (direct line) and I explained the situation and tried to real off my list of options ie leather,sat nav, arm rest,auto lights\wipers etc and she was not interested and told me in the event off a total loss,if those options are with the car from new and on the original order\invoice (weather you have that or not) then they are covered,in the event or insuring a new car then they ask about all of your options untill the vehicle goes onto there main frame???If however you have added options for example cruise control after the reg date then you would need to declare it, I can only hope she is right? took her name for my records anyway.:icon_thumright: :happy:
    #12
  14. JimmyJames
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    JimmyJames Jas.

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Ok at least in my renewal coming up I'm not in the mod category over stock but its better to at least list the optional extras if nothing more than for the cost factor of replacment.

    Thanks for replies chaps.
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  15. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Oh and not sure if you guys use gocompare.com and confused.com but confused is cheaper for the wifes insurance and gocompare.com is better for mine - go figure!

    J.
    #14
  16. Wes G
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    Wes G Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    MB have your cars all been brand new?
    #15
  17. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    On standard policies you don't have to disclose factory fitted options, in the event of a claim most companies only cover the cost of the basic car. However I chose to go down the route of a modifed policy with greenlight as I intend to modify the car, they made a not of all factory fitted options and would take these into account in the event of a claim, they were also as competitive as the main insurers with all modifications disclosed. If you intend to modify your can go down the modifed policy route, its not worth it if things go wrong. Losing your car because of insurance is one thing, being suied by someone as you ran over them with an uninsured car.
    #16
  18. rich164h
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    rich164h Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    There should be no need to declare factory fitted options (either fitted at the time of build or afterwards), but as said above some companies do ask, also it doesn't hurt to tell them as it shouldn't affect your premium at all. You can buy these thing when your car is delivered new so in essense your car is not different from the manufacturers spec (i.e. all the parts were designed by the manufacturer to go on it. Also why should you pay more than someone else with an identical just because you didn't tick the same boxes when new?

    As for after market 3rd party modifications, yes you should declare them all. Even if they don't ask you on the phone, it will be in the small print of the documents that they will send you that you are effectively signed up to follow.

    There is a bit of a grey area though when it comes to consumable items. You shouldn't have to declare that you're put in different oil, or spark plugs, or tyres (as long as the speed rating is ok) etc but what about things like uprated brake pads? for something like this you're probably better off mentioning to them.

    Remember they are commerical companies and will try to get out of paying if at all possible. Yes the 3rd party insurance remains intact, but they will come after you if the amount they've had to pay out is a large sum of money. A friend of mine span his car into a wall and some ornate metal gates belonging to one of the university colleges in Cambridge as well as a parked car. The bill came to close to £100k and he was taken to court to recover their costs. He ended up losing his house because of it.

    For me, it's a no brainer really. if you mod your car declare them. The insurance premiums may not go up by much (my old Vauxhall VXR220 was up at 252BHP from 220BHP as standard - remap, exhaust, induction etc, with some cosmetic changes as well and the premium only went up by ~£50. If you're not going to declare them then there's not really any point in paying for fully comp insurance, or at the very least by paying the extra you are taking the chance that you won't get found out. For such a small increase in premium it's not worth the risk.

    Rich

    ps. Clearly if you're 17 year old with 11 points and no NCD living in a rough area then it might be more that £50! but for my situation (I was 27 when I had the VXR220 with 6 years NCD and 3 points in a inner city area), I only had to pay this amount.
    #17
  19. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    For the last 8 years yes.

    J.
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  20. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Admiral and Elephent now ask for any factory fitted options above the base spec of the car. They then go on to tell you that these options are now not covered by your insurance, the lady did say to me though that it wasnt really things like the lights and leather they dont cover but items like different brakes and engine chips wouldnt be replaced. My xenon lights became "rally spot lights" and the leather interior was clased as "interior modifications".
    #19
  21. rich164h
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    rich164h Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    That's just a stupid insurance system with a clueless sales person. Xenon and rally lights are two completely different things, and as for leather, what has been "modified" if the manufacturer made it that way. She has effectively given you a policy that doesn't represent your car!

    Admiral and Elephant have started being a bit silly when it comes to mods unfortunatley and it does really depend on who you end up speaking to. I bet if you call them back and get another quote you will end up with a totally different opinion.

    Best to walk away and find a different insurance company, or at least one that is able to give you a policy that matches your car.
    #20
  22. RobB
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    RobB Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Following up from Dandle, I moved from Admiral last March (same company as Elephant, Bell Direct and Diamond) as they refuse to cover any optional extras (even factory fitted at new). I have a letter from them to confirm this as I complained that I had informed them of the extras (all non performance related - stuff like CD changer, parking sensors, MFSW, Xenons etc). They have a standard parts clause in their policy notes. So in essence, if your car was a write off, they would only provide a valuation based on the standard car and not provide any additional value due to the extras you may have fitted.

    I moved to Privilege and I have notified them of the extras and they confirm that they cover them if notified. Given that extras can add £000s to the value of the standard car, it is no surprise that most demand you inform them. However, I would be very surprised if an insurance company refused your claim of say hitting another car becuase you hadn't informed them of your rear parking sensors for example as this would have no bearing on the event. I suppose they would have a stronger case if you had a chipped car with non standard wheels though.

    Finally, they are providing cover on the basis of the information you provide. The guff you get with terms and conditions always says that it is your responsibility to inform them of anything you think might be a material change to the standard spec and if in doubt to ask. So the onus is on you to be honest or take the risk.
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  23. mrsteve
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    mrsteve Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    so just by coincidence i phoned up my insurance company to ask about the increase in premium if i were to buy an s3, they said £55, which considering i have since turned 25, is fine, however, if i have any optional extras fitted, including an arm rest the class it as a modded vehicle and wont cover me. a 95 quid arm rest, i asked ok would you replace the vehicle excpet the arm rest, they say it would void my policy!

    so do i change insurance companies and loose the last 10 months of no claims, or what? ARGH :/

    take into consideration to get a decent price for my car i need to sell it before it is another year old which obviously directly coincides with my insurance renewal.

    what a joke,
    #22
  24. rich164h
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    rich164h Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    mrsteve,
    That's really odd, I'm with privilege now and have been many times with modified cars and I've always had no problems at all. Are they now saying they don't cover modified cars at all? or just you personally with a modified S3?

    To be honest if they up your premium because of an arm rest it won't be very much just for the last 2 months of your policy so pay it (to be able to claim the full years NCD), then go elsewhere.
    #23
  25. JimmyJames
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    JimmyJames Jas.

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    From your posts I'm feeling what i was thinking and insurance companies are inconsistent here on mods and non mods.

    As i initally said at what point does factory fit non performance add ons really make a difference to your premium?
    #24
  26. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I guess a lot of it comes down to the cost of repairs. A bumper with parking sensors is going to be dearer than one without, xenon headlights must be at leat twice, if not 3 times the price of standard headlights. Curatin airbags that are optional would obviously boost up the price of a repair...

    J.
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  27. mrsteve
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    mrsteve Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    im actually with NIG through kwikfit, originally i declared everything i had listed in optional extras for the new car which comes to about 2.1kish on top of car, so i thought, fair enough maybe they dont like the amount of extras.

    apparently they dont like any, speccing it with an arm rest on the web and then phoning up to confirm voided the policy...

    looks like i will have to change and forgo the extra years no claims, an i only have 2
    #26
  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I think the only time factory-fitted options come into the equation is they are expensive options, which increase the total replacement value of the car. Most companies will replace the car with a new one within the first 12 months and they may want to charge a little extra to cover some options.

    The options on my car car to £2,830. If it had other options for example, Audi exclusive paint finish @£1585, Front Sports seats in with Nappa leather @ £1565, DVD Sat-Nav @ £2175, multi-function steering wheel @£400, black cloth headlining @ £195, Open-sky roof @1050, DVD rear seat entertainment pack @ £735 and 7.5Jx18 20-spoke 2 piece alloys @ £1600. This would add up to a total of £2830 + £9275 = £12,105. This would be on a car with a basic price of £19665 + £1400 for DSG and £2000 for the SE pack = £23,065. So the options could add 50% extra to the cost of the replacement car.

    It also means, if the options are declared when the insurance is taken out, then no one car say, if their car is stolen, that it was fitted with an option that it was not.
    #27
  29. rich164h
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    rich164h Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Sorry I confused two posts and thought you were with Privilege when actually it was someone else that mentioned them.

    This is just bizarre now. How many cars leave the factory without any options fitted? I'd bet almost none. So who the hell is NIG actually insuring? Presumably 99.99% of their customers are therefore driving cars with invalid policies. Remember if they are taking it to that extreme they are talking about things like metallic paint, or mats as well.

    There has to be a level of common sense applied somewhere. Lets imagine that I went out an bought a 1985 Ford Escort. How am I supposed to know if the passenger sunvisor, or the cigarette lighter for example were on the options list at that time and therefore should be declared? A bloody great aftermarket chav wing on the back, or a nitros kit fair enough, but not something like that.
    #28
  30. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I didnt read all the posts but this question regarding giving details of all your options, isnt this covered by:

    A: Stating the Car model (i.e S3)

    then:

    B: Stating the approx value of the car (Say 27k base or 34k(if it were fully loaded))
    #29
  31. 3.2 Ju
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    3.2 Ju Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    But what if you buy your cars second hand, how would you know if the options were fitted at new or after. My car has the full Votex kit which as far as I know was fitted from new, but how would I really be expected to know?
    I'm also with Privelege at the moment but won't be next year as the extra money and increased excess for my 19's is an insult!
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  32. 3.2 Ju
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    3.2 Ju Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    The value you put on the car when you take out the insurance has no bearing on what they would pay out incase of a claim. They will only pay out market value if your lucky!!
    #31
  33. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    In a lot of cases that is generally enough. I have never had to give more than that for any of my cars. But some companies, particularly ones offer a very keen premium price, want to know more.

    In most cases, if a new car is stolen within 12 months, and the insurance company are going to replace it rather than pay out the market value, they will want to see a copy of the original purchase invoice. If you did not have it, I'm sure the suppying dealer could let you have a copy.
    #32
  34. SiGainey
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    SiGainey Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Absolutely! There is no way for the average joe who buys a car to know if cruise was standard on the Sport or SE models so if they void'ed your insurance for the likes of an arm rest, 99% of the population would be uninsured because the person who bought the car originally wouldn't know what were extras and what were not. It's unreasonable to expect someone to do so much digging so I think that the insurance will simply not replace it.

    This worries me though, the prevelance of remaps is quite common in the market today and I've heard that Audi dealers do this, but I bet they dont declare it to you and how are you meant to know. Remember, this is an average joe who know's that they've bought a diesel Audi....
    #33
  35. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    I haven't declared any options on my car. I asked about it and they said they are only bothered about non standard things like exhaust systems, bodykits, wheels etc.
    #34
  36. g-man
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    g-man Member

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Any Audi dealer will be able to print out a list of ALL the items your car came with from the factory. You used to be able to do this yourself if you registered your car with "My Audi" but that doesn't appear to be available any more, unless it's hidden on the .co.uk website.

    G-man
    #35
  37. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 23, 2008]
    Yes that's true for a second hand car, but they don't offer the full replacement option with a second hand one, unless of course it's less than 12 months old. If anyone with a brand new car doesn't know what options it's fitted with then they should!

    It is possible to tell what options were fitted to any new Audi by looking at the sticker inside the front cover of the service book or under the cover in the luggage compartment. There are a series of 3 digit codes starting on line 7 (after the paint and trim codes). Each code refers to something fitted to that particular car.

    If anyone is interested I have an almost complete list of what all the codes mean.
    #36
  38. mrsteve
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    mrsteve Member

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    [Jan 24, 2008]
    i wouldnt of known that though, my car now i brought second hand, if im honest i knew reverse sensors and the particular 18's i have arnt standard but i didnt declare it because in my eyes it it taken into account of the total value of the car.

    the guy on the phone was asking for the full value of the car, ie 28k and then how much of that was extras, about 2.2k,

    bizarrely NIG cover an enormous amount of people, im going to see if i can contact them directly (probably not) and i will let you know.

    thanks
    #37
  39. L33TAY
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    L33TAY Member

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    [Jan 24, 2008]
    I did a requote with only suspension alterations on the S3 I will be taking delivery of, price went from £454 to £1167.

    So, I will not be telling them, it is a risk i know, but would they really be able to tell.
    Suppose if the car was a total loss/payout they would dig a bit further??

    Lee
    #38
  40. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 24, 2008]
    If any of you are buying from new, and financing the vehicle, if the car is nicked you will get a market value of your car. This is the whole reason why GAP insurance is around. Get it and GAP will make the difference up, returning the money to the invoice price (regardless of the options etc..) You can shop about for GAP these days, and over the 3 years it isnt too bad price wise
    #39
  41. steveg9
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    steveg9 Member

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    [Jan 24, 2008]
    the guy at my broker has confirmed that it should be like for like. His S Line is with th esame co. as my A3!
    #40

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