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how do i know if my sub enclosure is to small ?

Discussion in 'In-Car Entertainment' started by bigblokey0, Mar 4, 2007.

  1. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 4, 2007]
    at the mo the subs and the whole boot vibrate badly ive had to remove the tool box the cd changer the warning triangle and the holder along with anything else thats not bolted down however the sub enclosure is the maximum size of the boot would it be best to port them to help with the vibration
    #1
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  3. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 7, 2007]
    defininately not !!!

    youw would be better spending a little time and effort using a product like dynamatt
    which is specifically designed for reducing panel vibration from in car stereo systems
    then make sure the system and everything surrounding if fixed down firmly

    if you know which sub you have (photo or description) and the amplfier your using i can tell you how big the box should be and how ideally it should be boxed
    sealed,ported or infinite baffle

    sealed is most accurate and easiset to build ported uses a bigger box is louder than sealed but is very precise in its measurement in both box size and port length
    #2
  4. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 7, 2007]
    is dynomatt exspensive and how much of it would i need ?

    i have two 15" kicker comps a jbl grand touring amp (cant remember what power they got) and a powercap pics in my gallery i had the same setup in my vec but the box was bigger because it had a bigger boot and it sounded sweet (deffo competition level) but with a smaller box it just rattles the car to bits so much so the bolts holding the boot catch had rattled off
    #3
  5. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    a bulk kit of dynamatt will be around £100 bit is sufficient to do the entire boot area and the front doors which will also require work

    the powercap is totally worthless and will actually do more damage than good
    you would be better buying either a second battery or uprating the alternator to increase the charge going into the original

    the kicker comps will EACH need around 1.8 cu ft to 2.6 cu ft of internal volume sealed to stand any chance of sounding half decent
    this will need to be very well made and free from air leaks

    1cu ft + 12"x12"x12" = 1728 cu inches which is 1 cu ft

    you need to measure the INTERNAL diameter of your box in inches
    and multiply the distance in inches together to
    height x length x depth
    this should tell you whether or not the box is big enough for normal use
    if the box is an irregular shape work things out in squares first then triangles
    for a trinagular shape simply masure the internal as if the box where square then divide by two

    for proper competition use you would only use one sub and two amplifiers
    not two subs and one amp
    your system may well be loud but it will not be anywhere near competetion level

    trust me im a competetion judge !!!
    #4
  6. icecavern
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    icecavern New Member

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  7. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    Just looking at the pics in the gallery and I'd say that enclosure is way too small for 2 x 15" subs. Absolutely no need for 2 subs in any car let alone slow droney 15 inchers. A well designed enclosure with a single 10" unit and lots of power will sound so much better. Remember the enclosure is just as important as the sub, if not more so. You can't just throw any old subs into a box built to the restrictive dimensions of your boot and expect it to sound good.
    #6
  8. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    "the powercap is totally worthless and will actually do more damage than good"

    how is this are power caps not designed for this job when i wired the cap up you could tell the difference straight away more power and better sound


    "Absolutely no need for 2 subs in any car let alone slow droney 15 inchers"

    this depends on the music you listen to surely if i listen to fast punchy music then a 10" i would have but i bought the 15" for more bass


    "the kicker comps will EACH need around 1.8 cu ft to 2.6 cu ft of internal volume"

    "1cu ft + 12"x12"x12" = 1728 cu inches which is 1 cu ft"

    so what would be the perfect size 13"x13"x13" ?

    thanks for the input greatly appreciated ill go out and mesure my box now and get back to you with the measurement cheers
    #7
  9. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    ok just measured the box and going by the calculations it seems my box isnt deep enuff however i remember that i made it as big as i could any bigger and it wouldnt fit in the boot (i need it to be removable) how can i get around this problem ?
    #8
  10. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    hiya pete :nyah:

    bigblokey
    basically
    the power cap in your system in itself needs to get power from somewhere ,the only place it can get power is the battery
    however the cap can discharge power quicker than it can charge it
    so in actual fact all the cap does is present itself as another load for the battery and alternator to deal with instead of just the amplifier
    as said you would be much better with either another battery or an upgraded alternator

    since you do not have enough internal volume for the two subs id suggest you used one in the correct sized box and power it correctly use the proceeds from the second sub to help with this

    andy mac
    its a common misconception that a 10" sub is actually quicker than a 15" sub there actually the same
    the cones both resonate at the same speed to produce any given note but the bigger cone usually has more mass
    have a look on the adire audio site they have all the technical stuff that proves the subs are both the same speed the only differance in a fifteen and a ten is the tuning of the person listening to it
    #9
  11. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    how would i wire another battery to the amp ie how would it get charged
    #10
  12. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    big blokey

    an enclosure size of 15"x15"x15" INTERNAL DIAMETER will give an ENCLOSURE size of 1.95 cu ft which is adequate for one 15" subwoofer
    if you wished to fit both you simply double the size to
    30"X15"x15" whch will give you a 3.9 cu ft enclosure

    this is internal dimensions do not forget to add the width , height and depth of whatever material you are using for the enclosure
    i would reccomend either marine ply or good old mdf to make the enclosure in no less than 18mm for the main box and double the thickness for the front baffle 36mm where the speakers mount
    using anything thinner will cause the box to flex and you will lose potential output
    #11
  13. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    "bigger cone usually has more mass" i.e. is slower QED
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  14. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2007]
    mass is not the only variable andy
    theres also xmax as the bigger speaker has more cone area it has less way to travel to create a note with the same intensity
    basically lower mass has to travel further to create the same intensity of note
    so the smaller speaker has less weight but has further to travel
    hence why they equal each other out and neither is quicker than the other
    #13
  15. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 14, 2007]

    its allright saying that but the opening of the boot aint big enuff to fit a box that size
    #14
  16. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 14, 2007]
    You obviously need to build the box in situ, or rebuild the car around it.
    #15
  17. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Mar 14, 2007]
    I think a lot depends on the quality of the sub, I had a Cerwin Vega stroker 12 in the boot of my old car and it was very punchy, but didn't last, it blew the voice coil and the amp was nowhere near on full capacity.
    IMO 15" subs are OTT, 2 12's are more than enough for most cars. You might find you will get beter bass if you make an air passage from the enclosed boot space to the car's interior.

    Sell the 15's and buy a 12 or 2 10's. I have 1 10" JL sub in my boot and it kicks the **** out of my car, I can't see a thing out of my rear view when its pumping and thats more than enough.

    Don't forget to have a play around with your crossover settings because each setup is different.
    #16
  18. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 15, 2007]

    think is i need the box to be removalable
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  19. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2007]
    Sorry, that wasn't a serious suggestion, really must start using smiley faces
    You don't have to use those precise dimensions just as long as the overall volume is retained, so make it shorter but deeper.
    #18
  20. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 15, 2007]

    ive had two twelves in my last install and allthough they sounded good i wanted more bass if your happy with one 10" sub then fair enuff but i want to feel the music
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  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2007]
    You can't feel the music with two 12's? You either had **** subs/enclosure/amp or you really need to seek medical help.
    Unless you are going purely for competition SPL there is absolutely no need for 2 x 15" subs in the average saloon.
    #20
  22. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 16, 2007]
    have you ever had 2 12s or 2 15s ?

    with my 2 12s you could feel the music ie.you could feel your hair moving your back and legs vibrating and with 2 15s i get even more you say theres no need to have 2 15s in an average saloon says who ? didnt realise there was a rule
    #21
  23. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 16, 2007]
    No I haven't as there's absolutely no need, (I've heard enough systems in other peoples cars to work that out).
    It's obviously all dependent on the quality of the subs/enclosure/amp. You can get exactly the same effect with 2 good 10" subs, without needing to go larger. I would look at the quality of the components and especially the enclosure before just assuming you need bigger drivers. e.g. if you need more horse power in your car you don't necessarily have to fit an engine with a bigger capacity.
    #22
  24. reza
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    reza Member

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    [Mar 16, 2007]
    2 x 12" subs should be more than enough if they are set up properly. I used to own a MK2 Golf which had 2 Pioneer 12" subs and they were really bassy. So much so that on the right song, you could put keys on the roof and they would easily bounce around like crazy. Don't see why anybody would need more bass than this IMO.
    #23
  25. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 16, 2007]
    its all down to personal preference from my experience ie. the cruise scene meets and shows ive heard a few installs which is why i chose to go bigger theres no way 2 10s setup right can sound better than 2 15s setup right ??????
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  26. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Mar 16, 2007]
    honestly?
    If you removed the rear seats in your car so the sound actually made it unimpeded into the cabin, you'd probably find the 10's gave better response, due to there being less mass to move, they can move at a faster rate.
    Size would equate to a lower frequency being able to be reproduced, but much below 40hz is pretty academic really.
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  27. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 16, 2007]


    mass is not the only variable
    theres also xmax as the bigger speaker has more cone area it has less way to travel to create a note with the same intensity
    basically lower mass has to travel further to create the same intensity of note
    so the smaller speaker has less weight but has further to travel
    hence why they equal each other out and neither is quicker than the other
    #26
  28. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Mar 17, 2007]
    each to their own as they say!!
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  29. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 17, 2007]
    "each to their own as they say!!"
    its a fact not a preferance

    there is a big differance between QUALITY and QUANTITY

    for QUALITY i personally would use one single woofer ten or twelve makes no odds as long as its in phase with the rest of the system
    for pure spl then i would use one single 15 or 18
    for street bass or QUANTITY i would use multiples of 10,s or 12,s as there natural resonant frequency is more susceptible to the human ear

    big blokey wishes more quantity than quality as opposed to most other people in this thread
    #28
  30. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 17, 2007]
    ive only got 2 15s its not like ive got four of the things lol

    whats spl ?
    #29
  31. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2007]
    sound pressure level
    #30
  32. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 19, 2007]
    ive taken the advice from you guys and i have made one box for one 15" sub the dimensions are 15x17x18" is this to big i think it comes up at 2.65625Cu/Ft will that be ok ?
    #31
  33. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    its just a tiny bit too big (so i would put something solid inside which will not compress under pressure ) make sure you fix it down though
    powered correctly it will give marvellous extension and hit the really really low notes
    #32
  34. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    how much to big shall i shorten the box by an inch or just screw some more mdf inside
    #33
  35. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    ive just found this info out about the sub

    500 watts max output
    250 watts RMS rated
    15" high powered competition series subwoofer with grille
    Mounting Depth: 7-3/8"
    Rec. Sealed Box Dims: 2.25 - 5.00 cu.ft.
    Rec. Ported Box Dims: 3.00 - 4.00 cu.ft.
    Free Air Usage: yes
    Sensitivity: 90.2 dB
    Frequency Response: 25-500 Hz
    Impedance: 4 ohms


    according to that i can go up to 5 cu ft
    #34
  36. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    Well I think you've nailed the problem right there
    250wrms for a 15" sub?? It's obviously a piece of garbage.
    I can't find a decent 10" or 12" sub that's less than 1000wrms.
    So maybe you should fit four of them to make up the shortfall!
    #35
  37. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    ouch!!!
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  38. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    hoffmans iron law !!!
    effiecency,small enclosure or ability to drop pick any two but you cant have all three
    #37
  39. bigblokey0
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    bigblokey0 Member

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    is this riddle time?
    #38
  40. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 21, 2007]
    "So maybe you should fit four of them to make up the shortfall!"
    That wasn't a serious suggestion, blimey humour by-pass or what?
    #39
  41. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Mar 22, 2007]
    When you only really meant fit three:p
    #40

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