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I just want to cry!!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by themanthatcan, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    My S3 has felt underpowered for a couple of months. I took it to JKM in Portsmouth who said that it was running dangerously lean (14:1 AFR when it should be more like 12:1) and only making 207BHP. They've spent a couple of days on it and done quite a bit of diagnostic work but basically said there's nothing more they can do and that it must be a problem with the Custom Code remap.

    I got a copy of the dyno graphs from JKM today:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As you can see from the last graph the graph says I'm running 16:1 AFR at idle and no less than 14:1 once the boost kicks in; quite worrying figures! Anyway I called Custom Code and spoke to Leigh who originally did my remap and he was stumped. He suggested that we get it to a CC dealer and get the map put back to standard to see if that helped. He agreed to contact a few local dealers to see what the cost would be.

    10 minutes later I received a call from James, one of the owners of Custom Code, and head programmer. He was actually quite agressive (which I didn't appreciate) in telling me that JKM are talking ********. He says that if my car was really running 16:1 at idle then it would have melted a long time ago. He has asked me to get him some fuelling logs using VAG-COM and to send them off for him to analyse.

    ALL I WANT IS FOR MY CAR TO RUN PROPERLY!!!!!!!!!! In the 4 months I've had it I think it's been ok for 2 days! I'm now in a situation where I've given JKM £180 of my well-earned for work which Custom-Code claim is a complete waste of time. I'm stuck in the middle of two battling companies and my limited knowledge of how engines work means I don't know who to believe! I asked if I could get JKM to contact CC to discuss things but James tells me that JKM and CC have had run-ins before and chances are they wouldn't work together. :keule:

    HAPPY DAYS :(
     
  2. Essflee

    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    Really it shouldn't cost you a penny, if the map is at fault and the car is fine once put back to standard, then i can't see how they can charge you !
     
  3. TheSpaceCowboy

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    Nothing I hate more than companies who are threatening or abusive, definatly won't be recieving any of my business. Best to record everything from now onwards in terms of communications and work carried out in case they try to deny liability. Make it clear that you have had it independantly verified by 2 companies (get another to test it too) and that you want it put back to standard to see if that is the problem.
     
  4. 666markyboy

    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    what sort of power should it be making with that remap ???? 207 isn't much more than standard for that model is it ???... wouldn't the ecu be kicking into some sort of safe running settings if it detected a very lean mixture and surely VAGCOM would be getting some codes ??? not that i know anything about turbo motors :think:
     
  5. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    That's the annoying thing markyboy; there are no errors at all in VAG-Com. You're right in saying that 207 BHP is more like standard power (210).

    I've just been out and done some logging for James at Custom Code and we'll see what he comes back with.
     
  6. simch

    simch Active Member

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    Did you ever take it back to where you had the mappng done to let them look at it?
     
  7. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I've had similar experiences in the past mate!

    I took my car to JKM too, and I was told it was dangerously lean.

    Like you, I spoke to James Silverstone, owner of Custom Code/JBS and found him quite aggressive at first.
    He seems strongly against JKM generally, and said I had to get my car to a CC agent.

    I did that, and surprise surprise, JKM were right. The car had been running dangerously lean.

    The fault was infact not with the Custom Code map, but with my fuel pump.

    However, this doesn't avoid the fact that JBS were very quick to simply say JKM didnt know what they were talking about, and that my car was fine. When infact JKM were right, and the car was very far from fine.

    That said, Storm developments did take the car back FOC for in depth testing, and after around 3 hours work with me present, they traced the problem to a failling fuel pump.

    Get in touch with Custom Code again, and get them to sort it out!
     
  8. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    I've just had another conversation with James Silverstone after sending him my dyno graphs from JKM. He's certainly passionate about his work!!

    I hadn't noticed it at first but can anyone notice the fatal flaw with the BHP v Torque graph? It doesn't cross at 5250 RPM!!! There's something not quite right with the dyno if it doesn't! James also explained that the CC remap works in the same way as Audi designed it to; it always tries to run as lean as it can and will only richen the mixture up when EGT's get too high so it should never run so lean that damage will occur.

    James assures me that looking at the figures I've provided so far the map is working to spec and that I appear to have a hardware problem, possibly a blocked fuel filter. He's requested I take the car up to CC HQ and get JBS to sort it. I think I'm either going to take it to Storm or JBS and get this problem fixed once and for all.

    As for what to do about the JKM dyno, I'm still thinking about that one!
     
  9. j4jon

    j4jon Member

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    Why should the BHP v Torque graph cross at 5250?
     
  10. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    to put it simply, horsepower is a product of torque and revs, divided by a constant.

    That constant, is 5252.

    As a result, any true dyno print out plotted on a correct scale should cross at 5252

    [​IMG]
     
  11. j4jon

    j4jon Member

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    ah OK, so there is a reason.
     
  12. j4jon

    j4jon Member

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    You right all the graphs I can find online seem to cross around that figure
     
  13. Jay

    Jay Member

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    This sounds too familiar. I had mine remapped at JBS 2 weeks ago. The ride home was ok apart from the odd jerk. For some weird reason I assumed it would disappear....It didn't so I thought i'd change the usual culprits i've changed the MAF (again), DV (again) and temp sensor (again but with an OEM one) but its still doing it.....now feels slower than before the remap. Coil packs and plugs were changed a few months ago.

    When I initially spoke to JBS about getting a CC remap they offered a 30 day money back guarantee if I had any problems after the remap so I gave them a call
    and said that I wanted the car to be flashed back to standard and for a refund. The woman was adamant it wasnt the remap even though I said I wasn't having these problems before. Anyway I'm booked in for Monday and not holding my breath at getting my money back. I'd be more than happy if they can stop the jerking each time I come off boost.

    The most worrying thing is the burning smell coming from the engine. The readout on the climate control (49) is now always around the 100 degrees mark which has got me worried although the temp guage is always on 90 and never moves.

    What does running lean mean? and how can you tell aprt from running diagnositcs.
     
  14. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    oh bugger..... does this mean it really is 'Revo' all the way..... this is not good (keep shtum Jay:jester:)

    im having similar jerky ride with my CC....changing the MAF this weekend to see if that solves it....
     
  15. Aky

    Aky Aky

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    Doesn't sound good although I've never had any issues with my map. I would have also suggested taking it back to JBS or one of their tuning centres.

    As for JKM - if they had had the same issue before why couldn't they diagnose it?

    Good luck either way - to Defend JBS I've not had any issues despite being Custom Coded for over 18 months now.
     
  16. S3 Rav

    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

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    revo all the way! ;-)
     
  17. fran-s3

    fran-s3 Active Member
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    I'm kinda in the same boat mate, having problems with my Revo remap. Revo are unable to diagnose it, and reffered me back to my dealer and obv don't blame the map but my car. Thus I've changed and used gen audi parts which are all 4 coil packs, maf, dv, n75, sparks and TIP and im still getting missfires when it making optimum boost 5/10 times. Whenever I switch it back to standard it's fine. Having it removed soon for a refund and going to have a custom one, last thing I want to try is fuel filter.... I feel your pain it really does suck. :3sadwalk:
     
  18. S3 Rav

    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

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    DOH!!! cheers fran!
     
  19. bantam1

    bantam1 Member

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    Same here - nearly 2 years and loads of miles with CC map and no issues with it at all, so I wouldn't start a mass bash here. Is it not that remapped cars are more likely to show up underlying faults with our cars due to the additional stresses and strains, rather than the maps pe se causing problems? Hence the numerous threads about probs following various brands of remap.

    The customer service aspect is what would annoy me more. The last thing you want when going through any type of problem which technically might be over your head (which most things are with me!) is for someone to be offhand or even agressive with you. What you want is a sympathetic ear, an explanation you can understand, and a course of action that you're happy with. Companies that don't provide this are doing themselves a disservice and certainly wouldn't get my trade on a repeat basis.

    Hope you get this resolved satisfactorily TMTC.
     
  20. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Yeah this certainly shouldn't turn in a slagging thread. I've got no real issues with either company in question, I just want to get my problem solved and each company blameing the other is getting me nowhere.
     
  21. Aky

    Aky Aky

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    Does a remap put extra strain on the fuel pump? If so I presume the Turbo will be compensate for getting less fuel thru the engine and hence the extra PSI. Take it to JBS they seem to know their stuff (and so they should if they are remaping engines)

    What sort of liability do the remaping companies offer?
     
  22. j4jon

    j4jon Member

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    Out of interest what fuel did you have in it when it was mapped and what are you using at the moment?
    If you haven't already it maybe worth filling up with V-Power to see if the higher octane makes any difference.
     
  23. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    I'll second that, CC provided a very friendly service to me and wouldnt have noticed any judder if the rolling road didnt flag it up....now my senses seemed to have become more sensitive and im noticing lil things that i never noticed before..... hope that doesnt spread to my sex life or else i'll be nicknamed the 2 second wonder boy!!

    might place my delay spray order now
    :doctor:
     
  24. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    LOL :) Mine is also getting very juddery at the moment. When I first purchased the car I loved the smoothness of the drive, but now the car jolts slightly when accellerating or coming off the throttle at lower revs.

    James @ CC now reckons it could also be a partially blocked exhaust as this would cause an increase in backpressure resulting in a reduction in power, and I guess it could cause jerkyness as well?
     
  25. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    yeah.....but what could block the exhaust? a banana in the tail pipe:eyebrows:
     
  26. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    hehe a 12" dildo :) If the cat has started disintegrating (which is more than possible at 111k miles) then that could be the problem. Not sure how you'd check for it, but that's what we pay stupidly high labour rates for, so we don't have to know!
     
  27. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost!
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    My 4 file prehistoric AmD stage1 map is still going strong.:racer: :moa:
     
  28. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    Is it the old AMD generic map that they havent changed in 5 years:o.k::haha:

    I have heard of the wastegates becoming loose somewhere on here, if it isnt the wastegate it was something blocking the downpipe..... apologies if my memories deteriorating
     
  29. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Gutted Andy....

    sorry your still not getting far with getting your S3 sorted. As you know mine was a pain in the ass for a long time and also before it was remapped. Cost me a small fortune but i am happy to say its all been good since then.

    I got my CC remap in january this year and have no problems at all (not even a coil pack!!) Will be very interested to find out whjat is making your car dodgy cos if the remap stage 1 is the same pretty much for all 210bhp 8L S3`s bar a little tweaking for fuel etc... how can your map be making it screw up?

    now with my lilited knowledge i would say it something like prawn said with the fuel pump or even the throttle body like mine.

    Hope you get it sorted soon before we see your car burnt out on the side of the street. "honestly officer i didn't do it it was these kids in hoodies"
     
  30. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Believe me it's crossed my mind more than once..then I look out the window at my baby and realise I could never do it! :)

    I'm sure it must be something really simple but it's just a case of finding someone who is capable of telling me what! JKM were just a cop-out as far as I'm concerned. James @ JBS has pretty much guaranteed me they'd have it sorted within a day, but it's just a long way to go. £80 of fuel, however much labour and then whatever parts it needs. I just don't have the money at the moment as I'm still paying off the £1500 bill from my trip to ABTech.

    As long as the car isn't running really lean like JKM thought then I suppose the problem can wait for a resolution. It's still got *some* grunt and the up-side of being down on power is that I'm up on fuel economy!
     
  31. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Thats it look on the bright side!!

    I got really depressed when my car went form bad to worse and especially as the bills kept on getting higher and higher and no-one could even say if they could fix my car or not. in the end i paid thru the nose for Audi to just keep looking till they worked it out. Glad i did otherwise i would of had to still pay the bills and sell it off dirt cheap cos it was buggered.

    The replacement clutch bill is huge mine was about the same to Abtech so know exactly where your coming from infact all holidays in oue house are cancelled as i am stil paying off the bill to Audi.

    If its ok to drive but jst underpowered i would save up a bit of cash and then head off to JBS for a nice day out and fingers crossed they can sort it out for you (quickly).
     
  32. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Well JBS is not far from Alton Towers so the missus is up for making a trip of it..probably not until later in the year though.

    If you're up for it Bob, would you be willing to meet up and do a comparison between our cars? You're the most local S3 with a CC stage 1 map, and I'd like to check out the noises I'm getting from my turbo to make sure it's as expected. It'd be much appreciated if you'd agree to it and would be great to finally put a face to the name :thumbsup:
     
  33. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    of course mate anything to help really.

    Are you gonna make it to the meet they are arranging down here the first weekend in august?? cos i was gonna try to make that so we could do it then.

    If not let me know a time n place and i will do my best to make it.
     
  34. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Excellent!

    I'm away the weekend of the meet unfortunately (that's if it's goes ahead on the 3rd..it's gone mighty quiet!). Whereabouts in Soton do you live/work? I work in Hedge End so could always come see you one evening after work?
     
  35. 1animal1

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!
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    If you make it up mate im only a couple of miles from JBS...... good to put a face to the name.....

    Just a quicky....noticed that my car is hesitant but only when the car is not under load....i.e accelerating down hill...... which i dont do very often...is yours the same
     
  36. Caesium

    Caesium My BM is fixed!
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    Just looked again at your dyno run, and 16:1 at that sort of RPM is likely to **** your engine. They must be running a really retarted ignition map otherwise you'd be getting some serious pinking.
    You'll end up with burnt out valves at that ratio, the boost is too high for the fuelling, you're getting too much air in and not enough fuel.
    Look at this for some info.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio
     
  37. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    I work in Sarisbury Green, So i go by Hedge End every day on my to n from work. so can always stop off at your work on my way home i finish at 4pm (unless i have to stay late cos i was late in).

    The meet has gone a bit quiet as of late so not sure whats happening there. The original plan was to meet at the pub on Windhover Roundabout so we can always meet there as a half way kinda house.

    Or if you wanna come to me in Soton i live in Lordswood n can PM you my address.

    Out of interest have you cleaned ur throttlebody recently?? cos your car symptoms do sound very similar to what i had especially as its getting too much air.
     
  38. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Yeah I'll certainly give you a shout when we decide to head up.

    I noticed this morning that if I plant my foot, the turbo spools up but sounds really wheezy. Theres a lot of hissing noises but I can't tell if that's how it should be as I've never had the car working properly, and this is why I'd like to do some comparisons with Bob's. It feels and sounds to me like the boost is escaping somewhere, but JKM reckon they did a full pressure test and it was fine. The wierd thing is that when I come off the throttle I can feel the car boost properly for a split second.

    Weird!
     
  39. themanthatcan

    themanthatcan Member
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    Well I finish work at 4:30 so that would be pretty good timing to meet up. I work just off the roundabout by J7 with the big radio mast next to it.

    My TB had has a couple of good cleans, and has also had a throttle body adaptation run a couple of times but that's never made any difference.
     
  40. vrbob

    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Cool i know it well as i used to live in Bitterne so used to drive home that way.

    Maybe when the throttlebody was cleaned the butterfly valve got damaged or moved (which is what mine was doing) and letting air into the engine when it should be shut.

    Today i'm out of here at 3.30pm as its Friday Woohoo. so i can swing by about 4pm if you want??
     

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