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Huge VED increases - Not just for new cars!

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by jdp1962, May 1, 2008.

  1. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 1, 2008]
    If your car was registered after 1 March 2001, and is currently in Band F or G for Vehicle Excise Duty, then depending on your CO2 rating, you could be paying as much as £455 a year for your tax disc.

    Here's
    the new table:

    My B6 2.4SE's CO2 rating is 223 g/km, so I'll be going from £210 this year to £300 next year and £310 after that. But if it had been rated only 2 g/km higher, the increase would have been much greater still.

    This is going to have a massive effect on used car prices.
    #1
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  3. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [May 1, 2008]
    typical govt trick, wait until you have bought the car then double the tax over-night. shows it has nothing to do with the 'climate'.

    Remember who is taxing you as you drive to the poll today:confused:
    #2
  4. alijames
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    alijames Active Member

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    [May 1, 2008]
    This has been covered many times already since the budget.

    An 8L S3 with a BAM (225bhp) engine is 226g Co2/km, so will be in band L and cost £400+ in VED

    Cheers,
    #3
  5. Nickynibbles
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    Nickynibbles Damn it where's 7th gear when you need it?!

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    [May 1, 2008]
    Having sold my A4 3.0 qs a couple of weeks ago for a good price I could probably buy it back again in a years time for 1/2 the price if big engined used car prices do drop. Stoaksey noticed this happening already recently when he sold his S4!

    The answer surely is to build a kitcar using a V8 from a pre-1973 car then your thundering polluting planet destroying baby bird killing beast wouldnt have to pay any road tax at all!!
    #4
  6. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [May 1, 2008]
    Evo ran an article in this months mag showing there are ways round it, buy a grey import, buy a ariel, konigseggywhatever, pagini zonda as these are produced in such small volumes they dont get type approved on emissions.

    Personally I dont really think it's going to have a great effect on car prices, a few will be put off sure.

    Both my cars are in the highest tax bracket using the current system and in band L for the new system, bit of a git but it wont make me sell them for something cheaper to road tax.

    J.
    #5
  7. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    [May 1, 2008]
    Mine is a 210 AMK registered on... wait for it... 1 March 2001!! If it'd been registered the day before i would be fine!! in saying that, i'll still be cheaper than those of you with BAM's... still ridiculous though!
    #6
  8. fran-s3
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    fran-s3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 1, 2008]
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  9. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 1, 2008]
    I'd just like to say that all my cars are over 7 years old. :)
    #8
  10. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 1, 2008]
    This is a tough call really - don't get me wrong I do begrudge paying over £300 pa for car tax - especially given that this months pay cheque had over £900 of deductions as it is :faint: - I do have to accept that I do drive a car which is judged as 'heavily polluting'. I could, if I wanted drive a smaller more economical car, but i don't, because cars are my passion and I will pay what I have to keep it. That and there are no buses I could use even if I wanted to - but don't start me on that!!

    HOWEVER, I would very much like to see some evidence that the £300 plus I will soon be paying IS being used to offset carbon or reduce global warming or whatever. IF I could see the money in action and making a tangible difference to climate change and not being used to keep benefit monkeys in the fags and booze they are accustomed to - then the increase would be a lot easier to stomach :hi:
    #9
  11. Macduff
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    Macduff Member

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    [May 2, 2008]
    The problem with the system is that it taxes based on CO2 per Km and not on usage. So if you have an RS4 that does 5K a year you're paying far more than a rep in his 1.9TDI doing 40K a year. Not very fare and certainly not the supposed green tax that they make it out to be.

    The simplest option would be to scrap the current system and add the cost onto fuel. I've seen someones calculations that suggested it would add 5-10p a litre. Then it would be a much simpler system.

    Now, if they went a bit further and included basic 3rd party insurance in the price of petrol we wouldn't have the problem of uninsured drivers.

    Two problems sorted very easily!
    #10
  12. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [May 2, 2008]
    Thats far to simple and sensible for this brain dead government.
    #11
  13. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [May 2, 2008]
    Dont they do something similar in Australia?

    J.
    #12
  14. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 2, 2008]
    :applaus: for Macduff!
    #13
  15. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [May 2, 2008]
    i think its the road tax that covers basic insurance, oh and they don`t need to mot their cars unless they are selling them I think.
    #14
  16. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 2, 2008]
    yep no mot in oz
    I see that Labour has had a bad result with the local elections...I wonder if it will sink in that people don't want them running our country
    #15
  17. jcs356
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    jcs356 Brum brum

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    [May 2, 2008]
    Me too! Way to go...
    #16
  18. stapo69
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    stapo69 All hail the mighty quattro!

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    [May 6, 2008]
    Thank god my S4 is a 1998, produces 274 g/km, that'd make it the highest band, £455! Phew!!!!
    #17
  19. JohnboyC
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    JohnboyC Member

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    [May 6, 2008]
    Well, my 2003 2.5 TDi Quattro Sport Avant chucks out 211 gm/Km.....all I know is that I will be cashing in my existing tax disk in February 2009, and retaxing in February so I get to tax my car at the old rate......considering the wife has a Mini Cooper S that also will cost £300 to tax next year we save £180 until Feb 2010...

    Apparently Gordon **** wit Brown is now "listening" after Labours drubbing in the polls last week.....lets hope him and his puppet chancellor have a re-think.....

    I s'pose when all is said and done, the extra £90 in VED is only 2 fill ups of a tank of diesel fuel now.....cannot see that affecting used car prices "that" much.....
    #18
  20. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [May 6, 2008]
    Older cars will get it too its just a matter of time.

    They arent CO2 rated so that con doesnt work, but it'll happen, soon.
    #19
  21. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [May 7, 2008]
    SO it's about time you bought a new one then, tight wad. ;)
    #20
  22. Wes G
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    Wes G Member

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    [May 7, 2008]

    :laugh:...Sorry Jo, that made me chuckle!!!
    #21
  23. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I don't think not having MOTs would be a good idea. I'd hate to think of all these people keeping hold of their sheds because they only ever have to fix them once they actually break. Potentially causing an accident for someone else.

    Although I hate to pay out for anything I do agree that cars of a higher CO2 output should pay extra. I'm actually suprised that the rates aren't higher.

    It's insurance I resent. So far in my 7.5 years of driving I have paid out over £9k in premiums but have never made a claim. I have been in 2 accidents, neither of which were my fault, both of which I couldn't claim on the other parties' policy (because they were lying scumbags) so both of which I had to pay for myself because my excess was too high to even try on my own policy. So I'm now over £10k out of pocket and for what??!!
    #22
  24. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I really dont agree on taxing on Co2 levels as i think it's alot of rubbish tbh, it's a clear money making bandwagon.

    HOWEVER

    We're stuck with it, what i think would be a much fairer system would be that the road tax we pay would be a maximum for each year.

    i.e highest Co2 band and the car covers say over 15,000 miles a year then it's taxed at the highest rate.

    then a 10k bracket.

    then a 5k bracket.

    It would be relatively easy to police, could work with the MOT systems, the garages that service the vehicles. Even petrol stations could ask mileage when you fill up (like you get with fuel cards) This in particular would be a relatively good way of keeping track of mileage - i.e somebody fills up 50 quid every 2 days but claims to have done say 20 miles inbetween, it would be easy to work out a minimum and maximum distance that could theoretically be travelled in that type of vehicle.

    It wouldn't be limited to roadtax, could also be a much easier way of keeping track of insurance etc.

    You would still get the scammers and liars, but think of how many people will chance having no MOT or road tax now anyway so there's no difference there

    Of course this would make far too much sense and is completely beyond any politician's comprehension.
    #23
  25. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I disagree with this in principle. I think it's unfair to let some people pollute as much as they want while others are doing the complete opposite. Someone should have to pay and I hope a lot of our road tax monies go towards making all those tree plantations at the sides of the roads. I do agree that it's a money making system at the moment to a certain extent.

    Well the idea of paying as you drive is not a new one, the government did actually want to introduce the system although typically they went a bit mad with the costs and the country fought against it. They should introduce a system whereby a driver who did 12000 miles (let’s say, as a given average) paid about what they pay now per year and then anyone who did less paid less and more paid more. It'd eradicate the problem of people paying full tax for cars they rarely drive and also encourage us all to drive less per year.

    As you have said it'd be very easy to police this by the odometer being checked once a year, or a fool proof satellite tracking system.
    #24
  26. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Just add it to the price of fuel, job done.
    The more you drive, the less economical your car, the more you pay. What could be fairer or simpler?
    Rodenal, no idea what you're smokin' but you honestly think keeping a tally on everyone's mileage is "easy to police"?
    Do you work in local government perchance?
    #25
  27. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Uneconomical doesn't necessarily mean higher emissions Andy but I know what you're saying.
    #26
  28. Issac Hunt
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    Issac Hunt Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    This would be horrendously difficult to implement and police. Imagine the computer systems required to hold and process all that data?

    The government's record on large scale computer systems is not exactly 100% is it? Unworkable IMO

    Add it all to fuel, the further you drive then more you pay.
    #27
  29. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I'll admit that Britain's track history of computer systems isn't very good but to suggest that policing a system to log a vehicles' mileage is unworkable is wrong I think.

    To space required to store the mileage of EVERY SINGLE CAR in Britain would be less than a dual layer DVD! The system would obviously have to be integrated in with the MOT system but most of that is in place already and would just require a software change to state that the mileage entry is not optional.

    The matter of making sure everyone doesn't tamper with their odometers is another thing entirely of course. But I'm sure there is someone out there than can make a 100% fool proof method!
    #28
  30. Issac Hunt
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    Issac Hunt Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    It was suggested that the mileage is recorded everytime you fill up with fuel!

    Therefore you would need a special terminal in every filling station in the country linked to a central server/database - That is madness!
    #29
  31. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Well yes that is lol
    #30
  32. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I'm sure they said the same about putting traffic lights on roundabouts, but some pen pushing desk jockey signed off on spending millions of our money on such shyte!
    #31
  33. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    It's not that far from what's already in place - when you fill up with your fuel card if you input your mileage your company gets a list each month with what fuel you put in and what your mileage was and when.

    Any fuel station that accepts fuel cards has this already installed, so there's nothing new needed at all. That's what i meant by easy to police - in principal its already there.

    Anyway adding it to the price of fuel is a much better idea lol

    Although the price we pay now for fuel should include it all.
    #32
  34. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 8, 2008]
    Yes but that doesn't effect the amount the driver pays as it's all paid for by the company. As soon as it starts to effect the amount we pay, people will just lie, then you'll need a system that compares all the reported mileage at the pumps with the mileage at the MOT and any discrepancies billed to the owner. With 28m cars out there it would be a logistical nightmare.
    #33
  35. Macduff
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    Macduff Member

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    [May 8, 2008]
    And there would be a huge overnight increase in software sold to alter mileage!
    #34

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