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Huge black smoke, and no horse power in acceleration

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by iucle, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    Hi guys!
    I have an A4 B7, 2005, 1.9Tdi.
    Had a huge problem this evening while was coming back from work.
    The car started smoking like crazy and no power when accelerating :crying: I think it is the Turbo. The car has 147.000mi.

    What is your opinion? If it's the turbo, how much would it cost me by getting it online?
    I suppose that the Audi dealership would ask me about £1000 at least for the whole job.

    P.s. When stationary doesn't smoke at all while accelerating. Just when I put in 1st gear, it starts smoking and has no power whatsoever.

    Thanks in advance
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  3. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    boost pipe has popped off :D
    welcome to stupid vag clips
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  4. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    Thanks for the reply.
    I have no idea what is the boost pipe, and how is it fixable.
    Could you point me to a link or explain how to put it back?
    It would be much appreciated.
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  5. @udi A3
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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    Theres a run of pipes from the turbo to the intercooler and to then to the intake. somewhere on the pipe run theres a leak, all the boost air is escaping, do you hear a whooshing noise with it? usually the clips pop out and pipes pop off. should be fairly easy to spot under the bonnet with no engine covers on still.
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  6. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    I was actually hearing a wooshing when try to accelerate, but only when driving. I will try to take the engine cover first thing tomorrow morning and have a look at the pipes. In case is a clip popped out, do I have to buy a new one, or just fasten it back?
    Thanks a lot for your help, I was getting crazy here, as thought maybe is the turbo.
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  7. @udi A3
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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Hopefully just pop it back on, but yes new pipes or clips can be had cheaply from audi. Or get a hardpipe kit for it. Maybe excessive engine movement or something caused it, or could still be a split pipe.
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  8. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    I'll see how is it tomorrow, hopefully it is just a pop back on job.
    Maybe I've done 750miles in 2 days recently and that caused the pipe to come off.
    Anyways, thanks a lot for your help, I'll get under the car in the morning and we'll see... Fingers crossed!
    #7
  9. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Today I tried removing the under engine bay and looking, no chance finding the pipe. I started the car again and tried to rev a little, but it was like clogged and could not rev it, had seen the black smoke and the usual smell. Switched it off.
    Now will wait for the mechanic to call me back, as I am afraid driving to the garage, and it is quite impossible to drive it to be fair...

    Can it be something else if I have the impression of clogging when revving?
    Thanks.
    #8
  10. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    I am not a gambler but my money would be on the EGR valve in first position and the Turbo in second.
    Good luck with whatever it is and please keep us posted of the outcome.
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  11. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    You bet well Paul! It is the EGR valve indeed, I took it out and it was so clogged that couldn't move at all. It had some much carbon...
    Here is the picture: Phosphorus screen making.jpg

    Know when I removed the Egr valve, I've seen that the intake manifold has a lot of Carbon, and oil in it as well....
    Phosphorus screen making 3.jpg
    I think that I'll have to clean it as well, but have no idea how to take it out, plus there is a key that I never seen and definitelyhaven't got one.

    this: Phosphorus screen making 2.jpg

    I might go to Halfords tomorrow and see if they could get me one.

    In the meanwhile, could someone point me to a link with how to remove the intake manifold?
    What would you suggest to clean the manifold and the EGR with?

    Thanks a lot!
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  12. @udi A3
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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Good call on the egr, was afk most of today, i keep forgetting i dont have an egr valve now
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  13. DieselJake
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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Having the same problem on my b6, will be cleaning and blocking the EGR soon and taking the cat out the exhaust encase that has anything to do with it, also if your engine's shaking a bit (mine is) supposedly a new engine mount is due which I'm thinking could maybe have an effect on the boost pipe? Not too clued on this.
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  14. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Oh,I see...haven't thought about the engine mount...but my engine is shaking a bit indeed...
    But changing the engine mount would be a big job I suppose...
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  15. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Just put back on everything after cleaning the Egr valve,wasn't able to clean the manifold....
    Started the car but doesn't keep idle,shuts itself off after 3-4 seconds.
    Any clues?

    I'm desperate here...
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  16. Paul B7
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    [Jul 19, 2013]

    My EGR was seized solid and needed replacing................................
    Does yours operate now?
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  17. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I don't know if it works...is there a way to know if it operates?
    when I removed it,the valve was stationary and wasn't able to move it,but I thought I can't move it because it operates when the car starts... Is there a way to know if the Egr is still ok?
    Cheers!
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  18. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    The end has a black cover, take the screws off and remove that. Inside are some cogs, you should be able to turn them which turns the flap. If it doesn't work it's probably caked.
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  19. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I just tried what you suggested and it doesn't turn... When I removed it, it was half way opened, so I pushed the valve down, then, tried to move the parts where the black cover was, but no chance to push the valve forwards...
    I think it is gone then...isn't it?
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  20. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Can you take a picture? Is the inside caked with black carbon? Do the cogs look clean, missing teeth?
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  21. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Here are the pictures after it is been cleaned and then refitted. Since I've seen that it doesn't keep in idle and stops, took it out again:

    IMG_8752.jpg
    without the black cover

    IMG_8753.jpg
    I tried pushing that bracket ahead, but no chance it doesn't turn...

    IMG_8755.jpg
    the valve

    IMG_8757.jpg
    the valve's shaft
    IMG_8759.jpg
    Bracket from top...
    #20
  22. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Hmmm. Didn't realise you had a 1.9tdi so the EGR probably works in a different way. However, with that amount of carbon buildup I'm wondering if there is carbon stuck in the parts that move. How did you clean the carbon off?

    Any lights on the dash? I assume you haven't had someone plug in VCDS?

    Seems a bit odd that after taking off the EGR and refitting it the engine turns itself off. Did you unplug any electrical terminal and you haven't plugged it back in? Is there any puff of smoke immediately after starting from the exhaust? On the 2.0TDI's it's normal to clean the anti-shudder valve (below the EGR) and the intake manifold. Not sure where or how to remove these on a 1.9 but if the EGR was that clogged I guess the others will be too.
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  23. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I cleaned the Carbon with Mr.Muscle oven cleaner and it cleaned it really well.

    I didn't run the VCDS because haven't got no one near me to do it and Halfords, the first garage are busy until Monday... and they ask 49£ just to hook up the VCDS...
    The plugs: I took very good care with the plugs,and plugged everything back again, there were just 3: one of the air filter, one from the Egr valve, and one just close to the EGr valve, don't know from which part.

    "Is there any puff of smoke immediately after starting from the exhaust?" Yes there is and a lot!


    I wasn't able to clean the intake manifold because there was a liquid cooling line running and didn't want to mess with it.

    No lights on the dash whatsoever...

    About the anti-shudder valve, is that the one that has a disk that is closing and opening? I cleaned that as well...
    #22
  24. Paul B7
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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    When my EGR failed it was locked solid but the car still started fine but vibrated real bad. I also had the engine management light on the dash illuminate. Like Wrath I can't see why the engine won't start and can but think you have disturbed something ?
    I paid £250 for a new EGR fitted ( I drive a 2.0 tdi) and it now runs like a dream, real smooth with rapid acceleration and no black smoke of which I had plenty.
    Good luck !
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  25. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    But if the Egr is gone, it gives the problem in idle, so I was thinking that it's because it failed...
    #24
  26. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I would have expected lights on the dash if it was a sensor not plugged in but these cars are weird. For it to stop sounds like it might be choking. From memory the EGR should be closed at idle (people please correct me) but it should still start. Equally if it was the turbo then the engine should still start.
    You haven't recently filled your car up with fuel have you? Just wondered if the fuel filter is clagged with dodgy fuel?
    I still can't help thinking something went awry when you put the EGR valve back as the car started before. The anti-shudder valve is the other component probably situated under it with a flap to open and close. Is that stuck I wonder?
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  27. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Also worth checking your air filter just in case that's compounding the problem.
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  28. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I was actually thinking about the fuel filter as well. Before the whole thing started, the fuel light was on and I had about 30 miles with the left fuel and I refilled after that... so... can it be that the filter is full of debris from the bottom of the tank? The flap from the anti shudder valve works, as I tried moving it (though it makes a small squiggy noise). I also cleaned although it wasn't that dirty.

    Would you suggest changing the fuel filter? I have a new one at home.
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  29. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Changed the air filter before fitting everything back together, I was planning changing it next week anyway.
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  30. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    It's one of those problems that could end up being anything. I had problems with my fuel filter last year which came about after filling up at Morrisons. Car was jumpy, jerky and generally felt it was going to stall even at 60mph. Best off replacing that and it could be it's having difficulty drawing fuel and the black smoke is **** in the engine. After cleaning my EGR there is obviously some left over carbon that gets booted through the system and it could be this.
    Ideally finding a member with VCDS would give an indication of anything else as it might be a whole host of things at one time. Not sure where the MAF sensor is on the 1.9, I know the 2.0 is easy to get at provided you have the weird 5-star torx bolts. Check and clean that.
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  31. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Thanks a lot Wrath!
    I will try changing the fuel filter tomorrow and will look over the net, where is the MAF sensor located on my 1.9tdi.
    Will post again tomorrow.
    Thanks for all your advices.
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  32. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Good luck mate. If you can take off the plugs again, give them a bit of a blow and then plug them back in, just see if that helps.
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  33. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Thanks :) I'll need that :)
    Good idea about blowing the plugs, will try that as well.
    #32
  34. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    Just replaced the fuel filter and it started like a clock,perfectly running.
    Took it for a spin,have noticed that the turbo was not working,otherwise no smoke at all even at 3000 rpm.
    went to shell to refill,put Vpower,started the car and it started running bad again as it used to before cleaning the Egr, but this time keeping the idle.
    Tried 1st gear to start,the engine,wasn't able to keep the rpm,and stopped. Tried again and stopped several times... Not able to do 1m,as I lift the clutch,it looses rpm and stops...
    have any idea?
    Maybe the fuel filter and the tank full of junk?

    Left the car at the fuel station,waiting for my friend to pick me up :(
    #33
  35. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    I wanted to do an experiment by comparing the fuel from my old filter and diesel bought at sainsburys (the one that I used to fill the new fuel filter).
    Look what I found:

    IMG_8763.jpg
    Fuel from my filter....

    IMG_8765.jpg
    Fuel from sainsburys bought yesterday...

    I never had problems with the sainsburys fuel, always used them and seen more miles/gallon than BP or Shell...

    Don't know what to think, tried to start the car again, but after, 8sec with engine on, it switched itself off.
    Would you guys think it is the fuel the problem? Or the whole tank?
    What should I do? Take out the fuel filter again and clean it, put new fuel in it and see?

    The turbo not switching would be a MAF sensor problem, or fuel as well?

    Thanks!

    P.s: the blue-ish colour on top of the fuel worries me as well...
    #34
  36. SL11CKK
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    SL11CKK Active Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    You need to check how it is in the tank rather than from the fuel filter.

    Could just be the filter
    #35
  37. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    How can I check the fuel from the tank?
    I've replaced the filter brand new...
    #36
  38. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    Hmmm, well it definitely looks like your old fuel filter was dirty. How full was your tank before the refill? The fact it started after a new fuel filter before it failed again suggests to me, and I may be wrong, that you have something duff in your fuel system. Either dodgy fuel or someone has put something in your tank. That stuff on top of your fuel from the old fuel filter strikes me as odd, is there any chance that could be coolant? Is your coolant level static?
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  39. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    Is that second picture the fuel from the fuel filter? Any sign of liquid on the surface?
    #38
  40. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    The coolant is stable as it was last time I changed the water pump and timing belt (10.000 miles ago)
    I refilled my tank with 30 litres today, but it was with about 10 litres before that.
    I've filled the 10 litres before the problems started and I was on red light prior to that... there were 30 miles until empty tank...
    So don't know if I piked the something duff from the bottom of the tank when the fuel light was on, and then refilled and it took the junk from the bottom of tank and straight in the system...
    Would you suggest looking at the fuel in the filter? See if it is dirty? But how it is possible that with new filter, it clogged so quick, after 3 miles and 30L of new fuel?....

    p.s. I tried starting the car again and know it starts only for 5-6 sec, as before the fuel filter change, when we thought that is was a plug problem...
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  41. iucle
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    iucle Member

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    [Jul 20, 2013]
    The second picture is a comparison normal fuel, not filtered, directly from the pump.
    #40

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