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Hybrid K04 R&D

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by beachbuggy, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. s3gazz
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    s3gazz Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    dan your a star mate youve put so much time into all this work hope it pays off for ya pal.... ill be keeping eye out on this... might just put my car on hole lol for this.
    #41
  2. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    I wish I could fast forward time so I can see the outcome of this now.

    Good work Dan.

    If you need another guinea pig :)
    #42
  3. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    its size is what stopped me going tial when I originally went hybrid gt35,..... My previous FP based turbos were 52mm hole also.. I always thought wtf can you get thru that little hole??

    My overall power has not changed.. so it does'nt look to have made any power difference, however the 0.82 tial hotside did spool slower than the garrett T3 0.82 hotside, but I am not sure if thats the turbo itself being slightly damaged. I was'nt expecting more lag. I run fixed duty cycle and the same duty cycles make the same power so in overall flow terms to the level I have run it to so far, not much looks to have changed..
    #43
  4. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    That's a comforting thought because if it can cope with the size of your blower and the amount of airflow you must be pushing through there then it should certinally be fine with mine ;)
    #44
  5. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Active Member

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    This topic is like 50 shades of grey in man talk!!!!

    Loving it!!!!
    #45
    Yohan87 likes this.
  6. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    50 shades of gay more like ;)
    #46
  7. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    oooo hello ;) that's my fav book....
    #47
  8. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Sep 19, 2012]
    Fag, haha.
    #48
  9. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    So thread totally derailed thanks to Niki from RTech. I agree I didn't help.

    So back on track. Dan how far are we from being able to see some test results from your K04 work?
    #49
  10. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    westy you cant pass them blame, you brought the gay in to the conservation lol

    i agree im excited to see what happens
    #50
  11. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    Head , manifold and turbo are all fitted and cylinder is being fitted this afternoon when I finish work. Agu block/pistons etc already fitted so engine should be finished hopefully in the next day or so, then it's just a case of fitting the Welly . I'm in a really dilemma though as the car is a 180 TT the intercoolering pipe work will run over the Passenger side of the engine and I don't like the way it sits so am looking at ways of making it look more OEM . But I might just get it up and running , regardless of looks and then work on the cosmetics. Also I'm sure unsure whether to run 2.5" or 3" fmic pipe work. I'm sure 2.5" is the correct way to go and bigger isn't better but just with high volume, low boost whether the large pipe will hinder this or go with 2.5" to keep some speed in the air flow. I know what I should do, listen to the experience of others. In which case I'll have a comparable setup to others and I can always try 3" at a later date.
    #51
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  12. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    2.5" pipe is plenty...

    I am still on 63mm pipe on the ibiza
    unless you are punching for >600bhp it should be adequate
    #52
  13. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    Cheers, I will take heed and go with the 2.5"

    I forgot to thankyou as well of the offer on the dyno. Much appreciated, I will Definately take a trip upto in the near future.
    #53
  14. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2012]
    What's the views on 60mm alloy pipe as has been bugging me for ages wishing that I had made it out of 63mm as iirc the 60mm measurement is od which will surely result in 57-58 id?

    [​IMG]
    #54
  15. Chlippo
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    Chlippo Member

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    [Sep 21, 2012]
    Excellent work as usual Dan! If you need Any help from this side of the world, let me know.
    #55
  16. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 15, 2012]
    Just an update

    Engine is built, hybrid installed, engine all back together,
    heres a picture.. It's a TT I know...

    [​IMG]


    engine started 1st time, but it idled like **** and the xs power manifold glowed like ******* along with the turbo spinning like a nutter... Thankfully a quick revealed that the timing was 1 tooth retarded.. All I can say is my god. I didn't have a boost gauge hooked up but i reckon it was probably making boost at idle :) its got the usual **** TT instrumental panel problem with the fuel gauge and coolant temp so that'll get sent off to be fixed . Also tried changing the fuel pump to a 225TT but found the tank was full so didn't fancy catching myself on fire so will wait until its nearly empty before doing that job.


    as you can see in the picture I tried to keep it stock looking, being a 180TT the inlets on he other side to the s3 and I don't like the up and over look of other Welly coolers intercooler pipes off the turbo so made this up to run down the side of the engine, its currently silicones up but I'll weld up the top pipes when I get chance to make it look prettier.. Cos TT's like to look pretty... This will hopefully be a beast in wossey's clothing...
    #56
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  17. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 15, 2012]
    looking smart Dan as I said this morning :)

    can't wait to see how you get on with this!
    #57
  18. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Oct 15, 2012]
    This sounds awesome already, am I strange to be even considering saying hmm pm me how much this will cost me, might be fun next year ......

    No self control! iv just spend thousands ..
    #58
  19. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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  20. phil miller
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    phil miller Active Member

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    [Oct 15, 2012]
    very smart dan, i have been meaning to PM/text you to let you know mine is up are running and i followed your email to the letter, all seems good mate :)
    #60
  21. lloydie1
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    lloydie1 Member

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    [Oct 16, 2012]
    Its the vapours that are flammable, so less fuel = more vapour in the the tank = more flammable
    Of course IF you do actually start a fire then more fuel is a bad thing so just dont start a fire!
    #61
  22. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 16, 2012]
    It was more the putting my hand in a tank full to unplug the sensor wires and cross tank pipe. I think I'll have a big bucket of water to hand anyway!
    #62
  23. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 16, 2012]
    I did mine with half a tank of V Power in it and I had a banging headache from the vapours.
    #63
  24. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Oct 16, 2012]
    i loved it when i did mine :p woooo petrol head buzz lol aww im a crack head ....:undwech:


    you are right it does ming the car out for ages
    #64
  25. Grazam
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    Grazam Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    whats faulty with the fuel and temp i think ive got this problem is it in the cluster?

    Also i need to pm you about refurbing a k04 for me.
    #65
  26. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Update..

    Cars MOT'd and ont he road. It took a re-test as the it failed on a couple of things. Slightly worn brake hose at the front, easy fix.. Side lights not working, which when I got home where working... Typical.. and most importantly Emissions. Now this was my big concern, it only just failed on the CO2's and was slightly high on the Lambda. I was pretty confident the O2 sensor was good, it was on a stock map so I hoped it was just something like a boost leak or Dodgy maf. Thankfully It was a bad MAF as I swapped it over for a good one and it sailed through.. I also took the time to weld up the down pipe to cat back, unfortunately though its still dragging a little lower than i'd like so may have to take another look at it as it's not ideal at the moment.

    So yesterday, I refitted the AGU intake, fitteds the 630cc injectors and put on a cobbled together map. Thanks goes out to Tuffty for sending me 2 the injector maps.. Whilst I could have worked them out it saved me a lot of hassle and time just to plug in know working ones. Then I put in the new map for the uprated actuator and put basic maps in to get me going.

    Intially I set it to 15psi to see what I get. Knocked the timing back and went for a test drive.

    so first run went well, it drives very differently to the 2283 hybrid. The turbo sounds like a jet engine :) not in a bad way, just it sounds like a lot of air being pumped. It seems to make boost pretty quickly but the response doesn't seem as urgent as the 2283 hybrid.. and it feels more laggy, now this could be because I heavily ported the turbine housing and it may not flow so well at low boost but better as the builds RPM.. I could also have a boost leak... I have one of the new Awesome DV valves and I'm not convinced by it yet so I think that may be blowing/not seated properly so I will check that out as well..

    Results from the first run where good.

    EGT's remained below 950. There was only a CF of 3 on one cylinder at 6750rpm, IAT's where down at 12 and fuelling was sensible at.85 while injector DC was around 65% at 6750rpm..

    As for the MAF... well 230grams at 15 psi at 6750rpm... so working on the good old /0.8 rule that's about 287bhp at 15psi... Which I'm very happy with thus far...

    On a side note, anyone that knows anything about TT's should know how **** the instrument clusters are, well I think mine is possiblyt he worst! The temp gauge is knacked , the fuel gauge as I found out last night when I ran out of fuel! is about 1/2 a tank out the Speedo can't decide sometimes if it's doing 20 or 140mph. The dash lights seem to flash quite happily as if bopping to the radio, and it loves to tell me I have no coolant, i'm over heating, my brake pads are worn all at once...

    Now this can be fixed but I think it needs to be condemed.....
    #66
  27. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    oh the joys of tt instrument clusters... bag oh shyte are'nt they,.... doh!

    Lupo's 2283/k03 on 16psi is same flow/power numbers (slightly more but not much) in comparison.

    did you log the motor? sounds promising.. spool, and response I guess will be unusual with such a big compressor wheel hanging on the end of it.. Eliminator's, presuming this is the hotside, have never got going until 4krpm, which given they were not big wheel'd units,maybe down to the hotside feed to the turbine? You will know more how that looks of course.

    Its a huge step you even have it running so far tho.. well done for that.

    What next?
    #67
  28. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Sounds fast...

    Awesome work Dan, you turbo wizard!
    #68
  29. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    right lots of queries.
    i thought, that a 2283 hybrid, we were already pushing the exhaust side to its limits with that comp wheel. Because that comp wheel in its original turbo is good for 360-370hp. so the limiting factor in our puny ko4s is the hotside/turbine. I also thought this was evident with the suging from these hybrids.
    so with that in mind, how can there be more available with a bigger comp wheel, on that same turbine?

    Or is it that the comp housing is now enlarged and combined with the wheel its able to make same power with less boost?

    Will it still hit the same brick wall due to the turbine housing?

    i guess all this will be answered with more fettling and some dyno time, but im just trying to work this all out in my head theoretically
    #69
  30. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    It's definately not got the urgency that the 2283 hybrid had, It feels like there is alot of air being pumped but not very quickly if that makes sense. I'm running a stock k04 turbine housing buts been heavily ported and i'm guessing that as a result at low pressures in the turbine housing the turbine isn't as efficient as say a stock housing but as the pressures rise and the so does the exhaust gas flow it comes into its own, probably like you say the eliminator housing. And as you commented its around the 4k mark that you can feel hell knocking on the door!

    Next is to up the map upto 20psi, 2 reasons.. first to see what maf flow is at that point and to see if I get a proportional increase and second to see if I encounter any Surge as this is the potential point I would expect to see it.

    Just from the logging I've done thus far I'm seeing those big timing swings you saw, so I need to diable torque monitoring as well to see if that helps as I think once I get some timing put in and up the boost it's going to hamper the performance..

    As for the cluster, I might either buy another one or get this one fixed but from removing it already it looks like its been done once already, which doesn't help. I might also see if I can borrow an A3/s3 cluster, plug that in and see it works and if it does just make a hybrid cluster as they look similar just different facias...
    #70
  31. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Nice work Dan.. sounds promising....:drool:
    #71
  32. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It looks more like 16psi than 15 on here ....
    [​IMG]
    #72
  33. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    What does the mega wobbly line mean on the boost pressure over 5000rpm
    #73
  34. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Its just the small boost fluctuations that the maf sensor reads , it's only like .5psi . Its because I have a high sample rate Ie it records the boost pressure every 20ms and as there will never be a constant boost pressure it just shows up as wobbles.

    I could add a filter to give a straight line but really there is no point as it just makes it look prettier
    #74
  35. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Ah right, all foreign to me lol but I would like to learn.
    #75
  36. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    How did you get your IAT's so low?
    #76
  37. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]

    Welly cooler and possibly the big compressor wheel.

    the more you compress air the hotter it gets, there is a chance that with this big compressor wheel it's not making the charge air so hot to make the same boost as say a k04.

    High volume , low speed ( cooler air )
    v
    low volume , high speed

    also it was 5pm last night and pretty chilly.
    #77
  38. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    too many beers :laugh:
    #78
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  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    I cant wait to start doing some IAT logs with the WMI on now this cold weather has arrived!
    #79
  40. Rich196
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    Rich196 Member

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    [Nov 2, 2012]
    Looking good Dan, when do you want to bolt this onto my 225 TT then, see how it performs on standard stage 2 hardware ;) Oh and when I pulled my cluster out on my TT, it said made in france! Says it all :(
    #80

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