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In a perfect scenario "brake squeal" poll solution

Discussion in 'RS3 Forum' started by elton121272, Feb 23, 2013.

?

What would you do.......give horrendous brake squeal?

Poll closed Jun 3, 2013.
  1. Full refund

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Replacement vehicle

    40.0%
  3. Compensation

    60.0%
  1. elton121272
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    elton121272 Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    Hi All,

    Not sure how to do an online poll technically so if a moderator can help great ;-)

    If not i am curious to the following Q:

    To all us loyal RS3 owners who love the vehicle for its uniqueness - as it has really no direct competitors - and it ticks the boxes on: power, handling, family, 5 door, boot space, insurance, fuel, looks, pricing, etc etc......

    We really have one major and frustrating disappointment in ownership which is the infuriating brake squeal.

    We persevere - honestly - only because all the other boxes are ticked. Ask yourself - would you accept the same on a Fiat Arbath or a an Aston DB......we all know the answer would be no - so why do we? I suspect it's because we are the niche in audi's stable that have a need for all of the above.

    So my hypothetical - but potentially soon to be real Q is ...... And please take time to consider your thoughts....

    Given everyone who has experienced the same ownership of brake squeal as me but equally have engaged an unusual and overwhelming love for such a unique and distinct piece of automotive machinery, given the choice SAY AFTER 10 months of ownership would you:

    (assuming it was offered)

    1. Take a full refund for what you paid for the car and walk away to do whatever you wanted (including buying a second hand one).
    2. Would you accept a full replacement based on you cars rejection, this renewing warranty, wear and tear, etc.
    3. Settle for a 'reasonable' but 'exceptional' offer of compensation - if you opt for this option, please state your expectations.

    As I say, this is purely a hypothetical Q, to gauge an impartial but credible, metered response - independently we are prepared to wait, but collectively we should exercise our rights of the 1979 act for rejection to obtain a fair, just, fair and amicable compensation under the sale of goods act.

    cheers,
    #1
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  3. elton121272
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    elton121272 Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    Personally I'd go for compo..... If you buy a tv and its not right, you get a replacement and if you don't you can usually and easily negotiate 10-30% discount to keep the model - why not with a car, especially when they accept and admit fault but can't correct from an early stage?

    Audi UK tell me it's policy that they don't offer any financial compensation - - why not - as its what I would say too if I was the MD - but we could all collectively chip in financially - for discussion off line - and present a much stronger argument to Audi UK, the brand and a claim which ultimately could be lodged to reach national press exposure level.....even if it fails it would be less than £100 and the cost per owner would be ten fold to Audi's customer satisfaction, loyalty and for the moment UK credibility.

    Furthermore, i've got written correspondence from Audi UK who have acknowledged listening to my audio file in Nov and feedback was "they could not drive a car with that noise" - recorded on my iPhone with time and date - i have for 4 months since. I persevered for an official note to acknowledge that comment, which is legally credible to all of us that have registered complaint.

    Therefore please think about what you want before answering above........
    #2
  4. RYes3
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    RYes3 Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    What a great post!

    Firstly, I have no idea what car I would want other than the RS3.. We are talking R8 if I am being honest!

    Yes, I would take a full refund, but I would probably buy another one in the hope the brakes didn't squeal.. really I would!

    Other than that I would put up with it! The car is immense! It makes the guy's in the Focus RS's look amateur and in my book that's a good thing :)
    #3
  5. RYes3
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    RYes3 Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    I will add that I have been royally screwed over by Audi.. I decided not to let this dim my view of the car though (not saying you did). Honestly, those guy's have had my pants down! That god damn RS3 made me ignore it though!
    #4
  6. P_G
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    P_G Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    Whilst in theory your question has its merits in reality there is little point to it because you are very unlikely as you have already found out to get any of the three options.

    Whilst you quote retail consumer rights here's another way of looking at it. If you buy your house with a survey and then a pipe bursts 6-60 months into ownership, do you ask the previous owners for your money back and move out? No. And let's face it, a car is invariably the second highest purchase anyone will make after a house so why should it be any different?

    As I said in another post too many people place faith in Audi UK to provide solutions to an Audi GmbH product and expect too much of technicians. Let's be straight, they are technicians and not mechanics for a reason. Not just to sound better so they can charge you more, but because most of them whilst they could be mechanics are limited in what they can do either by a/ their technical abiliity but more likely b) what money the franchise is prepared to pay out and partially recover to rectify your issue.

    Example; a couple of years ago I had modified my RS4's manifold which had meant taking the core plugs out. They were put back in and the car worked fine until one day the car develope a massive misfire. I managed to get it to Audi as it was a mile or so away fortunately at the time and upon inspection they confirmed a core plug had gone missing. At the time they could not determine whether the engine had ingested it or it had been blown out. Their solution: new IM (not a new core plug because Audi don't just do core plugs) and possibly a new engine after they had opened it up to inspect. Cost to open it up and properly diagnose (by Audi franchise standards) was 4 hours and £500, new IM part cost £1200, new engine, well let's not go there.

    So instead I hired a flatbed to pick the car up, took it to Revolution who immediately borescoped the engine (something Audi couldn't do), found no damage to cylinder 1 wall, manifold or the piston from where the core plug had come from or any of the other cylinders. They has the manifold off in 30 minutes, not 4 hours, I had a new set of core plugs machined by AAS at a cost of £10 for 16 and a total of £100 later and two hours labour the car was fixed vs. potentially £3k for just the manifold to be fitted or £10k + labour for an engine from Audi. And this is not the first time I have had such issues with Audi and found a solution that works which costs a fraction of what they want.

    Audi UK franchise has its limitations in that it is good for servicing to maintain your warranty should something major happen, accept that and it being mutually exclusive from the product you drive which in reality is supplied by someone else. Brake squeel is not a major issue like an engine being munched and everything on a car is built to a budget which can be improved upon.

    For the time you spend talking about this on a forum, asking Audi to do something about it, booking the car in, taking it to the garage in your time, them having it, collecting it from them again in your time, getting frustrated with them when you find it isn't fixed you could have bought yourself some shims and had them fitted elsewhere for £60 inc. part costs, bought different pads and had them fitted which would cost £1-200 or worst cars new discs and pads.

    I charge my clients £75-100 per hour for my time and the way I look at it is the time I would spend arguing this with Audi or taking it to them not to get an appropriate fix is invariably 3-6 hours of my time so to spend the equivalent of less then 2 hours to have an non OEM fix is a no brainer.
    #5
    monkeyboy_marcus likes this.
  7. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 23, 2013]
    An additional 2-years FREE servicing by an independent non-Audi 'technician' garage...

    As there isn't another road-going machine available that I'd change mine for!


    The RS3 is a great car being spoiled by incompetents...
    #6
  8. elton121272
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    elton121272 Member

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    [Feb 24, 2013]
    Hi P_G,

    Remember I started this thread off as "hypothetical".........in terms of my Q, the least you could do is provide a hypothetical answer ;-)

    I take your point about buying a house, but you missed a key point in your consideration - we are not comparing apples to apples if you are taking your burst pipe up with the previous owner as your 'cat & mouse' would then be second hand and not out the wrapper like our RS3's.

    Taking your point though in context mate - if you buy a new house from a reputable builder and the pipes go burst......if its down to your negligence then fair enough it's your problem.... but if its down to the builder then surely you would have a claim without fail.....(NHBC = warranty) particularly if it brought your ceiling in a wrecked your RS3 whilst it was purring and watching the F1 in the garage ;-)

    As you say, a car is potentially the second biggest purchase in ones life so all the more reason to demonsatrate unsatisfaction - many have quoted quality assurance under the sale of goods act and lets face it we should be even more critical and on the side of the consumer when it comes to a fault - no matter how consmetic or audible - as for a £40k plus car its just not right or acceptable to me. I think we have enough witnesses on here, should any 'case' go the full distance.

    I will hopefully be in a position to share my conclusions with Audi UK soon........

    Reading on in your post, like many owners on here, I also agree with your comments on time vs money when dealing with Audi - but let's face it, this is much more than that and at the very least surely its more about principal ...it is for me. If we all thought about: what the hell I earn more per hour than the consideration of remaining independent; winning an argument; protecting the boundaries of society; considering others in fear of propaganda accusations......where would that leave us......particularly if we don't have your funds........as you can see us scots are more about "you can take our lives......." rather than conforming to a "Conservative's" view of "f@ck the pheasants......" ;-)

    seriously though, my apologies if this reply sends an email to your work email address as I know how frustrating this can be ;-) ......particularly when you are with a client paying £75-£100.....wooossaahhhh ;-). Quote from one of your previous posts bruv "forums thrive on opinions on subject material, not personal slander or people telling people what they emotively should and should not do" so I ask you - what would your next action be if hypothetically your brakes were doing your brains and you could afford to fix the issue and Audi said all was well?

    dont get me wrong - I massively appreciate your perspective, im just trying to keep the remainder of the readers in a view of being impartial and in perspective ;-)

    As for your view that forums "tend to promote the worst in cars and not the best" - again I agree generally but not on this niche RS3 section.

    We are enthusiasts who take pride in every comment and statement - good or bad - if you consider and I quote you "10% of 6-700 RS3 owners" as being a startup of propaganda I would suggest that for every 'brake squeal' owner registered on this forum there is indeed a handful of owners unaware of this forum......so I would suggest perspective is required, as those complaining are all consistent with one thing - brake squeal and its simply just NOT ACCEPTABLE ;-)
    #7
  9. Mr_Freeze
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    Mr_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 24, 2013]
    Hi Guys,
    I'm a new proud owner of a second user RS3 and new to the forum so forgive me if i speak out of turn, but surely there should be a 4th option on the poll?

    Q4. Audi come up with a fix and roll out to all owners and we all live happily ever after.

    I've only driven mine once on the way back from the dealers, a 2+ hour drive, but unfortunately i have realised mine does the same :(
    #8
  10. P_G
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    P_G Member

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    [Feb 24, 2013]
    Sorry Elton we'll have to agree to disagree. Disappointing too that you try to discredit me with a select few posts of those that I have made to make your post and assertions creditworthy as I have done nothing to discredit you; rather suggested your theoretial debate is not relevant. As for 'my funds', I hardly call £18 plus possibly an hour's labour for those unlike 45 btvc who can't DIY bank busting and trifling compared to having to in some cases take time off to take the car to Audi let alone cost of fuel etc.

    Principles are great but if misguided or unrealistic what use are they. From experience of buying Audi's for the last 20 years there are some issues that will get air time with Audi and some that won't. This one won't because they have already said they are looking at a fix. They are not obliged to do any more. And they won't be rushed. If you don't like it, move brand, that is consumer choice. If you like your car then try and get Audi to fix it, if they don't fix it somewhere else or DIY. If that all fails then you have a case for rejection. But ultimately the number of complaints they get on brake squeal on an RS3, S4, TTRS compared to how many cars they sell? You would have to have a huge number of buyers leave before something happens, look at Mercedes and their build quality saga.

    And as for how many owners there are on here, it does not represent a statistical section of the RS3 owners and as such Audi will not consider it unless they want to. It's not my rules, it's theirs; I've just been on the receiving end of them often enough to know when something is not worth debating to death and this is one of them. RS6 and RS4 DRC issues are examples.

    There is a temporary fix out there courtesy of one our the forum members for those that cannot wait until a permanent fix that is supposedly on the way. If that doesn't work then ask your question. Until then......
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
    #9

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