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Hybrid K04 R&D

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by beachbuggy, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Have we to start a waiting list.......;)

    1.S3Dave
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    ...Looking good Dan...
  2. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Hold on, how come your names first dave? Are we doing it oldest first or sumet? :) haha.
  3. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Dan knows....:whistle2:
  4. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Aww, do we even want to know haha.
  5. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Hello Dan,

    Think you might have found what was limiting to 275 -276g/s.

    As you stated I have just set MLMAX to 1080 done a quick log up my driveway and guess what......Now I have hit 280.25g/s at 6800rpm, not bad for a hybrid!!!

    You must have more to be had with your setup

    Cheers
  6. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Only joking dani lad....

    I would def be up for one though, this is certainly excellent R&D and pushing the boundary's...Well done to Dan for having the balls to do it....it could have smashed the engine to pieces...
  7. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    What spec Hybrid???
  8. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    CR 2283 none clipped, goes well, gets very hot :) !!!!
  9. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    seriously, you went up to 280 by just raising MLMAX? that's very good. Can you do me a favour and see what happens when you set KFWDKSMX to 100 for all points on 1750rpm and above. It wont help with grams of MAF but may help with spool..
  10. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Wow is this with WMI?
  11. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Well if I can hit 292grams.. then I will be happy. Going to do a full run tomorrow to see what happens> I've still not done anything with timing yet, so that will be next at least to get some CF's just so I'm in the right ball park...
  12. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Seriously, 3 good 3rd gear logs, peaked at 280, usually 279, thank you!! Wonder what other hidden limits there are, (Engine Load).

    I will try KFWDKSMX tomorrow...and will let you know.

    Thanks again
  13. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Nope just powered by hot hot heat!!!!!

    That is with a AEB head, V1 K04 TIP, homebrew AGU/APY large port manifold (thanks for the welding Bill and I will post some photos on a different thread for those that are interested) and currently a Franken Manifold.....

    Will be interesting to see what Dan can get out of his new creation!!!
  14. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Watching very very closely
  15. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Almost identical to my set up inc franken mani/2283 non clipped,AGU Head, B5 v3, large plenum intake,, im no where near that....:3sadwalk:
  16. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Actually I have to agree. There is definitely some kind of a wall at that exact number. I've seen it too. My guess is it must be a specific voltage where the sensor "hangs" a bit. So the ECU loiters around that number until airflows continue rising enough to get the thing to "snap out of it".

    If any of you guys feel this sounds hair brained, I can live with that.
  17. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Nov 6, 2012]

    What preload on the actuator? What turbine rotor spec?
  18. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    stock mlmax on yours doug?
  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Top work Dan, REALLY looking forward to seeing if this will convert into BHP.

    I remember speedy steves back in 2010 was flowing 275g/s on the MAF, yet it would only make 314bhp on the dyno.

    Be great to see what yours is pushing
  20. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Hi Doug, its a brand new uprated actuator cracking at 13 psi ,turbine rotor/wheel is an RS6

    Shouldnt you be voting.....:)
  21. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Nov 6, 2012]
    Done my bit for voting. It's a great feeling; love of country and all. But I must say the voting process is really disappointing. They just give you a piece of paper that looks EXACTLY like those combination menu/placemat things you get at a cheap-o diner. You don't even get a booth anymore. They just stick your placemat into a scanner thingy and it's over. Sad, just sad.

    Anyway, with a stout 13psi preload on the actuator you should definitely be seeing 260+ g/s. Email me if you think I can help.
  22. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    you all need to stop talking in none coatesy terms.... grams is for cooking ..

    i want to know the real deal answers! is it fast? when can i have one ? ko3 fitment? some one give me all the stuff i need to fit it, since it wont be available in k03 fitment? last question .. some one give me an s3 to apply this stuff to...



    joking aside what does grams covert in to bhp ?
  23. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    G/S shared by 0.8 = BHP
  24. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    hmmmm. not so much on these.. Its still a reasonable guide, but with the uber heat generated, efficiencies plummet and power does'nt track necessarily.
    many a time I see awesome airflows, but not the power you would hope to get from them..
  25. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    erm no it shows exactly why the hotside cant............. If chasing a peak one off number, meh...
    the 330bhp level is the more realistic level, like we had on wellys long time ago..........
    its still a ko4 hotside, much like the lupo's hybrid is limited by its k03 hotside.. it is what it is.
  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    multiplying by 1.25 gives the same result and is a bit easier on the brain :p


    I wonder if the times when g/sec DOESNT match up well there are other signs of it? For instance lots of timing pull will obviously reduce power output but wouldnt neccesarily cause the airflow to drop by much. Similarly, the fuel mixture going very rich due to EGT protection would have a similar result.

    I'd imagine you'll find that in the cases where there is a large discrepancy between g/sec and HP, other logged values will explain why?
  27. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    could well be true.... allowing for the 220 offset that would put 275g/s into the 1190kg/h range which is 4.9121 v
    not max'd but headed there
  28. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Sorry Bill, I think I put my point across wrongly, it was more intended as a demonstration that the power can be forced from it for pub points, but that despite product development and mapping advances since Wellys, the ~330 figure you got in 2010 is still the safe limit of the hardware.

    It seems that you found that limit several years ago, and nothing we can do is going to get anything safely past it. it's been fun trying though!
  29. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Dave - I'm going to make a bold statement here that you're not going to like.

    Get it mapped properly man. R-tech or Badger 5. Nowhere else is capable or has the in depth knowledge of these setups to extract the best from them.
  30. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Yes, i agree Prawny, it is going to have to go to a specialist in the field when i get my new turbo....
  31. Reesy
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    Reesy Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Although I do agree with you, this is not a bold statement.

    This is a bold statement.
  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    We are taking the michael out of the poor little k04 at the end of the day.. lol.. We know the 2283 in its natural environment works with a larger turbine wheel in a larger a/r hotside so the potential on the tfsi k04's is realised..
    On wellys we were seeing yellow white manifold glow, which is beyond - owch hot hot hot... lol.... less was more.

    With some decent tuners and supporting mods they are realising their potential more frequently now.

    If dan can churn these out he should do well with it, decent internals compared to "some others"....
    progressive boost, building and sustained with timing seems to be the trick with these... and wmi to assist is strongly advised, 80mm TIP, as is free flowing exhaust mani etc etc etc yady yada bing bong

    :arco:
  33. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    [​IMG] Originally Posted by s3dave [​IMG]
    G/S shared by 0.8 = BHP



    Just to add, mine previously peaked at 270g/s ish on Bills rollers and made just 300Bhp, hot hot hot
  34. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Odd isn't it, 270g/s should equate to 337bhp, so you'd expect somewhere in the 320-330 region at least, but it's just no the case with hybrids.

    I think this car will make sunday very interesting indeed!
  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    dyno tells it how it is.......
    airflow vs actual measured power will reveal
  36. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    oh yea. I'd trust dyno figures every time over airflow.

    I'm keen to see how the airflow relates to power on mine, as I'm currently clipping my MAF on actuator, which would 'suggest' 320bhp or there abouts, but I don't believe it's anywhere near that currently.

    Will you be logging during power runs on Sunday Bill like the last time?
  37. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    yep. all runs will be logged as before.
  38. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Would you be able to (safely) do a FATs pull? 3rd gear; 4200-6500rpms. I'm assuming you have a 6spd.
  39. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Prawns car is a FWD A3 with a 5speed box, gearing is totally different.
  40. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Nov 7, 2012]
    Hello Dan, set KFWDKSMX to 100 from 1750rpm, didn't seem to make any difference to my setup, (not that I need it to spool any faster!!!) Logs seem very similar. Throttle plate angle are identical but the logs only start @2500rpm

    Probaly worth a shot on yours

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