1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

hybrid for a a4? who/were from

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by boost-addict, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    hello
    right is there any body that can do all the hard word regarding building a hybrid, looking for around 270-300 hp.

    all the other bits a i know what i need, injectors maf etc etc but dont have the first clue what wheels and bits i need, were to get them machined and all that, im likley wrong, but see a thread using a rs6 turbine and some trimmed compersser wheel in a ko4 housing

    so any info is great, i was thinking on a gt28rs elim kit, but not really looking to spend that much money on it this unless it works out better?

    i know aarogon has touched on this with me but to be fair i got a little confused so thinking best to just let some one build one for me

    cheers
    #1
  2. CraigG
    Offline

    CraigG Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    2
    rather than dropping a bomb on getting a "hybrid" built, why don't you spend your money on an out the box 300bhp turbo (like the GT28RS you mention).

    a gt28rs will be infinitely more tunable than a k04 based hybrid, and will make the power your after without even breaking a sweat, meaning nice and low EGT's and very good reliability.

    in terms of additional cost... well you would be replacing the the stock exhaust manifold for an uprated one to achieve your power goals on a k04 hybrid anyway, so no additional cost there. you would also be fitting a nice big down pipe on a k04 hybrid too, so no additional cost either.
    #2
  3. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    manifold would be ported any how, so what would the cost be on a hybrid compared to a 28rs elim kit,

    am i better buying a atp/psi manifold and then buy the 28rs from a s14 and have the decat pipe adapted to the 5 bolt flange?

    not sure which is the best way to run things, the mechanical side of things im very good with, just choosing the best route is proving troublesome, so for a 1k budget should i just go for a elim kit or go proper 2071 and work around it with manifold and decat pipe. eventually being a race cat, if not from the out set
    #3
  4. Bradderz_1988
    Offline

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    3,191
    Likes Received:
    102
    #4
  5. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    looks good, whats the bhp on that and would it be tuned to the same spec as a ko4?

    worth paying the extra 100 dollars (£64) for a 45mm inducer on the compressor,

    how would this stand up to a stick gt28rs or same as in elim kit form?

    a 2871 shows this

    [TABLE="class: contenttable, width: 699"]
    [TR]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, colspan: 2, align: center"]Turbo[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, colspan: 4, align: center"]Compressor[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, colspan: 3, align: center"]Turbine[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Turbo PN[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]CHRA PN[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Ind Whl Dia(mm)[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Exd Whl Dia(mm)[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Trim[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]A/R[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Whl Dia(mm)[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]Trim[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #D6D6D6, align: center"]A/R[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: alt"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]472560-15[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]446179-67[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]51.20[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]71.00[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]52[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]0.60[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]53.90[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]76[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #F7F7F7, align: center"]0.64[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #E3F0FB"]
    [TD="align: center"]771847-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]446179-67[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]51.20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]71.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]52[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]0.60[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]53.90[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]76[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]0.64[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    if i go for the stage two extra £64

    [​IMG]

    would it be worth it over a elim kit or self build
    #5
  6. CraigG
    Offline

    CraigG Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    2
    a 28RS will blow any k04 hybrid out of the water. i personally would avoid a kit, if you buy an off the shelf 28RS kit, it will cost you an arm and a leg, because the suppliers will want to price it higher than a k04 hybrid because it is better. you would be much cheaper buying the parts individually, a used tubro for refurb(or even brand new), a manifold with the appropriate flange, and then get a down pipe made up/adapted.
    #6
  7. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Which one is best to go for. The 2871? Or diffrent? I can rebuild the turbo my self with garret items. Will a turbo from any s14 do? Sure they run the smaller 28r. Do i NEED a rs or can i use a t28 or t28r ?
    If i know the best one to go for ie one thats common with low used prices
    #7
  8. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    is a t28 not worth the hassle?
    #8
  9. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    301
    If you can get yourself a "t28" from an S15, its actually a GT2560 (aka GT28R), and is good for just over 300hp.

    I dont think the S14 turbo is also a GT series, but i may be wrong.

    A proper GT28RS is just a really well matched turbo to these engines, for a tractable road motor. Either would work though.

    GT2871 is more like a 350-400hp turbo, and probably isnt what you want.

    K04 Hybrid just isnt the right choice for the 270-300 figure your looking for.

    Dont bother with an eliminator, as it retains the standard crappy exhaust manifold. I'd be looking at a PSI Concepts manifold, proper GT28RS (or a S15 turbo if you want to save a bit of cash) and DIY the rest.
    Another cheaper option, which i've looked at myself, is a T3 from a sierra cosworth. Largely overlooked, yet reported to spool more or less like a GT28RS, just with a slight amount more lag, and available super cheap.
    #9
  10. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Dimond. Sorry to make to repeat your self but wasnt really a turbo thread. See knowing options like that is perfect. I wish i had piles of cash stacking up itching for the perfect bt build but to be fair i dont and knowing i could get a crappy s15 or cossie turbo an rebuild it with the genuine bits then id be very happy, even if i made the lower mark of 270. I dont need it lightening quick but what i have isnt quite enough. Nd being quattro hurts power even more. Which i knew but no wheel spins for me when i do have a bt kicking in. Is there difrent models of the t3 or just te one
    #10
  11. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    301
    Theres a few.

    2wd cossie has a 55 trim, and 4x4 cossie has a 60 trim. The 55trim makes a bit less power, probably a comfortable 280hp, whereas the 60trim will do 300 comfortably.

    Then theres other variants like the T34 from the escort, which is basically a T3 exhaust side, with a fairly massive T4 compressor wheel nailed on, and in the right setup will do 400hp.

    If you do go the T3 route, make sure whatever you buy has a unmodified turbine wheel. Some tuners/turbo builders seem to clip the wheels back to let them flow better, but on a standard T3 its just not needed and only serves to make the turbo more laggy. You also want to ensure you get a .48 exhaust housing, anything bigger again will just add lag for no real gains. These came standard on the sierra turbos though.
    #11
  12. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    #12
  13. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    301
    PSI concepts do a T3 manifold that has it underslung like the stock turbo, and even allows you to retain the airbox if you wish.

    Exhaust Manifold - PSi Concepts Audi/VW 1.8T Longitudinal (T3)

    Sure its a little more expensive than the chinese ones on ebay, but i'd imagine it will also last and has a lifetime warranty.
    #13
  14. Lee Goodall
    Offline

    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have done a T28 (from a nissan SR20DET/S15 engine) conversion on my AEB engine and I think that all in it probably cost me around the same price as a hybrid K04-015 in total.

    The turbo is bigger than a K04 based turbo and as aragorn said it should be capable of around 300HP; if you decided that you wanted even more power in the future then there are companies who will 'hybrid' your T28 so you could push 400HP+.

    [​IMG]
    #14
  15. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Yer although i say now i dont want more you never know. Thing is i want to be about 30/40 ftlb under the 300 threah hold which in bhp is around 290 depending on timing and fueling.
    So with a rough 1k budget not including custom exhaust as that already in the pipe line
    Say 450 for a refurbed t3. 250 for a t3 manifold likley another 60 postageso say 300. When i get my exhaust done i get half price remap so that makes that cheaper. Then all i need from tere is little odds and ends like oil lies and fittings and which ever injectors. Saab reds or vxr?either of which will have there flow tested cleaned and even have diffrent nossels to suit. Already have the intercooler sorted bar the har pipes from compressor to ic then thr up pipe from the ic to the inlet, any thing ive missed? Have tqs so is s4 pump although in going to check when i repace te fuel sender. Were does a t3 or t28 spool from? Guessing late 3k. 4k
    #15
  16. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    301
    I'd imagine the T28 above will be well on its way to full boost by 3k, the T3 will probably be a bit slower, but the yankee forums suggest they're pretty similar to a GT28RS in terms of boost threshold, so maybe 3.5k?
    #16
  17. Bradderz_1988
    Offline

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    3,191
    Likes Received:
    102
    Dont forget to throw sum rods in that package !!!
    #17
  18. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Not needed in my view. Im not pushing for 300 want around 270-280 and tourqe wont be any were near the capabiltiys of this engine. Just to note i have a ajl engine. Same as the aeb large port with song enough internals for 300. A clutch is what ill defently need. And will be the first thing i buy along with turbo an manifold. Injectors and pipes can be soured at a later date closer to the atuall build
    #18
  19. Lee Goodall
    Offline

    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    I would imagine that boost-addict is trying to avoid the cost of rods etc as he is aiming for less than the magic 300HP. Obviously rods would be ideal though.
    #19
  20. Lee Goodall
    Offline

    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    You beat me to it!
    #20
  21. Lee Goodall
    Offline

    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    I went for a TTV flywheel and S4 clutch but they're not cheap.
    #21
  22. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    301
    Modified 1z flywheel and S2 clutch is the cheapest way to do it.

    Mine owe me circa £200 each.


    Bigger turbo will generally be easier on the rods too, and for the most part you can map it in a safe manner.
    #22
  23. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    Well yer as should be no spikes. Plus later on if i wish can do rods put t4 compresser side for 350-400
    #23
  24. Lee Goodall
    Offline

    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1
    GT35R FTW :eyebrows:
    #24
  25. boost-addict
    Offline

    boost-addict Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    35
    would love too mate but way to expencive, out of my budget ie internals, and more so the massive lag around town,
    #25

Share This Page