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How do you know which gearbox you have ??

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Fuzzman, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. Fuzzman
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    Fuzzman Member

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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    Here is a Question for You /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Before I begin I would like to thank you all of you input on the DSG and manual gearbox

    But Reading same of your review I and getting a bit confused. Audi also do a tiptronic gearbox. How do you physically know which you have. Both DSG and Tiptronic have D and S and Manual mode but the DSG has paddles "which could be fitted to the Tiptronic". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/book.gif

    I have arranged for a test drive in the DSG this weekend So I will be putting this question to the local dearler.
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  3. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    I've driven a tiptronic A4.
    It's a CVT transmission isn't it ?
    (constantly variable transmission )
    It was awful.

    As I understand it a CVT doesn't have gears as such.
    It uses belts which move over varying sizes of pulleys.

    You know the noise a moped makes ?
    The engine stays at the same pitch as the thing accelerates ?
    That's a CVT.
    That's what the A4 was like.

    The DSG actually changes proper gears,so the engine note rises and drops like a manual car.
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  4. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    Checking on the net,it seems I'm more or less correct.
    The Tiptronic uses different size 'cones' rather than gears.
    So the engine note stays at the same level as you accelerate.
    A strange and,in my opinion,unpleasant effect.
    The rev counter just stays at a fixed point as you sort of 'waft along'.

    Whereas the DSG uses proper gears,so the engine note,and revs,rise and fall according to which gear you're in,like a manual.
    #3
  5. Fuzzman
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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    Thanks Bowfer
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  6. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    Audi do in fact have at least 4 types of gearbox. There is the Multi-tronic CVT box that's fitted to the A4 and I think the A6. The CVT box is only used on longitudinal mounted engines. With the transverse engines as in the A3 there are the 5 or 6-gear manuals, a 6 gear tiptronic 'normal' automatic that is available on the 1.6 and 2.0 FSI models and the 6 gear DSG available on the 3.2 V6 quattro Sport and the 2.0 TDI.
    #5
  7. imported_TuffLittleUnit
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    [Apr 25, 2005]
    Yep, that's the answer. No engine comes with both the tiptronic and DSG variants. So, if you know what engine's in the car and it's an automatic you should be able to determine the gearbox using David's rules above. Note the 2.0T FSI is DSG but the 2.0 FSI is tiptronic.

    The 1.6 FSI and 1.9TDI don't have an auto variant according to the latest Audi A3 price list.
    #6
  8. miketweed
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    miketweed Member

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    Once you've driven a DSG, you will never mistake it for any other slush-matic box again!

    Believe me.

    Also, did you know that Bugatti are fitting a 7 speed VAG DSG to their 8 litre, W16, Quad Turbo, 1000BHP, 750lbft, 4WD Veyron!

    In testing it was the ONLY box that could take the strain and was useable by normal humans.

    Probably the best gearbox in the world......
    #7
  9. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Once you've driven a DSG, you will never mistake it for any other slush-matic box again!

    Probably the best gearbox in the world......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In your opinion.
    Not mine.
    #8
  10. miketweed
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    miketweed Member

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    OK, so maybe its not the BEST 'drivers' automated manual 'box in the world (BM SMG, Ferrari F1 style thingy), but it is the smoothest, maybe too smooth, and most efficient.

    But it is unmistakeable against all other normal autos which, you must admit, are sh*te in anything with sporting intentions.
    #9
  11. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    I haven't driven any other gearboxes of the DSG 'type' to compare.

    All I would say about DSG is that,if you aspire to driving with "sporty intentions" then get a manual and forget all about autos,semi-autos or DSG's.
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  12. miketweed
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    I mean that the cars apsire to have sporting intentions, not the drivers. (hint - SPORTback sport quattro sport sport s-line)

    Not wanting to call any A3 a 'sports' car, as it isn't. I mean something designed to be more accepting of 'press on' driving ie. brakes that don't overheat and suspension that doesn't give you sea sickness.

    Also, the DSG in a free revving petrol engine gives much better results in manual than the diesels where such frequent changes mean the auto-mode often does it better. (IMO of course)
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  13. Fuzzman
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    You are right bowfer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    My sister in-law spock to the old stig and I gave her some question to ask him about the DSG.

    He said that "the DSG is probably the best auto/manual gearbox he had driven but if you what to though the car about then a manual is the way to go"
    #12
  14. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    My sister in-law spock

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Your sister-in-law is SPOCK ???!!!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #13
  15. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ,if you aspire to driving with "sporty intentions" then get a manual and forget all about autos,semi-autos or DSG's.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    True, after all Mr Schumacher has got a nice gearstick and a clutch pedal....oh hang on a minute..
    #14
  16. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ,if you aspire to driving with "sporty intentions" then get a manual and forget all about autos,semi-autos or DSG's.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    True, after all Mr Schumacher has got a nice gearstick and a clutch pedal....oh hang on a minute..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If my DSG reacted anything like as quickly as MS's,I wouldn't be complaining.

    I experienced the dreaded 'DSG lag' this morning again.
    In manual mode,I approached a junction and stopped.Someone coming down the road flashed me out,so I waved and floored the pedal.

    Nothing...
    Still sitting there,with me hand up..
    Waving...

    VRRRROOOM !

    The guy who flashed me out must have been saying "oh COME OOON" to himself.
    #15
  17. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ,if you aspire to driving with "sporty intentions" then get a manual and forget all about autos,semi-autos or DSG's.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    True, after all Mr Schumacher has got a nice gearstick and a clutch pedal....oh hang on a minute..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And he obviously dosen't have ABS either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #16
  18. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    All I can say is it must be the way you drive. I regard myself as a quick driver and frequently get annoyed with other drivers being so slow and dithery, but I never have problems with my DSG. I know I am driving a Diesel and drive accordingly. Bouncing it off the rev limit is not the way to drive a car with a diesel engine. Sounds to me like your bought a car with the wrong engine and the wrong gearbox for the way that you drive.
    #17
  19. imported_DSGSport
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    I drove a Ferrari 360 recently at Thruxton. It had a paddle shift box and it was appalling. I know this seem harsh but (I believe) its ££ over the manual and it is overly aggressive on the up change but very smooth on the down. I would say that the DSG is miles better than the Paddle box in most cars but defiantly in the 360
    #18
  20. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    Explain the 'DSG delay' when you floor the throttle then David.
    I'm not the only one that has mentioned that.
    Someone else started a thread about that only last week.

    I admit I should have bought a manual,but that doesn't mean my criticisms of the DSG are unfounded.

    It's not beyond criticism.
    #19
  21. Japper
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    All I can say is it must be the way you drive. I regard myself as a quick driver and frequently get annoyed with other drivers being so slow and dithery, but I never have problems with my DSG. I know I am driving a Diesel and drive accordingly. Bouncing it off the rev limit is not the way to drive a car with a diesel engine. Sounds to me like your bought a car with the wrong engine and the wrong gearbox for the way that you drive.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ditto, I must echo Dave R comments. Firstly it's a diesel not a GTI. If you drive at 10/10ths all the time then your missing the strengths of a diesel, i.e. torque - low down. I press on when the mood takes me and never have a problem having tussles with your hot hatch brigade.

    Oh, and other than D mode I have never had hesitation either.

    Just my opinion, and not meant to offend.
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  22. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    Don't get me wrong, the DSG could be a lot better but you have to understand that it isn't a manual gear box and drive it differently.

    And why are you stopping at junctions...amateur /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #21
  23. Fuzzman
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  24. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    No offence meant


    [/ QUOTE ]

    None taken Japper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    I do object a wee bit to being made to feel that the problems there are with DSG are peculiar to me when others have mentioned them though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Eeef expressed his frustration at the automatic upchange in manual mode and a.n.other expressed problems with the 'DSG delay'.

    So I know I'm not alone,or mad ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    I do say I can see why some people love DSG but this is a public forum and it's only right and fair that people thinking about DSG get a balance of opinions.

    After all,everything I read about DSG was 'glowing',so I didn't think the fact I couldn't get a manual S-line sportback diesel would be a big deal.
    #23
  25. Japper
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Don't get me wrong, the DSG could be a lot better but you have to understand that it isn't a manual gear box and drive it differently.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Correct, and DSG is widely acclaimed as the best of the sem-auto's. Audi's manual gearbox is not /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #24
  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    I don't find the DSG delay as you call it a problem. I very rarely use D except in a traffic queue. Most of the time I use the tip-tronic mode. I quite frequently pull out of junctions or roundabouts smartly without any problems. Sometimes when I pull out, the change from first to second comes up so quickly, I let the DSG handle the change when it hits max revs. The same applies to second to third and then I handle the changes using tip-tronic after that.

    I have driven a 2.0 TDI with a manual gearbox and did not personally like it at all. Far too much use of the clutch necessary. It was OK with my previous 1.8T Sports because of the high rev band but not good on a diesel.

    The DSG may not be perfect but then neither is the manual box. I know which I would rather have to use.
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  27. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]


    Eeef expressed his frustration at the automatic upchange in manual mode and a.n.other expressed problems with the 'DSG delay'.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is my major gripe about the box, and when Forge look at the software i'll be first in the Q.

    When you talk about delay, do you just mean from stationary, or on the move as well?
    #26
  28. Japper
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]


    Eeef expressed his frustration at the automatic upchange in manual mode and a.n.other expressed problems with the 'DSG delay'.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is my major gripe about the box, and when Forge look at the software i'll be first in the Q.

    When you talk about delay, do you just mean from stationary, or on the move as well?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The only time I witness a delay is when pulling away from a standing start in 'D' mode. It can sometimes take a while fot DSG to engage clutch after you release the brake. Same can happen in reverse gear too. I dont have a problem with this cause 'D' mode is wafting along lazy git mood mode and as such I am in no hurry. In manual mode it just goes.

    Just to add, DSG does learn your habbits and so being positive and definate with the throttle imputs does seem to get the best from DSG.
    #27
  29. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    When you talk about delay, do you just mean from stationary, or on the move as well?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    From stationary in all modes,and on the move in 'D' mode.

    I must have looked like a right twat this morning,with the guy flashing me out and me sitting there with a full second's delay until something happened.

    I can't actually remember if that was in manual or 'S' mode (I suspect manual),but I know for a fact it wasn't 'D' as only the wife gets to drive it in that mode.

    For the record,my other complaints are (god this will upset some folk...)

    Changes up for you before the red line (already mentioned)

    Won't change down because it thinks I'm going too fast.(I'll bloody decide!)

    Doesn't change as quick as I can manually (even in manual mode there's a wee bit of 'slurring' in gearchanges)

    The 'blip' can make downchanges a bit jerky.

    Pleeeeeeease don't chase me up to the castle with pitchforks and torches... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush2.gif
    #28
  30. h5djr
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    At junctions I tend not to press hard on the brake pedal but allow the car to just keep try to 'creep' a little and then as soon as I move my foot from the brake to the accelerator, away it goes with no hesitation. First is already engaged and waiting for more power input.

    When on the move the change in tip-tronic happens in a split second and with full power on in the case of up changes. Down changes at speed are a little slower as the software blips the revs as it changes down.

    I do feel that it takes a little while to adjust you driving to the DSG, but once that's done it's a please to use.
    #29
  31. Japper
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    Bowfer,

    Doesn't change as quick as I can manually (even in manual mode there's a wee bit of 'slurring' in gearchanges)

    I know what you mean, but if you measured the time it takes you to come off the gas depress the clutch while changing gear and letting clutch back out again, I say no way jose' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    It also lets me change down, and did today hitting 4300 revs. I dont want it to allow me to drop it and fly off the rev counter. With a manual if you change down to too low a gear by mistake, when your letting out the clutch you immediately realise and depress clutch immediately. The DSG drops the clutch immediately and does not have the function of being able to feather it.

    No box is perfect, and each has their strengths, the skill is being able to adapt to these
    strengths.........who the fook said that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #30
  32. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    "No box is perfect.... who said that" - Jack (in the box) !
    #31
  33. Japper
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    [Apr 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    "No box is perfect.... who said that" - Jack (in the box) !

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Lol...that's only 'cause his head was too big.
    #32
  34. djoblong
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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    What does everyone think of the manual gearbox BTW? When someone mentioned there is slurring, does that mean they think it's not quick enough to change gears? This is my 50th post I think. Now a junior. A red letter moment, to be sure.
    #33
  35. Amchlolor
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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    What does everyone think of the manual gearbox BTW? When someone mentioned there is slurring, does that mean they think it's not quick enough to change gears? This is my 50th post I think. Now a junior. A red letter moment, to be sure.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Haven't tried a manual A3,but my manual A4 didn't have a nice gearchange,and it got worse with age.
    Started off notchy and ended up feeling like something was worn.

    I mentioned 'slurring' of gearchanges on the DSG.
    What I find happens,even in manual mode is as follows.

    1.You ask the car to change gear.
    2.The revs 'stick' for a few moments while the gearbox obviously 'thinks'.
    3.The gearbox then changes gear in a 'slurring' manner,kind of like what happens if you take your foot off the clutch too slowly in a manual car.

    It's definitely not the split second type of gearchange to hear in rally/race cars,where the revs just 'fall' suddenly into the next gear.

    Hard to explain in words !
    #34
  36. brandona4
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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    My manual is fine. Quite clunky but then it is holding the force of a 3.2!

    If you open the window you clan hear it clunking away. But nonetheless, still worth it as it makes the 3.2 an animal to drive IMO!
    #35
  37. h5djr
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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    Bowfer - it's interesting what you say about the 'slurring' manner in the way the DSG changes. Following our discussions I have been paying particular attention to the way mine actually changes and when changing up with power on I find with mine that it is the 'split second type of gearchange' where the revs just fall suddenly into the next gear you describe. Changing down is a little slower whilst the engine matches the revs.

    Strange how two copies of the same gearbox can give such different impressions or actual results. How old is you model. Perhaps Audi have changed the controlling software in some way. I know that some of the early DSGs in TTs had some software problems and they have now been 'sorted'. A mate of mine has a 3.2 TT and his behaves just the same as mine. Perhaps the software is somehow different between the 3-door A3 and the Sportback. It would be interesting to let you drive mine to see if you found it the same as yours, but Aberdeen is quite a way from me.
    #36
  38. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    It's about 3 weeks old David.
    I wish I could relay how mine changes gear.

    I expected it to be;

    BRRRRRRRM (change) brrrrrrrmmm

    Mine is more;

    BRRRRRRM (change) BRRRrrrmmm

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    In musical terms,it's like the difference between a guitar player fingering two different notes or sliding down the notes.

    Get me drift ???
    #37
  39. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    Yes I think I see what you mean. Mine is definitely the 'fingering two notes'. My A3 was new in July 2004. I've done about 11500 miles so far. It's an SE rather than a Sport but I wouldn't think the software setup is any different. Unless it's different in some way on the later models. I shall have to have a word with my dealer and see if thay have a Sportback DSG I could drive and see if I think it feels any different.
    #38
  40. Rankrotten
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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    The DSG on my 3.2 Sport has a somewhat lazy change in "D" but a snappier zing, zing change in "S" and "M". Remember that it is a fly-by-wire throttle with no physical linkage to the engine and it does not reward light pressure on the go pedal in "D" which only succeeds in slowly increasing the engine revs and changes gear in a slightly sloshy way. Don't pussyfoot but instead mash the pedal when pulling away from junctions and overtaking - or better still use "S" or manual mode for instant response and gearchanges.
    Blip, blip, zing !!
    #39
  41. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 27, 2005]
    You say you have a 'nagging wife'. Does she nag you about your driving ?
    #40

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