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Hill Hold

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by rxs1407, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. rxs1407
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    rxs1407 Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    Just been out in the car and for the first time since having it found something i don't like.
    Being an old Volvo driver, you stopped on a hill with an auto and the car held it's self or went forward.

    My new A3 rolled back and scared the **** out of me.... So is this normal?? Do you have to have the "Hill Hold" feature to stop this????

    Now i could sit there with the brakes on and i'm sure this is safe and all that, but never thougth auto gearboxes could go backwards when in "D"??

    Not impressed by this.
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  3. Castro
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    Castro New Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    I specced hill hold on my new S tronic so when the car is on an incline it actually creeps very slowly forward. TBH I was not happy that this basic function should be an "extra".
    #2
  4. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    I don't have 'hill-hold' on my new A3 Sportback with S-tronic and mine tends to creep forward when starting on a slope rather than going backwards. My previous A3, again with a DSG (S-tronic) was the same. I hold mine use the handbrake exactly the same as I used to when driving a manual gearbox car. Release the foot brake after engaging say 'D', then release the hand brake and drive away with no tendancing to go backwards.
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  5. rxs1407
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    rxs1407 Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    Maybe i'm use to the Volvo, but today i was not on a steep hill, but when i was sitting there and took my foot of the brake, it did creep forward slightly. Then it started to roll backwards, so i braked, was tempted to see how far it would go back..

    Our Jeep is the same as the Volvo, i just can't believe to stop this you have to buy an option..
    #4
  6. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    I have it on my new S3 and I was taken by surprise by it too...

    Here is me thinking it would hold on the incline until you moved forward but after a few seconds the brakes are released rolling you back! Its a bit of a waste of time really because it requires you to sit on a hill with the footbrake on all the time something which i dont do even after a spirited drive as I dont fancy pressing them hot pads againt the discs for a long period of time!
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  7. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    glad I didn't spec hill hold on mine... a good footwork clutch/gas will do for me...

    Pedro
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  8. S3Didge
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    S3Didge Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    Well i didn't spec it but i'm very glad i have it, marvelous feature!

    I thought it was very odd at first but soon realised the purpose.

    never need to hold the car on the clutch anymore, handbrake if necessary other than that lift off the brake no danger of rolling back into the car/van that's parked right up your chuff - Brilliant!

    I like it!
    #7
  9. rxs1407
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    rxs1407 Member

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    Does anyone know if this can be fitted after market??
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  10. HeliChris
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    HeliChris Learning to fly 3D

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    [Mar 31, 2007]
    If you are getting your brakes to the temps that are needed for you to take precautions on applying the pads to the disc, I have but one question, have you TWOC ed it ;)

    Normally these type of temps mean you are running very close to boiling the brake fulid and losing all braking. The best and only solution to the onset of this problem is to then drive without using the brakes at all, to bring the temps down. Stopping does not cool the brakes, they need air flow over them to do this. Then once braking has returned then stop and don't apply the pads to the disk surface, this includes the handbrake to prevent disk warping.

    Track Day S3 I assume :)

    Chris.

    PS There are brake fluids around from Castro that prevent the onset of boil by a couple of hundred degrees, but expect to pay over £100 for the fluid alone.
    #9
  11. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    well the DSG is alittle different ofrom other autos as when pulling off the clutch engages prgressively, ie, when you release the brake there is no drive at first and then it just gradually bites in adn starts to roll you forward - ive been on a few hills and although when you take ur foot off you do roll back ever so slightly once the clutch engages it holds it and starts to creep you forwards - even uphill - i think the brake pedal switch is used byt the gearbox to engage and diengage the clutch when pulling off so in effect the brake pedal is acting as a dual pedal brake and clutch - this is also apparent when you are in D, switch esp off put your clutch foot on brake pedal then you can rev the engine (while in D) and you dont move, however release the brake pedal and the clutch engages and you go
    #10
  12. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    Yeap, the same applies to the engine, when you stop the engine it actually rises in temperature slightly as water pump is off and no air flows through the radiators. That's why it is very important to let the turbo cool down in the last miles and eventually let the engine run for 30sec after a hard run to let the cooling system cooldown the turbo... before switching off the engine.

    Pedro

    P.S.: I hardly use handrake at all, only when parking on an inclined road...
    #11
  13. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    Tell that to my mate who parked his car on a slope after a fairly fast run and came back after only a short time to find his car touching the BMW in the next parking bay!
    #12
  14. Plank
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    Plank Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    Some of the above posts sound like a basic lack of understanding of how DSG works to me!
    #13
  15. MarcQuinlivan
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    MarcQuinlivan Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    IF you RTFM it tells you that the Hill Hold feature is designed to keep the brakes engages tomporarily when they are released after being held on. This is to allow you sufficient time to get your foot on the throttle after releasing the brake pedal. It is not supposed to hold the car stationary while stopped on a hill.

    There is a manual option for this where you use the handbrake to hold the car on a hill, then bring up the revs before releasing the handbrake to pull away. :)
    #14
  16. stevec
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    stevec Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    Actually its not the case for modern turbo engines, when you stop you car after a run go around to the front of the car and listen. You will hear a wine that runs on for about 20 minutes or so after the ignition is turned off. The sound is a pump that pumps the oil around the turbo to cool it. This feature has been around for a while, its on my 8L S3 and I expect its on all turbo cars from VAG.
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  17. stevec
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    stevec Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    Spot on. I spec'd it as it holds the brakes for a couple of seconds so you don't have to rush into the two foot shuffle when pulling away up a hill. It stops you rolling back into the car behind; for some reason almost everyone these days seem to stop directly behind you in traffic actually inside your boot....
    I figured that for around £75 it seemed a good idea on a £33K car!
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  18. rxs1407
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    rxs1407 Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]


    Does anyone know if this can be fitted after market??
    #17
  19. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2007]
    plank - explain yourself!! cos your post didnt make much sense to me
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  20. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 2, 2007]
    Whilst the DSG seems to creep forward in the same manner as a regular auto, the "effect" isn't as strong. A regular auto will still roll back if on a sufficiently steep gradient and thus a DSG car will roll back on a lesser gradient.

    Frankly I don't understand why the DSG should creep at all as there's no torque convertor and thus no technical need for it to do so. I reckon they've made it do this deliberately as this is the behaviour people expect from an "auto", even though the DSG isn't actually an auto at all.
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  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 2, 2007]
    Hill starts are always a constant source of annoyance and I wish I'd spec'd the hill start option too,but I don't remember it being an option back then.
    Maybe it was,I dunno.
    I've yet to find a successful way of hill starting my car without looking like a spaz learner.
    There's one route I avoid now because of it.
    I can't be done with the rolling back and forth,or the delay in engaging the clutch when I do want to go.
    The revs rise,the clutch finally engages with a bit of a shunt and off I go wheelspinning like a clown...
    #20
  22. stevec
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    stevec Member

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    [Apr 2, 2007]
    Ha - ha! LOL you crack me up. Fantastic.

    Have the same problem too... When you use the handbrake it looks just as stupid when the cars weight rocks back and forth whilst you take it on and off. Just can't win...
    Its even worse in a nice motor as you look more stupid as everyone is watching you as they fancy owning the car, but not when they see you being a plonker driving it. I figure 75 quid is worth looking a little less daft!
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  23. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Apr 2, 2007]
    So I suppose with DSG hill hold is a must have! I did't specced with my S3 but I should be alright with my manual gearbox...

    Pedro
    #22
  24. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    Do you need to be on a certain gradient of hill befor the hold function works?

    Just mine sometimes does not hold on slight inclines...
    #23
  25. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    Do you know you have it ?
    I know you think you have it,but is there any tangible sign ?
    A button or something ?
    #24
  26. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    well i was driving up the multi-story the other day at work and the guy in front stopped right at the top meaning i had to stop mid slope and id say it was a good 25-30° - and my DSG held fine - i actually thought the hill hold would be a waste of money for this reason.
    #25
  27. MarcQuinlivan
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    MarcQuinlivan Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    i think it kicks in if the car has been held on the brakes for a period of time while stationary. i don't believe there's any sort of gyroscopic device to detect if a hill is present.
    #26
  28. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    What,it just sat there ?
    No forward movement or rolling back at all ?
    Your car must behave different from every other DSG car I've driven then and god knows I've driven several just to make sure it really is **** and it wasn't just my car... ;-)
    #27
  29. OutLore
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    OutLore VOIP Dude

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    At the end of the day, as we have discussed at length previously - the DSG or S-Tronic is not an auto box as such, it is a manual box with an automatic clutch.
    (NB: We are all aware that DSG/S-Tronic has some more "auto" features than some drivers like. Let's not start another DSG bashing thread)

    Because of this, it needs to know when to start to drive - this is signified by the release of the brake pedal. As the drive take up is going to take some time, even with the small clutch packs used (not a conventional clutch) there will be an amount of movement rearward (if facing uphill)

    I don't remember it being a problem - and I don't think I have ever thought that someone couldn't drive because they rolled back slightly before pulling away. If someone is that close behind you, even if you hit them it is still their fault (legally) as they should have left adequate room between them and the car in front.
    #28
  30. MarcQuinlivan
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    MarcQuinlivan Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    If you will open your manuals to page 143 it reads as follows:

    *applies to vehicles: with hill hold assist.
    Driving away on a slope

    The hill hold assist function makes it easier to drive away on a slope.

    The system is activated when you press and hold the brake pedal for a few seconds.

    When you release the brake pedal the braking force will be maintained for a moment in order to hold the vehicle and make it easier for you to drive away.

    Warning
    • If you do not drive away immediately after releasing the brake pedal the vehicle could start to roll back. You should therefore immediately press the brake pedal or apply the handbrake.
    • If the engine should stall you must immediately press teh brake pedal or apply the handbrake.
    • If you are driving away on a slope in stop-and-go traffic press and hold the brake pedal for a few seconds before driving off. This will prevent the vehicle from rolling back unintentionally.
    Note
    To find out whether your vehicle is equipped with the "hill hold assist" function please contact an Audi dealership or qualified workshop.
    #29
  31. OutLore
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    OutLore VOIP Dude

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    Very precise technical term that, lol
    #30
  32. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    Rolling back always makes me think "mmm...dodgy driver",as does those who have the back of the car going down before releasing the handbrake,like a dog preparing to have a ****.

    That description of hill hold makes me think it wouldn't help me much,as it looks like it only covers you for prolonged stops.
    #31
  33. Gti Jazz Blue
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    Gti Jazz Blue Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    From what I can gather it isn't a straight forward upgrade to retrofit it. The Ross-Tech Wiki lists the different versions of the ABS system it isn't a coding change but rather a different module.

    You MAY be able to retrofit it by changing only the ABS ECU from a damaged car that had it installed.

    That is just a quick look around btw.

    Paul
    #32
  34. rxs1407
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    rxs1407 Member

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    [Apr 3, 2007]

    Paul,
    Can i ask what this is???? Ross-Tech Wiki
    Thanks




    No worries did a search and found it...
    #33
  35. Gti Jazz Blue
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    Gti Jazz Blue Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 3, 2007]
    #34
  36. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [Apr 4, 2007]

    I know I have it as its worked previously and the options list says my car has it, just does not seem to be working on slight inclines which made me think they may be some sort of spirit level to detect the car is not level.

    There is no button for it to turn it on or off.
    #35
  37. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Apr 4, 2007]
    yes bowfer - i can sit on a gradient of between 25 and 30° in D and the car sits there and does not roll back. It may well be there has been various changes with the DSG system since your car was built, for example, the diesel now has launch control whereas you say yours does not. With mine when you take your foot off the brake there is hardly any drive then suddenly you get quite a pull forward as the drive begins and as i said before i think it is the brake pedal which passes the info to the gearbox to release the clutch.
    #36
  38. OutLore
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    OutLore VOIP Dude

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    [Apr 4, 2007]
    So you can confidently say that you have never rolled back accidentally?(your present DSG car excepted)

    Judging someone elses driving skills on you seeing them roll back a little once is a bit harsh.... anyway if you are concerned about it, don't sit up their ar5e in traffic :hi:
    #37
  39. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Apr 5, 2007]
    Did some of you actually pay money for the hill hold feature? Just goes to show that some idiots will buy anything if it's on the options list:wtf:

    I didn't spec hill hold on mine, and was amazed when it came with a nifty little handle to the left of the drivers seat which did the same function!
    #38
  40. MarcQuinlivan
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    MarcQuinlivan Active Member

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    [Apr 5, 2007]
    yeah, I never saw the need for it either. Not sure about the UK, but over here a hill start is on the driving test, so if you can't do it, in theory you shouldn't be on the road.
    #39
  41. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [Apr 5, 2007]
    Well don't think i qualify to be a idiot, but it was already specced on mine.
    #40

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