Hybrid build, running in / breaking in

scotty_24

scotty_24

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Hello.

Ive done a search, trawled loads of posts and cant find any definitive answers.
Next month my car is having IE rods, rings, BBT K418T, Pro 4 mani etc etc fittied.

A friend is doing the build for me, hes a Qualified Tech at my work (Volkswagen)

As far as breaking the engine in, as far as work is concerned there is no running in process (mineral oil changes, break in driving techniques etc etc)

For those who have carried out similar work, what have you done?

Ive read http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm and the theory makes sense.
But what do people do with regards to oil changes?

Ive been advised 10w40 Mineral oil for 100 miles, change to synthetic for 400 miles, then fully synth up to 1k, drop the oil and change oil a final time.

Does this sound correct?
Bill / Tuffty etc its coming down to Badger 5 in April ( still to book but have been in contact with Bill and know I have to pay deposit) so any advise from you guys would be awesome.

Thanks for your time


Scotty
 
hi

i recently built a engine for a BT setup that was just mapped at bills.

i ran diesel spec super cheap carlube 15/40 mineral and the changes went like this 50 miles,150 miles,300 miles,750 miles then at around 1200 switched to synthetic

just remember to take it easy and let it warm up but also don't baby the engine get a little boost into it to help with the rings i would also recommend keeping the PCV connected to a vac source to help scavenge the gasses as this will be increasing untill the rings bet in properly.

so give the engine a little boost i was going to around 5k and lift off totally let the revs come down on their own (gives time for the PCV to suck all the unburnt fuel out of the crankcase and burn it off and help with bedding the rings ect duo to massively increased vacuum)
 
I'm also interested in this subject as I've just started building my own engine, do the same procedures apply when running in an engine that's also had new bearings ETC? . .

Scott, if you don't mind me saying your procedures sound a little unorthodox from the norm? . . As we all know though, there is obviously more than one way to skin a cat!
 
The only real thing to 'break in' is rings. Hard break in method (some boost, repetitive loading) beds the rings in using loading and cylinder pressures, creating a solid seal. The bearings and turbo etc should work as they should providing assembly and clearances are correct, not a great deal you can do about that.

Funnily I heard from someone at RB Motorsport that hard break in is often used for race engines requiring top performance and regular rebuilds, as apparently they might not last quite as long. whereas gently break in is used for the majority of street drivers. That is somethjbg they employ when building an engine for customers.

The whole usage of cheap mineral oil is just to arguably mate bearing surfaces together, plus th added benefit of it being cheap as you will require frequent oil changes during the early days. The frequent changes 20, 100, 500miles for e.g is because of the amount of contaminants and metal that it might contain from bedding in the rings and bearings etc.

I myself will employ a hard break in procedure for 20 miles before dropping the oil, mineral oil for another 500 miles, again frequent loading, not too much revs or boost, before filling with synthetic and driving like I've stole it.
All the while hoping for the best, as that's pretty much all you can do, regardless of the way you do it.

It's a never ending debate and there arguments for all kinds of procedures, just do what seems logical to you, or take advise of someone you trust
 
Thanks for all the input lads, it's good to see that most people agree with the mineral oil changes in quick succession for the first few hundred miles, and lots of engine breaking to bed the rings in.
 
If its built and the tolerances are right you're golden if they are not you're goosed.

Even idling for one minute each piston has gone up and down a 1000 times when cold.
 
yep, and idling or low load running on a newly built engine is literally the worst thing for it, as it polishes up the bores and stops the rings bedding in properly.

When i built mine, i started it and immediately drove it round the block a few times until it came up to temperature, ie warmed it up under mild load rather than sitting idling. I then shut it off and checked it over for leaks, reset the trip counter and went for a drive. During that drive i tried to run the engine either accellerating or in overrun, slowly building up from half throttle and accellerating to about 4000rpm in lower gears, to by the time i was 10 miles in doing full throttle 2000-6000rpm pulls in third. After each pull you want to lift off, and let the engine come back down the revs under maximum vacuum, then drive calmly for a short time before doing the next pull.

After 20miles i was back home, changed the oil and drove it normally. I actively avoided steady state running (like sitting on a motorway or A road at constant speed) for the first 500miles, and ran mineral oil until 1000miles, changing it at 20, 100, 250, 500 and 1000. I put the N75 back on at

The first two changes had the oil come out like glitter, which was somewhat scary!
 
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badger5 said:
passing by the cyl walls vs being pushed against them will be two different "frictions"
Click to expand...

BMEP does that job when you get on the throttle, not loading it from low RPM of course :icon thumright:

Too slippery oil it'll glaze
Too little throttle it'll glaze
Too much heat it'll glaze
Too much heat it'll glaze

The method of increasing the throttle inputs in short burst but not letting the motor get hot so 10-15min sessions with no lugging the motor from low RPM makes the most sense to me.

very light throttle up to temp
Cool
light throttle inputs (10-15mins)
cool
medium throttle inputs (10-15mins)
cool
medium - high throttle inputs (10-15mins)
change oil
couple of sessions of bursts at light to WOT (10mins)
Enjoy your motor
retorque head bolts and switch to sythetic oil after 500+ miles

Theory behind that method is that as throttle inputs increase BMEP increases pushing the pistons rings out seating them progressively .

Everyone like different methods though
 
aragorn said:
yep, and idling or low load running on a newly built engine is literally the worst thing for it, as it polishes up the bores and stops the rings bedding in properly.

When i built mine, i started it and immediately drove it round the block a few times until it came up to temperature, ie warmed it up under mild load rather than sitting idling. I then shut it off and checked it over for leaks, reset the trip counter and went for a drive. During that drive i tried to run the engine either accellerating or in overrun, slowly building up from half throttle and accellerating to about 4000rpm in lower gears, to by the time i was 10 miles in doing full throttle 2000-6000rpm pulls in third. After each pull you want to lift off, and let the engine come back down the revs under maximum vacuum, then drive calmly for a short time before doing the next pull.

After 20miles i was back home, changed the oil and drove it normally. I actively avoided steady state running (like sitting on a motorway or A road at constant speed) for the first 500miles, and ran mineral oil until 1000miles, changing it at 20, 100, 250, 500 and 1000. I put the N75 back on at

The first two changes had the oil come out like glitter, which was somewhat scary!
Click to expand...
Excellent thankyou for your help, I will go ahead and follow this technique.

Thanks guys
 
hard break in all the way! I swear by it.

I've done my last 3 engines that way, and all have gone onto produce record breaking results at the time with excellent reliability and characteristics (low oil usage, high compression test results etc)

I was using about 75% throttle and 6k rpm within the first 10 miles. N75 unplugged to keep boost low, but lots of throttle and lots of over run.

I ran 10w40 mineral up to 50 miles, then swapped for more mineral for 100 miles. a 3rd lot of mineral from that 150 up to 300 miles, then swapped to fully synth and plugged the N75 back in.

At 500 miles it was on the dyno at 350+ bhp. Not looked back since!
 
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Gets the job done faster too and I far more interesting than sitting below 3k rpm for 1000 miles!

Win win!
 
Well the builds done! Primed the engine with the coil packs unplugged to get the oil flowing (had primed the turbo earlier with a syringe), plugged the coil packs in and she fired up first time!
Checked for leaks and within 5 minute went out for a drive using various amounts of throttle and lots of over run as suggested.
Dropped the oil after a 25 mile drive and refilled again with mineral. I plan to drop this oil once its done 100 miles.
So far so good, the hardest thing is getting used to the clutch as ive never drove a car with a paddle clutch before.

Will keep updates as I go.

Thanks everyone for the awesome advice as always
 
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Just updating this.
Done another mineral oil change at 100 miles and changed to semi synthetic. Currently on 280 miles.
Been on a few long countryside runs using various amounts of throttle, but never over 5k revs.
Am I being too gentle? Ive only let it boost to 0.5bar (7psi), shoud I use full throttle and let the turbo boost to 15 psi? (N75 is unplugged).

Thanks again for any help
 
I second what Prawn says, i ran in a new build at the end of last year. Ran on mineral oil with progressive increase of throttle percentage throughout the gears, warming up and cooling down properly. I did 500+ miles run in with the n75 unplugged on mineral oils before switching to fully synthetic and had no issues what so ever.
 
Hi guys. Im having a engine rebuild with rods,hybrid, intercooler, pistons, etc. Just wanted to ask what does overun mean? Sorry if its obvious lol
 
RB S3 said:
Hi guys. Im having a engine rebuild with rods,hybrid, intercooler, pistons, etc. Just wanted to ask what does overun mean? Sorry if its obvious lol
Click to expand...
overrun is what you will be doing for example going down a hill, no throttle, in gear, so the cars pushing the engine, and the engines braking the car... so whilst doing this you have high vacuum, sucking oil up by the rings... so alternating power on accelerating and overrun is aimed at providing lube to the rings where they are high friction during running in
 
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