Immobiliser/ECU Issues - help!

[[Dave B]]

Hi all,

Went to start the car this evening and it started but immediately cut out Checked for fault codes and found these:


18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
P1650 - 35-00 - -
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 - -

The DIS, needles, and cluster lights don't illuminate. The ECL and handbrake lights come on but not the DIS or needle illumination?

Prior to starting the car I'd been changing a piece of fuel hose that runs to the rail as it was perishing. Could I have dislodged something? I did spill a little fuel when changing the hose but only a very small amount. I've checked and there's still fuel at the rail (removed the FPR).

I checked the fuses on the battery and they look fine. Checked two of the fuses in the cabin for the instrument cluster and they look intact. What am I missing?

Cheers,
Dave.

 

[[Dave B]]

Any thoughts?

 

[Westy]

Can you clear the codes, lock the car, open it, then try to start it again.

Also try your spare key (if you have one) as they contain a micro chip that's coded to you imo.

 

[[Dave B]]

Thanks Westy, tried the spare key and the lock re-open sequence and still no joy :-(

 

[Westy]

Thanks Westy, tried the spare key and the lock re-open sequence and still no joy :-(

Hmm very strange. What does it suggest on the Ross-tech wiki with regards to the error codes?

 

[[Dave B]]

Fuses, fubared cluster or a dodgy connection between the ECU and cluster. Don't fancy pulling the cluster and ECU out so was hoping for an easier fix...

 

[hades-]

18058/P1650/005712 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster [h=4]Possible Symptoms[/h]

• Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON

[h=4]Possible Causes[/h]

• Fuse(s) faulty
• Databus Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Instrument Cluster (J285) faulty
• Instrument Cluster (J285) faulty

[h=4]Possible Solutions[/h]

• Check Fuse(s)
• Check Databus Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Instrument Cluster (J285)
• Check/Replace Instrument Cluster (J285)
  • Check Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)

17978/P1570/005488 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer [h=4]Possible Symptoms[/h]

• Engine starting but stalling immediately

[h=4]Possible Causes[/h]

• Key(s) not matched
• Instrument Cluster not matched
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) not matched
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Power Supply faulty

[h=4]Possible Solutions[/h]

• Check for Fault Codes in Immobilizer itself (part of Instrument Cluster in many cars, but separate Immobilizer Control Module in some)
• Check Immobilizer Measuring Values (usually in Instrument Cluster OR Immobilizer Control Module)
• Match Key(s)/Instrument Cluster/Engine Control Unit (ECU)
• Check Engine Control Unit (ECU) Power Supply (Relay)

[h=4]Special Notes[/h]

• In case of Engine Starting Issues please make sure that you are really experience an Immobilizer related Problem! Even if the Immobilizer engages, the Engine will still start fine but cut out after 2-3 Seconds. If you are NOT experiencing this behavior (e.g. Engine doesn't start at all) your Problem is very likely NOT Immobilizer related.
• May be stored in Combination with 01176 - Key: Signal too Low in Immobilizer Control Module.
• If no other immobilizer related fault codes are stored and the immobilizer related meas. blocks are fine except Engine Start not allowed, in rare occasions it helps to try cold-booting the car. Remove both battery cables from the battery. Short the battery cables together (away from the battery) for about 15 seconds. Reconnect the battery. (Example)
• Low battery voltage (including a faulty battery) may cause Immobilizer system malfunctions and testing should be done only with a known good battery installed.

 

[hades-]

did you short it out at all with a spanner ect
im sure theres more fuses near the ecu
looks like you have blown one or two

 

[[Dave B]]

Not that I'm aware of, are there fuses other than those on the battery and in the cabin near the drivers door?

 

[Westy]

Not that I know of. Have you checked the manual for fuse numbers? Start with the fuses definitely.

Does the little yellow key icon show up when you turn the ignition on (without turning on the engine)? This icon should show up then disappear after 3 seconds. If it does then it means it's recognising that the key micro chip matches the imo.

 

[[Dave B]]

Have checked the fuses detailed on the sticker on the inside of the cover but they look fine. Immob light doesn't come on and I can't access that module in VCDS. There is a new noise coming from under the steering column, sounds like an electrical ticking noise? Are there any relays under there that could be involved?

 

[Westy]

Have checked the fuses detailed on the sticker on the inside of the cover but they look fine. Immob light doesn't come on and I can't access that module in VCDS. There is a new noise coming from under the steering column, sounds like an electrical ticking noise? Are there any relays under there that could be involved?

I've had a clicking from around the ignition area but on mine it's caused by a dodgy door switch and it's the interior lights that are causing the relay to click.

If you're not getting the yellow key or able to access that module it doesn't sound good mate.

Have you true disconnecting the battery in case it might reset everything? Might need to leave it disconnected over night.

 

[[Dave B]]

I'll try disconnecting it overnight. If that doesn't work then it seems the clocks might have to come out

 

[hades-]

with the problems your haveing
if clearing codes and battery off wont work
id say you looking at a new or s/h ecu or clocks

 

[Westy]

I'll try disconnecting it overnight. If that doesn't work then it seems the clocks might have to come out

Cluster is easy to get out mate.

Might be worth sending a PM to ScottB5 too as he knows a fair bit about cluster coding and immobilisers.

 

[g60leigh]

Message @udi a3 too

 

[@udi A3]

Check measuring block 125 in the ecu module and confirm a good connection to cluster.
If you cant read ecu with cluster in remove it and try to read it again.
Is the car petrol or desel?

 

[[Dave B]]

Thanks for the help guys. Car is a 2003 Audi S3. It still has the battery unplugged, I'll plug it in tonight and see what happens. If it still won't talk I'll pull the cluster out and update.....

 

[[Dave B]]

Reconnected the battery tonight and the cluster came back alive and the car started first time! The time and date had reset, so I corrected them, turned off the ignition and turned it back on again and everything came back fine....weird.

 

[Westy]

Reconnected the battery tonight and the cluster came back alive and the car started first time! The time and date had reset, so I corrected them, turned off the ignition and turned it back on again and everything came back fine....weird.

That is very strange indeed. Good job the old reboot trick worked. Seems to work on most stuff! Computers, phones, cars..... even my old boiler for the central heating started working after a switch off and on

 

[peon92]

Hello
I suppose that I have identical problem. Yesterday I tried to turn on engine but after turning ignition on cluster lights illuminated very thinly. Engine started but died after two or three seconds. VCDS showed P1570 and P1650 faults and I couldn't connect to Kombi. How long did You switch off battery? Did this problem return again?