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I need to get a little more from my set up... Vag V Jap !

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by S3 Paul, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    I will try and log those 2 blocks soon bill.
    Anything else show if my set ups on the limit??
    #41
  2. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    yea, getting beaten by a civic :p
    #42
    morgan306 likes this.
  3. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    LOL!!! nice one
    #43
  4. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    HA FECKING HA
    Alot of these lads are serious about power and track time.
    I just fancy a little more. Unlike most i have alot of things to spend my money on... not just my car
    #44
  5. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Got to be a b5 tip mate, all you can do is log the blocks to see if you're maxing the injectors out, and if you're not, get a badger 5 tip on there ASAP then log again
    #45
  6. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Maxing a hybrid out consists of (currently) a relentless exhaust mani, large port head, B5 TIP, WMI and 550cc injectors with mapping to suit... thats essentially it on the hardware you possess.. that should (subjectively) net you 320/330hp... if you want/need more power beyond that its BT time or a car with more power to start with...

    <tuffty/>
    #46
  7. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    :Flush:
    #47
  8. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    Mr Prawn...
    I do hope you took my post in jest?
    Anyway... logging it is then.
    What injectors do i need to look into if i need them? not just size??
    Fitment? Low or high impedence??? no idea with this tbh
    #48
  9. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    These...
    Bosch 52LB / 550cc Hi Impedance Injector

    And change back to a 3bar FPR when done... :)

    <tuffty/>
    #49
  10. actualeddie
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    actualeddie Member

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    Reckon you could take them on a circuit?
    #50
  11. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Of course sir :) I just thought I'd give a helpful reply rather than continuing to be annoying!

    I know money is the big factor here, you've spent your lot, so I understand you not wanting to go back for 'round 2' so to speak!

    I think the cheapest way to move it forward is logging, then a b5 tip for sure. To go into the whole lot, with Mani, WMI, injectors, and a map, you won't get any change from a grand, more like £1200 + labour for fitting if you got someone to do it for you!
    #51
  12. Benjiman46
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    Benjiman46 R-Tech Terrorist

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    The best way to beat a turbo'd civic with an S3 is to sell the S3 and buy a turbo'd civic..

    An S3 is designed to be comfortable, a nice place to be, with a nice bit of speed.. A civic is just built for speed and they aren't comfortable at all, with horrible interiors but can be lightened to crisp packet weight..

    I'd sooner have an S3 any day... Because I do quite alot of motorway miles and cant be arsed with the constant HORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR drone of a (would have to be to make it worth while) turbo'd civic.

    Stick with the S3, get a FMIC, B5 TIP, Bigger injectors, forged rods, high flow fuel pump and hybrid turbo kit and you'll never look back (and your civic chums won't know whats hit them lol)
    #52
  13. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    he already has these.
    the first hybrid turbo build that JBS did back in the stoneage
    #53
  14. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    I'd advise getting it to r tech or bill for a check up, to see what is running on there rollers and what else you will need. Possibly a new map aswell
    #54
  15. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    I think i must have worded things a little wrongly...
    Yes i had a blast against A civic Turbo and lost by a whisker . I just wondered if the whisker in question could be reclaimed with a little work. YES im aware they are 2 different car and in very diffrent states of trim. Im never going to strip the seats out or remove my uprated stereo equipment for that matter. Its my everyday car so spending massive amounts just isnt justified at the moment. I was loooking/hoping for "bolt on" toys to push forward a little.
    I Have a stripped out car that i get stick about from the mrs. That makes decent power but its not good in traffic... uses silly amounts of fuel and doesnt get used so much when the weather is this bad...
    #55
  16. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    I'm afraid your £250 budget just wont get you what you want! You already have more airflow then is recommended on standard injectors so they are near to being maxed out, or possible ARE maxed out. So you cant really afford to get an exhaust manifold or anything that will increase airflow any more or you'll end up running mega lean.

    Get yourself a set of 550cc injectors for £200ish then spend the remaining £50 and a little bit more to get a tuner to adjust your map for the new injectors and you should see some power gains.
    #56
  17. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    ignore westy :p Changing injectors and nothing else won't gain you a thing.

    Spend your money on Bills new 80mm TIP that's coming out, I got the point of the thread totally.

    The answer is, for more power with minimal outlay, a new TIP is the way forward.
    #57
  18. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    All a new TIP will do is free up more airflow which is not going to help fuelling on standard injectors! I know, as i've maxed out standard injectors on a normal K04 turbo :faint:

    Bigger injectors and getting the map sorted is far more important IMO. I can post pics of my cracked turbo, exhaust manifold, and cylinder head if you want? All those were caused by a lean map.
    #58
  19. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    But surely if pauls already maxing out his injectors, adding any performance based mod wont make a difference!
    #59
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree with westy here.

    Bolting on a TIP and flowing 20hp's worth of additional air, without the fuelling to match because the injectors are flat out already, will only cause problems.

    Given your budget, some VXR 470cc's might be an alternative option, as they can be had new for just over £100.

    You might even get away with a unisettings tweak for now to correct the additional flow of the VXR injectors, and a badger 5 TIP to round things off.

    You'll definitely want it checked out on a rolling road whatever you do though.
    #60
  21. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    logs as said earlier (with no reply) would confirm what the fueling situation is currently.
    4bar fpr cheapest option to get 15% more out of them.
    #61
  22. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    we're all just wildly assuming he's maxed out his injectors already though arn't we? or at least you guys are. I am not.

    I suggested he log duty cycle (on times vs RPM I think) to see if they're maxed out, and if they're not to add a high flow TIP.

    It's said that going from 3 to 4 bar on the FPR gives an additional 15% of flow, which would take the standard injectors from 380cc at 3 bar, to 437cc at 4 bar.

    My 440cc injectors at 3 bar (in theory the same flow as S3 injectors at 4 bar) have fuelled 329bhp on my car, and are currently fuelling 300bhp just fine with LOADS of headroom left in the duty cycles.

    Without logs, it's a fail to assume anything, so back to Pauls original question, providing his injectors are not currently maxed out, the best and cheapest way for him to gain more power would be a high flow TIP, as was said long ago!
    #62
  23. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    paul IS running a 4bar reg, so based on what you've accomplished on 440s prawn, paul should be ok to put a b5 TIP on and it fuel it ok.
    obv logging before and after, rather than just assuming and doing it without care
    #63
  24. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    yup, those are my thoughts Karl, but as Bill said long ago, log it, check it, if all is well, fit B5 TIP, and log again to be sure it's safe, then go and enjoy it!
    #64
  25. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    like we always say the b5 tip is the best mod this side of 200 quid.
    he's silly not to
    #65
  26. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks lads.
    Ive been working and keeping my end of the family life deal afloat so been a little busy.
    If im out later and the roads are quiet i may well try the 2 blocks bill asked about.
    Dan... you mentioned ( if it would fit ) i could maybe try your TIP? My car is a AMK engine set up but now with BAM head if it makes any odds? 2001
    I have a few favours to call in with a mate with a dyno and he is happy to let me use it... but i might want to set my golf up on there... so if i can do it on the road i will.
    Yes i am running a 4 bar reg now ( golf vr6 i think its from)?
    Standard injectors and a newish pump.
    I will try and get out and log the blocks asked for... any others to add to it?
    As i think you can log 3 together? so far people said
    020 and 115
    #66
  27. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Block 002 for injector on time...

    Block 031 for fuelling request/actual

    <tuffty/>
    #67
  28. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    how bout water / meth injection? I have snow performance and it works wonders. extra 20+hp there. An audi is an audi and there is no jap car that can beat the feel and quality. Even if.u lose out on the drag u still win...sh**I am in a classy, quality car and.u are in a fast but flimsy "max power" tub.
    #68
  29. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    maybe also 001 to see lambda adjust if he can with 031, 118 to see boost lambda's etc
    #69
  30. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    Ahhhhhh !
    well ive been out ( without checking here for bills blocks to log update)
    Like a muppet though i cant work out how to post the logs.
    Im sure before i used to copy and paste the data into paint and then save that and then up load it to photo bucket. Bobs your uncle...
    However... ive no idea why i cant do it now !
    HELP????
    #70
  31. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    print screen then paste in paint...
    #71
  32. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    Here goes...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Ive just been reminded by the mrs that i still havent had new coil packs fitted by Audi.
    But other than that things feel ok....ish
    #72
  33. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Stage 2 KO4 performance...what boost are you running it doesnt seem to request much?
    #73
  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Good airflow of 225gs which works out at 280bhp on the calculator. I'm getting the exact same gs as you ;)

    I can't work out lambda rates while on my phone. If you wanted I can do an air fuel ratio graph if you send me the spreadsheet, unless someone else fancies doing it?
    #74
  35. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Good airflow, looks like you have run out of fuelling though... injector on time is 20ms and over from 4.5k ish and afr goes lean top end but thats not conclusive enough tbh as the next run below hits 25ms but afr is arguably better..

    The 2 runs aren't consistent enough to draw too many conclusions other than you need bigger injectors (based on those logs) but thats not to say there are other reasons why this could be...

    Also load is dropping off a bit on the second run...

    <tuffty/>
    #75
  36. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    the bottom of the 2nd data you can see the effect of idc being max'd.... its into egt protection on fuel request but actual cannot follow it as its not possible.. open injector is already 100% open in the available time.

    ait's get hot dont they? 50+'c

    as said.. and as expected but now confirmed, you are fuel limited currently.

    225g/s is a little way short of >300bhp of air on pump fuel tho...
    Stage 2 cars running well have managed this from stock k04

    240+g/s is 300bhp territory
    #76
  37. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    Oh my days..
    So... i now need
    New intercooler set up? It was 24 degree outside though
    New injectors
    New TIP?
    WMI
    And a new map?

    Quick pluck of figures out of the sky...
    £650 minimum
    #77
  38. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Id add a 1 in front of that £650 mate.
    #78
  39. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    FMIC and pipes £250-£300
    Injectors £200
    TIP £200
    WMI £300
    Full custom map £300-£500 but your map might be tweakable for a lot less.
    #79
  40. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Active Member

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    You will always be able to recoup some of the costs by selling the bits yor replacing ;)
    #80

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